Ernies Massive Irish 1930's to 2005 Photo Archive

[Irishswissernie]

Could be used for either I think as it has grills for air circulation etc which livestock would need.

[Robert Shrives]

Garfield, 

A quick goggle stroll did not help with  definitive answer but one pic of a an old LBSCR referred to an even smaller compartment as a dog box.   The BR vans had full height fodder compartments   but I cannot see a label in any pics - such is life. 

On the Ffestiniog Railway we have a guards van with a dog box - albeit this now used for electrical stuff ! 

Happy Sunday

Robert   

[Broithe]

3 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

A couple more from the latest batch.

The horse box is interesting as it appears to have 2 compartments for different sized animals. At the left a dog box pig/young calf maybe.

The Highland Railway used to tie a calfs legs in sacks and give them to the guard to look after. (The whole calf not just the legs!)

@Mayner used the term 'dog box' here :-
 

 

[Mayner]

The compartment with the sloping roof was described as a "dog box" by Padraic O'Cuimin in his IRRS paper on MGWR Coaching Stock in the early 1970s, the final design of MGWR was more conventional in outline with a full height tack compartment replacing the dog box. 

Before the invention of the motorised horsebox in the 1920s & 30s  horses and hounds would have been transported by passenger train to hunts and equestrian events in different parts of the country, similarly horse drawn carriages and wagons would have been transported by carriage truck.

[jhb171achill]

It might be added that many hunts were still carrying horses into the early 1960s. As late as perhaps 1962, large numbers of horseboxes were still on CIE's books. Lord and Lady Dunraven loaded them on trains on the North Kerry, while Ballsbridge siding, Fairyhouse, Curragh, Naas and various other places saw trains of them.

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 5:05 PM, mphoey said:

its funny to think that myself and swissernie have bid against each other over hundreds of irish negatives over the last 20 or so years on ebay

we have cost each other hundreds if not thousands more then negs should have cost and all in the sake of keeping collections in ireland

Martin, I think you should pay Ernie compensation of £5000, and he should pay you compensation of £5000. That would sort it all out.

[jhb171achill]

14 hours ago, Garfield said:

I thought it was a kennel, but I stand to be corrected on that.

For hunting dogs. Too low for hay. And the groom travelled in the little compartment on the right originally.

[Broithe]

7 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

It might be added that many hunts were still carrying horses into the early 1960s.

Crikey! That would slow them down and give the fox a sporting chance...

[mphoey]

9 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

It might be added that many hunts were still carrying horses into the early 1960s. As late as perhaps 1962, large numbers of horseboxes were still on CIE's books. Lord and Lady Dunraven loaded them on trains on the North Kerry, while Ballsbridge siding, Fairyhouse, Curragh, Naas and various other places saw trains of them.

Martin, I think you should pay Ernie compensation of £5000, and he should pay you compensation of £5000. That would sort it all out.

ebay should pay us all compensation for not allowing them to be sold for free

 

[Irishswissernie]

A couple more today contrasting the shortest (Coach wise) passenger train to the the longest (mileage wise) service

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[Garfield]

Fantastic photos, Ernie.

I'm curious to know what the box on the end of the six-wheeler is - the one to the left, just under the lower step.

[jhb171achill]

2 minutes ago, Garfield said:

Fantastic photos, Ernie.

I'm curious to know what the box on the end of the six-wheeler is - the one to the left, just under the lower step.

Acetylene lighting thingy, I believe 

[Garfield]

3 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Acetylene lighting thingy, I believe 

Cheers, JB! No warning labels back then... 

[Galteemore]

Wonderful period pieces in different ways. Lovely view of the F6 2-4-2T as well.

[jhb171achill]

8 minutes ago, Garfield said:

Cheers, JB! No warning labels back then... 

Not at all! 

Senior watched someone walk straight into a hole in the ground at dusk in a railway yard in England when he was District Engineer in the LMS.

Checklist:

1. Barrier round the hole: no

2. Signage near the hole: no

3. Lighting: no

4. Notice to railwaymen working in the yard: no

5. Verbal warnings by supervisory staff, or the men digging the hole: no

6. Staff on hand to guard hole, or warn unsuspecting other staff: no

7. Advance circular to yard staff and shunters regarding the digging of said hole: no

As for the man who fell into it and injured his leg:

1. PTS: no

2. Torch: no

3.  Day-glo or otherwise bright clothing: no

4.  Steel-capped boots: no

5.  Advance safety briefing: no

 

........to our younger readers, be very, very aware of this; you live in an age where the concept of trade unions is increasingly, and very wrongly, a dirty word.

Without such, people would still be expected to work in these conditions.

 

 

[Broithe]

Me - working on a circuit breaker in a substation in Middlebrough in the mid-80s - putting strain gauges on the new porcelains of a breaker they had broken by mis-operating it manually, but were trying to blame us for...

Unable to interpret all the different coloured barriers, cones and flags, I asked the bloke with the brand new Safety Officer" jacket and multiple clip-boards - "Is the cabinet completely Off?" - "Yes." was his answer. 

To be fair, I was as bothered about electrical interference overwhelming the gauge signals as I was about getting a belt.

I negotiated the chicane to approach the cabinet, started to make a few connections and got a mains belt up my arm.

Investigations showed me that the cabinet heater supply was still live.

I counted to ten and returned to the Safety Officer - "You told me the cabinet is completely off" - "It is." - "I've just had a 240 belt off the heaters" - "Oh, we always leave the heaters on" - "Well, you can turn everything completely off, tell me when you have done that, and you can make a note on one of your clip-boards that, if I find a volt on anything in there, then I am going to kill you!"
 

 

[Edo]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

 

 

........to our younger readers, be very, very aware of this; you live in an age where the concept of trade unions is increasingly, and very wrongly, a dirty word.

Without such, people would still be expected to work in these conditions.

 

 

I think JHB, that times are going full circle and , unions, are again being appreciated as the pendulum is hopefully starting to swing back toward the centre as young people are starting to realise that you have to fight for your rights in this world.

Speaking as a person who has worked in both union and non union environments..........its the balance between extremes on both sides is what works...........there is an awful lot to be said for the German model of a degree of consensus and common sense than the adversarial version in the anglosphere.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Edo

[Galteemore]

4 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

A couple more today contrasting the shortest (Coach wise) passenger train to the the longest (mileage wise) service

 

 

Hope you don’t mind, Ernie but was inspired to put my F6 in similar pose! 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Galteemore

[Edo]

Looks fab GM

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Broithe said:

Me - working on a circuit breaker in a substation in Middlebrough in the mid-80s - putting strain gauges on the new porcelains of a breaker they had broken by mis-operating it manually, but were trying to blame us for...

Unable to interpret all the different coloured barriers, cones and flags, I asked the bloke with the brand new Safety Officer" jacket and multiple clip-boards - "Is the cabinet completely Off?" - "Yes." was his answer. 

To be fair, I was as bothered about electrical interference overwhelming the gauge signals as I was about getting a belt.

I negotiated the chicane to approach the cabinet, started to make a few connections and got a mains belt up my arm.

Investigations showed me that the cabinet heater supply was still live.

I counted to ten and returned to the Safety Officer - "You told me the cabinet is completely off" - "It is." - "I've just had a 240 belt off the heaters" - "Oh, we always leave the heaters on" - "Well, you can turn everything completely off, tell me when you have done that, and you can make a note on one of your clip-boards that, if I find a volt on anything in there, then I am going to kill you!"
 

 

Well said!

[BSGSV]

On 7/13/2020 at 12:54 PM, jhb171achill said:

Acetylene lighting thingy, I believe 

I would have thought oil gas, but I can't see a reservoir under the solebar, but it is dark. 

Some thief seems to have been at work too. A "3" is missing from the loco and the left most signal appears to have no arm.

Seems a surprising amount of weeds about too, for 1953. 

 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, BSGSV said:

I would have thought oil gas, but I can't see a reservoir under the solebar, but it is dark. 

Some thief seems to have been at work too. A "3" is missing from the loco and the left most signal appears to have no arm.

Seems a surprising amount of weeds about too, for 1953. 

 

The West Cork branchlines did indeed seem weedy even then. Low speeds co tributes to its closure, as the track was for many years not as well kept as one might expect even on the main line. 

I’ve seen a picture taken near Skibbereen of a train in late GSR days even, out on the line, and the track looks like the Loughrea branch in 1975. 

Senior’s opinion of the track on the whole West Cork system was that not much of it was fit for much more than 45 / 50 mph - and that’s before were talking about axle-loading.

No less than seven miles of the CLIFDEN line’s track was used in West Cork, second hand, after it was lifted in 1938. That doesn’t say much for what was there before.

Acetylene contraptions which looked a bit like that were used on some of the northern narrow gauge stock.

The missing “3” on the door - that was an old Bandon carriage, with (County Donegal style) just one compartment at each end.

The door without a “3” is one of the central double doors into the van part. 

[Galteemore]

The 3 on the loco is painted on steel plate (welded over the hole where the original GSWR cast plate was) so not really a temptation for the light fingered.  A quick glance at post 1950 pics shows that the yellow numbers were often hard to make out. A photo of 33 by Colin Boocock at Rocksavage - c1956 -shows her quite shiny, and numbers clearly visible. 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Galteemore

[BSGSV]

19 hours ago, Galteemore said:

The 3 on the loco is painted on steel plate (welded over the hole where the original GSWR cast plate was) so not really a temptation for the light fingered.  A quick glance at post 1950 pics shows that the yellow numbers were often hard to make out. A photo of 33 by Colin Boocock at Rocksavage - c1956 -shows her quite shiny, and numbers clearly visible. 

 

My original comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but still, only one digit readable. Aside from the plate you mention, the bottom of the tank also looks like it has been patched too.

JHB's comments on the West Cork track suggest the seeds of closure were sown a long time before it happened. 

[Galteemore]

In fairness I did wonder how serious a post it was.....having spent more time than I care to think of studying photographs of the class for my build of 42 — yet noticing errors on its completion- my humour antennae in this area are probably a bit blunted!

The large plate patches are common across the class for some reason - probably added when the waisted smokeboxes were replaced, and the numberplates removed.

8 minutes ago, BSGSV said:

My original comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but still, only one digit readable. Aside from the plate you mention, the bottom of the tank also looks like it has been patched too.

JHB's comments on the West Cork track suggest the seeds of closure were sown a long time before it happened

Edited July 15, 2020 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

13 minutes ago, BSGSV said:

My original comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but still, only one digit readable. Aside from the plate you mention, the bottom of the tank also looks like it has been patched too.

JHB's comments on the West Cork track suggest the seeds of closure were sown a long time before it happened. 

Indeed - it was make do and mend a long time ago, a bit like the current policy on providing a "service" on Limerick - Waterford red the Nenagh branch. One only has to look at the clapped out rolling stock that ran in West Cork from even mid-GSR days until the railcar set arrived, and then it was only on the Bantry line, and ran but twice a day.

I misread the original post, which referred to a "3" on the loco, not the door of the coach.

You can just about make it out - it's got worn off.

[Irishswissernie]

Track maintenance improved slightly later in the 1950's and also the line that 33 and its coach is standing on was not the main running line and platforms for Bantry & Skibbereen (on the right) but rather the loop line along the island platform for Clonakilty C213 below is on a through train from Clonakilty in 1959. One other point is that the signal at the far left isn't missing its signal arm, it was situated beyond the footbridge and the arm is hidden by the bridge side footpath fence.

The shot of 470 was said to be at Clonakilty Junction but it isn't. I checked for photos in WE Shepherds CBSC book and there is a broadly similar view on page 85 taken from the footbridge described as Ballineen but it also is wrong. Finally I checked the OS 25 inch map for 1903 which confirms it as at Drimoleague 

Keeps me busy!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[Mayner]

On 7/15/2020 at 2:30 AM, jhb171achill said:

 

Senior’s opinion of the track on the whole West Cork system was that not much of it was fit for much more than 45 / 50 mph - and that’s before were talking about axle-loading.

No less than seven miles of the CLIFDEN line’s track was used in West Cork, second hand, after it was lifted in 1938. That doesn’t say much for what was there before.

 

I have a copy of the 1960 CIE WTT.

Senior seems to have been spot on: 40mph was the line limit for loco hauled trains on the Cork-Bantry main line Clonakilty and Skibbereen sections, while railcars were allowed maximum of 50mph on the straights.

Apparently speed seems to have been restricted mainly by the lack of super-elevation or cant on curves, than the poor state of the track passenger traffic seemed to play second place to goods traffic on the West Cork in CIE days.

In my experience although there is a veneer of safety in the rail industry, things have not changed a lot from the days your father was a District Engineer on the LMS.

As a health and safety inspector I once persuaded a railway operator to shut down re-modelling work on the approach roads to a large intercity terminal, because of similar problems to those observed by Senior while working on the LMS in England.

The disturbing thing was that workers were allowed to work in dangerous conditions despite daily safety audits by 3 different Departments. 

Each department had a siloed mentality and although there was high level planning there was little co-ordination at site level, and were blind to the risks they created for each other.

Although the job was audited daily by the Civil Engineering (CE), Signal & Electrical (SE) & PW Departments, there was no shortage of paperwork & PPE, no one seemed to realise that CE and S&E operations were creating highly dangerous conditions for the PW workers pre-fabricating the new trackwork and the guys on site apparently accepting these conditions as a matter of course.

Luckily no one was killed or hurt, the voluntary shut down avoided the adverse publicity for the railway of a trip to the Courts, it took two weeks to re-open the job.

When I got back to the Office the main concern was the Chief Executive would be unable to go home by train as he thought I had shut down the station.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Mayner

[WRENNEIRE]

Nelsons Pillar in the background

 

[BSGSV]

On 7/15/2020 at 11:33 AM, Galteemore said:

In fairness I did wonder how serious a post it was.....having spent more time than I care to think of studying photographs of the class for my build of 42 — yet noticing errors on its completion- my humour antennae in this area are probably a bit blunted!

The large plate patches are common across the class for some reason - probably added when the waisted smokeboxes were replaced, and the numberplates removed.

Oh goodness, no! I meant no slight on your work and I'm very sorry if that's how it appeared.

[BSGSV]

23 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

One other point is that the signal at the far left isn't missing its signal arm, it was situated beyond the footbridge and the arm is hidden by the bridge side footpath fence.

I have to say sorry to you too. I'm afraid the comment re the missing "3" and signal arm was intended to be jokey, but clearly didn't work.

[Galteemore]

1 hour ago, BSGSV said:

Oh goodness, no! I meant no slight on your work and I'm very sorry if that's how it appeared.

Never thought that for one moment and in any case a forum is a good place to learn how to up my game! No need to apologise at all ....one of the occupational hazards of being a railway enthusiast is that one can find an unfortunate intensity of focus catching one rather unawares and displacing humour in the process. In a recent wagon build I was literally counting the rivets myself....

Edited July 16, 2020 by Galteemore

[Irishswissernie]

45 minutes ago, BSGSV said:

I have to say sorry to you too. I'm afraid the comment re the missing "3" and signal arm was intended to be jokey, but clearly didn't work.

No offence taken, I am only partially sighted and the signal comment came in quite handy as whilst searching for a photo that showed the position and state of the signal more clearly it led to me discovering that the 470 view stated to be Clonakilty Junction was in fact at Drimoleague.

Today we shall head north to the top bit of Ireland:

 

 

[airfixfan]

Never seen a photo of that bridge raised before!

[Irishswissernie]

Here are 3 more views of the bridge taken at the same time.

Also a view of CIE crew Sleeping Car 224A on the Baltinglass Fair Train 15 March 1959 JG Dewing. There are some other antiques in the train including at the far left a van which appears to have had its end walls removed.

 

[Noel]

4 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

Here are 3 more views of the bridge taken at the same time.

Also a view of CIE crew Sleeping Car 224A on the Baltinglass Fair Train 15 March 1959 JG Dewing. There are some other antiques in the train including at the far left a van which appears to have had its end walls removed.

 

 

Great images. Would love to see a photo of the counter weight mechanism. Does that bridge still exist. Might sail under it some day heading for Lough Neagh.