Early Cravens

[richrua]

Just finished some big work so ordered a couple of Early livery Cravens as a treat for meself. I cant wait. they will be my first murphy coaches.

[popeye]

You won't be disappointed, they look so good.

[Noel]

Just finished some big work so ordered a couple of Early livery Cravens as a treat for meself. I cant wait. they will be my first murphy coaches.

 

They are superb. Enjoy.

[DiveController]

Yup, I have a rake of them. Very nice models!

[The Derry Road]

richrua, enjoy your coaches when you get them, very nice coaches they are, in either livery. I run a rake of 6 in early livery and 6 in the later one as the notion takes.TDR

[Railer]

They are great models and really capture the shape of the prototype very well indeed. They ran in mixed livery formations right up to 1995/6. One in the old livery was even at the end of the iconic Yankie railtour NIR 201 double headder.

[richrua]

Can't wait now! Pleased with the reports here folks. They are coming up from Marks in Dublin any day now! The exchange rate is doing me a few favours at the mo

[Junctionmad]

all we need now is a supply of park royals and laminates and mix all them up in a rake . lovely jubly

[Noel]

all we need now is a supply of park royals and laminates and mix all them up in a rake . lovely jubly

 

Nearly there, just waiting to respray two old Hornby LMS coaches into pretend 'Laminate' Black'n'Tan livery. Two Cravens, one PR, one laminate, one GSV behind a black 141 and into CIE 1960s heaven on some rural line. The Cravens and 141/181 seem the pinnacle of MM excellence.

[richrua]

Cool. I love my couple of 141s. What generator van should be run with cravens ?

[Noel]

Cool. I love my couple of 141s. What generator van should be run with cravens ?

 

You have a good RTR choice from Silverfox (BR Mk1 GSV or Dutch GSV) and Irish Freight Models (Bulleid heating van) and others for kits. Personally I like the Black'n'Tan dutch GSV slightly weathered. It looks right at home with a short rake or 2 or 3 cravens. For longer rakes the BR Mk1 GSV might be more prototypical.

[Garfield]

Cool. I love my couple of 141s. What generator van should be run with cravens ?

 

Any steam heat van, really (e.g. Mk1 or Dutch van).

 

For longer rakes the BR Mk1 GSV might be more prototypical.

 

Dutch vans could also be found on such rakes... it really was more a matter of what was on hand.

[richrua]

Cool thanks

[Railer]

It was common to see a 141 with a single Craven and a Mk1 GSV on some branch lines right up to the IE era. Great for small layouts and or limited space while still being realistic.

[WRENNEIRE]

I have to say, an early liveried Craven (or Cravens) behind a black 141/181 with the white lines just looks the dogs

A GSV with the single stripe at the back just doubles the dose

[DiveController]

I have to say, an early liveried Craven (or Cravens) behind a black 141/181 with the white lines just looks the dogs

A GSV with the single stripe at the back just doubles the dose

Absolutely agree!!

[Weshty]

Enjoy them, never was a coach more welcome as they are quite unique.

Back in the day prior to their availability, I contemplated building a Worsely Works one, but the Model Rail article on building it scared the bejaysus out of me.

 

Hence Paddy's release was very welcome, and very very good.

[RedRich]

One of the finest 00 coach models from any manufacturer. It looks right and that's one of the key features of any model.

 

Rich,

[josefstadt]

You have a good RTR choice from Silverfox (BR Mk1 GSV or Dutch GSV) and Irish Freight Models (Bulleid heating van) and others for kits. Personally I like the Black'n'Tan dutch GSV slightly weathered. It looks right at home with a short rake or 2 or 3 cravens. For longer rakes the BR Mk1 GSV might be more prototypical.

 

The early liveried Cravens (single white stripe) are all modelled in post conversion to TL condition - i.e. without battery boxes. As such they would not have run with the 4 or 6-wheel heating vans, only with GSVs, either the Dutch Vans or the ex-BR vans. To run them with models of the earlier type vans the underframe equipment on the models would need to be changed. That having been said, they are indeed lovely models.

[richrua]

 

 

They arrived fresh from Inchicore. (Er...Marks). Oh yesssssssss

[richrua]

Don't tell the missus. new toy.

 

[Broithe]

"Ah, that's been here for ages".

 

 

Most unlikely that she's noting the numbers down.

[richrua]

Nope. Best thing is she absolutely cannot climb a ladder. Even one step. Total fear. And All my stuff is in the attic.

[jhb171achill]

Richrua, I defer to your genius! (And that of your architect)

[Noel]

Don't tell the missus. new toy.

 

I too have sinned

 

Let she who is without new shoes cast the first stone at 7078.

[burnthebox]

Nope. Best thing is she absolutely cannot climb a ladder. Even one step. Total fear. And All my stuff is in the attic.

 

 

I have to say that's not looking too good for my plans for my shed any good

[josefstadt]

I have to say that's not looking too good for my plans for my shed any good

 

Build the shed on stilts with ladder access. Say it's in case of flooding!

[Railer]

And earthquake proof.

[jhb171achill]

I misread the title "early Cravens".... but a thought occurred to me.

 

If we run Cravens with black'n'tan locos, remember they can only be in the original livery - ie no orange above window level or white below, as the first instances of the newer version were over ten years after the very last loco was repainted in supertrain, let alone IE livery. Also, a sleek uniform rake of Cravens was almost never seen - if at all. Pre supertrain era, whether main line or branch, all trains were composed if a multiplicity of different types of carriages; a random glance at a photo of one six-coach set shows just one Craven. Its companions are a Park Royal, 32xx series brake genny, and three laminates of two different types.... That was absolutely typical.

Edited May 14, 2015 by jhb171achill

[Noel]

I misread the title "early Cravens".... but a thought occurred to me.

 

If we run Cravens with black'n'tan locos, remember they can only be in the original livery - ie no orange above window level or white below, as the first instances of the newer version were over ten years after the very last loco was repainted in supertrain, let alone IE livery. Also, a sleek uniform rake of Cravens was almost never seen - if at all. Pre supertrain era, whether main line or branch, all trains were composed if a multiplicity of different types of carriages; a random glance at one six- coach set shows just one craven.

 

Just a curiosity, it seems strange to hear early livery 141s referred to as Black'n'tan which more accurately describes the early super train livery (i.e. 50/50 of each colour like the coaches). The early 141s were basically black with a white stripe and a thin tan stripe, but basically they were overwhelmingly black, or black with white stripe. I understand everybody refers to them and the early A class as B&T, but B&W seems clearer.

 

Yes the early single white strip cravens are the coaches to run behind the early 141s and as you say in a mix with laminates, PRs and odds and ends. I love that livery and the era because you can mix an match old coaching stock and short, medium and long trains all look right. Throw in short luggage vans, TPOs, heating vans and you can smell the 60s.

[jhb171achill]

Yes, the vans were another issue indeed - even a few old GSWR six wheeled full brakes survived in traffic until the late 60s.

 

I see your point about livery descriptions. The "golden brown" as CIE rather curiously described it officially, was of a more "tan" shade than later orangey shades, especially post-1990; these themselves having been the subject of considerable debate on these boards with relation to Mk 3 coaches.

 

The earlier livery was indeed mostly black, and on many locos in the sixties it was literally all black bar white flashes on the ends - in other words, no tan at all. Equally, a few A's and C's had this with yellow ends.

 

If "Black'n'tan" is taken as the 1960s livery, this distinguishes it from the "Supertrain" livery of post 1972. From 1987, apart from the addition of the white lines, we have "tippex" or "IR" livery - this is generally taken to mean the 1987- early 90s period, during which the "tippex" white lines were added - the nickname coming from Inchicore painters, and the IR "Set of Points" logo as now applied to 146 at Downpatrick. By the 90s, the "three pin plug" logo appears and we have "IE" livery!

 

So - 1962-72 "Black'n'tan"

1972-87 "Supertrain"

1987-90s "IR / Tippex"

Edited May 14, 2015 by jhb171achill

[DiveController]

Don't tell the missus. new toy

078 arrived yesterday. "That's lovely, honey"...........so I guess I'm luckier than most

[Junctionmad]

I presume you play the female trick of telling her you got it in a sale. ! Only 50 euros honey !!!

[josefstadt]

To amplify what JHB was saying about the variety of coaching stock used in trains, the train involved in the 1980 Buttevant disaster (the 10:00 Heuston to Cork) was composed of locomotive 075 with 3191 (GSV - Introduced 1972 - converted from 1951-built British Rail brake corridor second), 1145 (First - Introduced 1964) 2408 (Buffet Car - Introduced 1953), 2412 (Cafeteria Car - Introduced 1976 - converted from 1953-built buffet car), 1491 (Standard - Introduced 1958), 1529 (Standard - Introduced 1964), 1527 (Standard - Introduced 1964), 1508 (Standard - Introduced 1963), 1542 (Standard - Introduced 1964), 1541 (Standard - Introduced 1964), 1365 (Standard - Introduced 1953), 1935 (Brake Standard - Introduced 1976 - converted from 1954-built composite).

[jhb171achill]

Indeed, josefstadt: quite a mixture, and including the RPSI's unique 1508!