Dugort Harbour

[David Holman]

Somebody's been busy with a static grass machine, methinks. Love those things.

Looking good!

[Noel]

Oh yummy wow. Fabulous concept and execution. Enjoy 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Noel

[Mayner]

Nice subtle modelling of the stone walls and platform edges. 

Will Dugort Harbour feature the corrugated iron buildings like the Kenmare and Valencia lines or brick and stone like the Achill & Clifden branches?

[jhb171achill]

30 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Nice subtle modelling of the stone walls and platform edges. 

Will Dugort Harbour feature the corrugated iron buildings like the Kenmare and Valencia lines or brick and stone like the Achill & Clifden branches?

Corrugated iron mostly. I’ve a small goods shed half built and the main station will be loosely based on that at Caragh Lake, Co. Kerry.

Signalling will be very minimal; based in Valentia Harbour, which in latter days appears to have had nothing but a home signal.

The turntable road will be disconnected as shown, with the pit filled with old ballast and rubbish, just as some were.

In the long run this could possibly be resurrected.

The period will be the end of the grey/green era, and dawn of the black’n’tan era, 1955-65.

Edited November 12, 2019 by jhb171achill

[popeye]

I think it would be nicer with the turntable in place especially if you have steam loco's calling in.

[Mayner]

The Midland Railway Center http://www.midrailcentre.com/4mm-scale-00-em-p4 & Brassmasters https://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/various/architectural-kits/ 42' or 50' turntables would be ideal for Dugort Harbour. 

 

[patrick]

Turntables survived at Fenit and Listowel until the mid to late sixties so why not Dugort Harbour?

[Irishrailwayman]

53 minutes ago, patrick said:

Turntables survived at Fenit and Listowel until the mid to late sixties so why not Dugort Harbour?

Some turntables survived beyond steam because of the need to turn 121 single cab locomotives!

[jhb171achill]

8 hours ago, popeye said:

I think it would be nicer with the turntable in place especially if you have steam loco's calling in.

It would. But getting an automated one made specially was, for the moment anyway, a bit pricey. The idea is to make the place look as if it's on its last legs, and ready for its pre-closure repainted!

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, patrick said:

Turntables survived at Fenit and Listowel until the mid to late sixties so why not Dugort Harbour?

 

41 minutes ago, Irishrailwayman said:

Some turntables survived beyond steam because of the need to turn 121 single cab locomotives!

Indeed.

Others were filled in too!

I do have several 121s ordered, so it did provide a bit of a dilemma on that score!

The hypothetical setting is that this place isn't far from the real terminus, a nearby large town. Think Westport Quay or Valentia Harbour - there would be a terminus nearby with loco she'd, full facilities.

Any steam loco venturing "out to the Quay branch" would be there and back within 45 minutes. Westport Quay lost even its water column (in a working sense) years before even steam stopped going there.

The idea us to create a sense of open space, as the actual layout is of necessity quite small.

A future extension is a matter for submission for planning permission to the Dept. Of Domestic Matters at some appropriate future stage!

[Broithe]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Others were filled in too!

The corpse is still visible at Ballybrophy.
 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Ballybrophy,+Station+Road,+Co.+Laois/@52.9022733,-7.5977112,98m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x485d1de566149483:0x2600c7a819babb41!8m2!3d52.905614!4d-7.6190334

[murrayec]

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

The corpse is still visible at Ballybrophy.

That looks fairly intact, the deck seems to be there n all?

Eoin

 

[David Holman]

Not many Irish termini did without turntables, though Westport Quay and Valencia are two. JB doesn't need me to tell him this however!

 Anyone following my own turntable adventures will know they are neither cheap nor easy, but once they are available again the Kitwood Models versions seem well worth a look. Decent website too.

[Galteemore]

I suppose one way of explaining such a long overgrown turntable in 1963 would be to use the Athlone analogy. Fully equipped separate stations existed prior to the 20s, built by 2 railway companies, the GSWR passenger station being  downgraded to goods only by the GSR. In similar vein, under the GSR the separate pre-amalgamation facilities at the Harbour may have been considered a luxury with alternative loco handling equipment a mile or two away. Cue an overgrown turntable and roofless shed....

Edited November 13, 2019 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, Galteemore said:

I suppose one way of explaining such a long overgrown turntable in 1963 would be to use the Athlone analogy. Fully equipped separate stations existed prior to the 20s, built by 2 railway companies, the GSWR passenger station being  downgraded to goods only by the GSR. In similar vein, under the GSR the separate pre-amalgamation facilities at the Harbour may have been considered a luxury with alternative loco handling equipment a mile or two away. Cue an overgrown turntable and roofless shed....

Yes. The whole idea, as you'll see when weeds and so on are added, is a place very much like the places I mentioned above, or Whitehead when I first saw it about 1969. Buildings that look half abandoned and weedy track. It could have a look of 1970s Castleisland too.

The idea is to use the small space to try to create visual space. To try to be artistic in the scenery, giving a sense of scenic openness as far as possible.

Initially I had simply planned a shunting layout with a pile of Mr McAllister's excellent wagons - it would be like Castleisland or Ardee were while goods-only. But I couldn't resist some of the SSM and Worsley coaches, and of course just one or two Cravens. And I've a couple of excellent tin vans from our colleague "down under". So there has to be a sparse passenger service. Maybe it'll only be GAA or pilgrimage specials. The place sleeps otherwise!

Given that if prototypical, it would simply be a 4 or 5 mile extension beyond the terminus of a secondary route (North Kerry, Mallow-Waterford or Cork-Skibbereen, the loco shed and turntable would probably not have been used for many years, as most trains into the place were just short workings from "town".

Maybe I over-think the setting, but I'm probably not alone on that! I like a setting to be either absolutely factually accurate, if of a real place, or if necessarily fictitious, based on how it most likely would look if real.

 

 

[jhb171achill]

It's been three years since me last confession......

Dugort Harbour has remained in Baseboard Dave's pending completion of this attic; this also following a house move.

This has caused a rethink. The initial layout was designed to be nothing more than a small shunting terminus, with a track plan loosely based on Westport Quay, albeit with a passenger service. It would be operated by two 00 Works J15s, a "Mayner" G2, and as things progressed, other steam engines in 1950s mode, with some nasty diseasels appearing in the form of a couple of "C"s and "A"s, and if ever a high-quality B101 appears, mayyyyyybe. 

In 1960s mode it would be operated, as such a prototype would in real life, almost totally with 141s, the odd 121 appearing.

However, now it has a larger room following a house move over the winter, but a sharp curve at one end which was necessary to fit into its old house in Dublin south, but unnecessary here, so extension is possible as will be seen from attached video.

The carpet went in today, so I can tell Dave that it's all systems go now!

I had devised a design which would have had the original (already built) terminus, with a second station, then a larger fiddle yard; thus two trains could cross at the interim place.

However, elements elsewhere have revived my long-standing interest in things 3'6" gauge, be they Indonesian or South African, and a very nice kit of a SAR 6J may be had; my colleague in things South African is putting this together for me now.

Thus, I am tempted to have two smaller layouts instead of one bigger one. One would be Dugort Harbour, the other being somethings-Dorp or somethings-Fontein! Like Dugort, it would be a small rural terminus and fiddle yard.

The jury's out; meantime I look forward to the arrival of Dugort Harbour! I will post more in due course.

Meanwhile, here's the "man-cave":

IMG_7709.MOV

[Mayner]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

However, elements elsewhere have revived my long-standing interest in things 3'6" gauge, be they Indonesian or South African, and a very nice kit of a SAR 6J may be had; my colleague in things South African is putting this together for me now.

Thus, I am tempted to have two smaller layouts instead of one bigger one. One would be Dugort Harbour, the other being somethings-Dorp or somethings-Fontein! Like Dugort, it would be a small rural terminus and fiddle yard.

The jury's out; meantime I look forward to the arrival of Dugort Harbour! I will post more in due course.

Meanwhile, here's the "man-cave":

IMG_7709.MOV

Jonathan

I picked up my ears at your 3'6" gauge interests.

What gauge scale and gauge are you using for your SAR Models?

New Zealand modellers tend to use S Scale on 16.5mm gauge (OO/HO) or 9mm on O Gauge for 3'6" gauge models, while Australian 3'6" modellers have been unable to agree a common gauge and scale with each state going its own way S on 16.5, OO & HO on 12mm used in different states.  

OO is closer to scale for Cape Gauge, than British standard gauge or Irish Broad Gauge.

 

[jhb171achill]

21 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Jonathan

I picked up my ears at your 3'6" gauge interests.

What gauge scale and gauge are you using for your SAR Models?

New Zealand modellers tend to use S Scale on 16.5mm gauge (OO/HO) or 9mm on O Gauge for 3'6" gauge models, while Australian 3'6" modellers have been unable to agree a common gauge and scale with each state going its own way S on 16.5, OO & HO on 12mm used in different states.  

OO is closer to scale for Cape Gauge, than British standard gauge or Irish Broad Gauge.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Jonathan

I picked up my ears at your 3'6" gauge interests.

What gauge scale and gauge are you using for your SAR Models?

New Zealand modellers tend to use S Scale on 16.5mm gauge (OO/HO) or 9mm on O Gauge for 3'6" gauge models, while Australian 3'6" modellers have been unable to agree a common gauge and scale with each state going its own way S on 16.5, OO & HO on 12mm used in different states.  

OO is closer to scale for Cape Gauge, than British standard gauge or Irish Broad Gauge.

 

H0 scale, with more authentic 12mm gauge (H0m / TT) gauge track.

Its close to scale, and while I did have 009 in the past, I find that just a bit small now.

I think that to me, H0 scale on H0 track, to represent "Cape" gauge, looks even worse than Irish 00 stuff on 00 gauge track instead of 21mm!

The SAR stuff will be Scalecraft, Precision / DJH, and SARM stuff.

For a branch, all I need is a 6J, maybe two, a brake composite and a V brake van, a handful of bogie opens, and vans to carry grain, cattle and fruit traffic. Maybe a water tanker or two. Long term a DJH 19D if the money's ok.....

[David Holman]

Sounds splendid. For me, there's a lot to be said for smaller projects - they are easier to complete, there is still plenty of interesting operation/play value and you can indulge in more than one fantasy. If you do get bored with one, build another!

 

[Rob]

On 6/4/2021 at 10:50 PM, jhb171achill said:

Meanwhile, here's the "man-cave":

IMG_7709.MOV

Great update-  look forward to seeing more updates

I can't view the 'man cave' clip-  must be some issue on my end-  just keep getting an error-  l will have to just imagine

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

Great update-  look forward to seeing more updates

I can't view the 'man cave' clip-  must be some issue on my end-  just keep getting an error-  l will have to just imagine

It’s actually my end, I think. I’ll give it another go!

 

 

[DART8118]

Nice space, easy access and good height.  Enjoy it.

[Noel]

On 19/1/2018 at 7:53 PM, jhb171achill said:

Yes, Tony; and I was beginning to doubt that he existed until these two Mayner vans arrived today. I had not seen JM Design products up close and personal before. Photos suggested they were by good indeed; having seen these two (one "suitcase" and one "hot water bottle" ='luggage van and heating van), I wouldn't call them "good" any more; "excellent" is more appropriate.

I await future Mayner stuff with great interest!

By the way, I'm after another luggage van if anyone has one to spare - ideally filthy silver or green!

Wow I get vertigo just looking at that. Would you not consider risking orange or yellow stuff instead?     

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

Wow I get vertigo just looking at that. Would you not consider risking orange or yellow stuff instead?     

Everything I have is green, grey or black’n’tan!

[Edo]

15 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

It’s actually my end, I think. I’ll give it another go!

 

 

IMG_7709.MOV

Fantastic Space - enjoy Jon!

[jhb171achill]

So, an update, with background.

I moved house last autumn. Lurking in a well-known premises in Edenderry was "Dugort Harbour", a small terminus in a setting of both scenic and operational similarity to the likes of Baltimore, Valentia Harbour or Westport Quay. Space was limited to about 11ft x 3ft max, at the end of a room. The train would leave, vanish into a tunnel and appear in a small fiddle yard. Trains would be short one or two coach things, or a short Loughrea or Foynes type mixed. 

So, delivery from Edenderry was paused, pending the new house, with the probability that once in, it would be installed in one of the bedrooms.

Enter, stage left, PJ the loft conversion man. Long story short, there's now an attic room which I posted a vidjo of the other day. This is a much bigger room, with planning permission from the Domestic Authority for a full possession of it. I attach below a very rough sketch; the longest wall is 19ft, and the other two 14ft each. I know, I know, metrication.... bear in mind, O Younger Folk, that I went to school in the north, where distances are still measured in quarts, and time is measured in perches and roods; AND it was almost sixty years ago, when blue steam engines..... enough!

I've heard comments before about how house moves interfere with layouts to the extent that a perfect one for one house simply will not satisfactorily fit into a new one; now I have that issue. Had Dugort Harbour not been started, I would now have it an entirely different shape, but it is what it is, so I have had to arrange the way the attic room will be with its current state in mind. Luckily that's do-able, so once it is delivered I'll show pics to illustrate what I mean.

So, the plan now is to extend it. Due to initial space constraints it was designed with a run-round loop which could barely hold four bogie coaches and a van, although a local train rarely reached that length anyway, so all good there. Thus, in extending it, there's no point in any other station being much longer, as a train despatched from there to Dugort would not not fit in the platform.

I wanted to apply a broad principle that "less is more". Artistically, we've seen the superb results achieved by some of the layouts that feature here regularly which are set in rural locations. What makes these look so realistic is as much - if not more - the wide embankments, hedgerows and sparse "clutter" (as opposed to the necessity of this in an urban setting) - as the accuracy of locos and appropriate rolling stock.

I want to show a rural setting of the mid-50s to late 60s period, with enough steam engines to operate the entire thing with steam only, and realistically. Thus, I do have enough steam engines to operate the whole thing, but also for a later period, A & C class diesels, finally 121 and 141 types. Anything later I'm not interested in personally.

Carriages similarly; from a few old wooden bogies (and six wheelers eventually), and some laminates and Park Royals and appropriate vans - the point being that the whole layout can be operated as if it's 1956, 1963, 1966, whatever.

Such a terminus will have looked very shabby indeed, the sort of place where  if you turned up there you'd be compelled to wonder how long more before CIE would close it. This, of course, makes one scenic item simpler; it's easier to put weeds on a platform than convincing-looking people!

Looking at the plan below, you can see that the train will leave Dugort and head round a sharp curve - this is necessary due to the shape of the room and is just over 2'6" radius - sharper than I'd like, but it'll have to do. Childhood layouts were 6' x 4', thus a curve of under 24" radius. It then travels along a nine-inch-wide "shelf" along the wall, which will be in open countryside, before rounding a curve at the left-hand bottom corner of the drawing, into a somewhat busier "Castletown West".

This is suppose to be a bit like Skibbereen or Cahirciveen. It's a terminus in a way, but the Dugort bit was a Balfour extension in the 1890s, aimed at traffic which never materialised. Now it's a bit of a backwater.

The purpose of this is for variety in operation. Moving on to the fiddle yard at the top right, which is meant to represent the "Big Shmoke" (Cork or Dublin), a main line train leaves there, heads to Castletown, which is somewhat inspired by Westport, or Newcastle West, or the two south-west destinations above. When it arrives, a branch train takes over and toddles off down somewhat indifferent track to Dugort, which might have been about four miles away.

This will allow a Woolwich to arrive at Castletown in the steam era, and a dirty J15 takes over for the branch train. However the goods will work straight through - two more dirty J15s (I've three). In diesel days, a similar working pattern with an A on the main line passenger, a C on the branch, and 121 / 141 types gradually taking the passenger over and displacing the A to the goods.

So we have operational variation, but not too much clutter; the whole thing will look rural.

I will keep posts updated as it develops, if anyone's interested. It's going to be a challenge, as it's years since I've done anything this big. Some I'm doping myself, but I've had to "sub-contract" other stuff.

I haven't mentioned the red lines on the diagram, nor the green rectangle yet.

The fiddle yard has these red tracks too. They are 12mm gauge, of H0 scale 3'6". This will enable me to develop a small adjacent layout to indulge my interest in South African and Indonesian steam. Not a diesel will sully these tracks.

When Dugort Harbour was ORIGINALLY planned, the intention was that it would be portable. Long story, but as you can see this isn't happening.

A chance conversation with a fellow enthusiast of Cape gauge stuff recently got me thinking, so this green rectangle is a portable board of 15" x 7'6" (in quarts) which rests on supports but may be lifted out when I'm operating the Irish layout. It shares the (fixed) fiddle yard, and I am talking to "those who know" about a dual gauge turntable in the fiddle yard. This will represent a Western Cape branchline somewhere on the edge of the Karoo, in the 1960s - 70s period. 

The beauty of South African lines is that many branchlines, even those which saw but one mixed train a day, lasted right until closure as late as the mid 1990s without ever having seen a diesel; so, perfect for steam fans even into the modern era with 2.8.4s hauling goods trains with modern bogie container wagons - same stuff you'd have seen at North Wall in 1995. This one WILL just be a terminus-and-fiddle-yard thing.

What's with all those turntables? 

Steam engines and 121s, that's what. In the era I'm dealing with, 121s rarely if ever ran in pairs, and on most branches, CIE turned steam engines. On the South African Railways, while it did happen the odd time, tender-first working on lines like the one shown were almost unknown.

The narrow gauge thing will be limited to maybe 15 items of rolling stock - a typical train of the appropriate type might have had two four wheel wagons, two bogies and one coach. Locos will be two 6J class 4.6.0s, and IF the IRM "A" class budget doesn't have the damn house back on the market, maybe a 19D. Lottery win needed, maybe another 6th class derivitave of the 6J kit. If anyone has any idea where I could get a 24 class....do ping me.

Edited April 12, 2021 by jhb171achill

[Lambeg man]

Ambitious Jon. Good luck with your efforts.

[jhb171achill]

After many twists and turns, and a house move, I am delighted to have had a visit from Baseboard Dave today with a vanload of great goodies.

Dugort Harbour has arrived. Dave will post a pile of pics later on, but a few teasers here; it's 20th July 1964 and the 17:35 to Castletown West is about to depart - or it would, if the height of the layout matched the further extension that it is going to be connected to - but that's in hand.

As originally conceived, it was to be a standalone shunting layout, based on a place like Baltimore, Valentia Harbour or Westport Quay. The idea was to have this plus a fiddle yard; trains leaving the place going along a fictitious four or five mile branch to the nearest big town.

It has an air of desolation to it. This is intentional, though a West Cork / Kerry-like corrugated sheet station building will be added when I get around to it, plus a few people and cars. 

The prototypes mentioned above only seem to have survived as they were too insignificant to be worth listing for closure in themselves - though Westport Quay was retained in order to provide access for a fuel tanker to stabled buses - this is imitated here with an oil tanker grounded for the same purpose; a raison d'etre for such a lonely place to retain a train service at all. 

Like many lines that CIE want to close, the service is sparse. A daily goods will serve the place, with a morning and evening passenger train, mixed in steam days.

It will only come to life when the local GAA crowd set off en masse for Croker, the beet season is in full swing, or the monthly cattle fair is due.

In the fictitious setting, now that it is in a new house, there is scope for extension (hence the mismatching height of new boards installed and ready for track!). This extension will include a medium sized town station, from where the main line train from Cork or Dublin arrives twice daily, a la Lismore / Dungarvan, Clonmel or Bantry. A connection goes out to Dugort Harbour. 

Once the "main" station is complete, the main line trains will leave there to a fiddle yard, so the routine will be 

Fiddle Yard ----(main line)---- Castletown West ----(branch)---- Dugort Harbour.

One thing that initial trials show up is the bad idea of various RTR and kit-built stock having slightly different couplings; derailments galore. I may well foist some 15 locos and 50 coaches and wagons some day on some poor soul with a request to put kadees on the lot. 

Just a few adjustments. Buildings have to be added (I have a goods shed started). Slight adjustment to a platform edge, as it and a JM Design "tin van" have fallen out over clearance issues, but that's easily fixed.

Backscenes are desperately needed; that will be a priority.

The "main" station will have a turntable, allowing locos to turn before going back to "Cork", a fictitious two or so hours away. But on the branch, the old turntable pit is filled in and the shed demolished; it IS the "swinging sixties" after all, so tender first running there.

So, back to a summer evening back in 1964. Bet you didn't know they had drones back then..........

 

From the goods yard gate, stock lying about.

And from a very youthful ”TTCs” or  “Wanderer’s” drone….

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

What appears to be a sort of "lay-by"(!) on the main platform is where the buildings will go.

There will also be a small goods store and small yard crane, which I've weathered within an inch of its life.

[ttc0169]

Looking fab Jonathan,welcome to the dark side.........

[Galteemore]

Looks fantastic!

[Edo]

Love it JHB.....the whole turntable piece is particularly arresting...just eeks of the atmosphere of a long gone era.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Edo said:

Love it JHB.....the whole turntable piece is particularly arresting...just eeks of the atmosphere of a long gone era.

That's the whole idea, Edo - so it's worked! Phew!

In my teens I got to all sorts of places like this which had seen better days, but were still operational - this seemed to add to their atmosphere. Westport Quay was one, and the trackplan here closely resembles that place.

With no MGWR kits on the go when I started designing this, but nice SSM and Worsley etches of GSWR prototypes then available, I decided to move "down south"; thus, the place is somewhere in West Cork or West Kerry, which also gives the opportunity to make the sort of corrugated buildings that were popular in that area, and which (a) I like, and (b) are easy to make!

The real Dugort, by the way, is a small village (or what's left of one) on the north coast of Achill Island.

Many a time I will operate this section of the layout as if it's a three-times-a-week-if-required goods-only line, like Castleisland at the end. A place which hasn't seen a passenger service, GAA days apart, since 1937.....A J15, "C" or a 141 appears, shuffles a few vans about, and potters off again, observing the 20 mph speed limit as it rocks and rolls through the weeds up to the main "town", where the six coach twice a day to Cork is about to depart.

Edited July 20, 2021 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

Plenty playing trains tonight, even though it’s yet to be connected to anything!

Vans and a cattle truck await their next duty in the yard. Two are from the recently-absorbed GNR. A cattle truck remains, following the arrival of “beasts” for yer man with the field over beyond yer wan’s house.

Tomorrow’s 08:30 (Wednesdays & Fridays only) all ready.

Edited July 20, 2021 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

On Fridays only, the evening down train to Castletown West continues to the Harbour. Here it prepares to go back to Castletown to form the 0900 to Cork on the Saturday morning.