Silverfox exBR Mk1 Steam Heating Van

dave182 · September 12, 2012

Hi Guys,

I picked up a Silverfox exBR Mk1 Steam Heating Van in Clontarf at the weekend to go with my craven set. Coupled up to the Cravens it seems a bit tall. Have looked at youtube and it definitely should be sitting slightly lower than the Cravens, so I think the best thing to do is change the wheels to a smaller diameter. Any recommendations/comments?

Also, before I go ruining my new purchase, does the body pop off easily on this model? Would love to add some detail to the interior.

Regards,

Dave

Blaine · September 12, 2012

A bit heavy handed, but buy a Bachmann Mk1 with B4 bogies (comb ebay, usually the regional railways ones had B4's), removed the body, cut the SF vans ends off and slot it onto the bachmann chassis. Will run better and smoother and to scale height. You then also have an open interior. Also add the water tank under the model

Flying Scotsman 4472 · September 12, 2012

The SF model do sit higher all I did with mine is remove the body from the chassis and re-glue it back on with copy dex but push the chassis further into the body when glueing

David · September 12, 2012

Also the cravens models have under-scale wheel sizes so this doesn't help!

Weshty · September 12, 2012

A bit heavy handed, but buy a Bachmann Mk1 with B4 bogies (comb ebay, usually the regional railways ones had B4's), removed the body, cut the SF vans ends off and slot it onto the bachmann chassis. Will run better and smoother and to scale height. You then also have an open interior. Also add the water tank under the model

Prior to the release of the Silver Fox version, I kitbashed a Backky MK1 with B4 bogies, particularly based on the fact that the prototypes were based on the same items anyway. I noted that by cutting up the sides and rearranging them created a near perfect copy, with only a small bit of the side to be built from scratch.

The bakky model is particularly suitable for this as the sides are discrete components and the whole structure reassembles very easily. I took some photos of the sides with the cut lines required so will look for them and post them up. The roof vents were straightforward enough as well.

RedRich · September 12, 2012

File down the weld seams on the roof also Des as they are way to prominent. Trust me they do look good when filed down and weathered. I have a few Bachmann BCK and BSK coaches in the stock box with my replacement brass sides for when the conversions are ready to begin. The roofs are different on the BCK and BSK coaches detail wise and are the same on the GSV's so be careful which number you use. For real authentic looking coaches get some Replica Railways B5 bogies as they are fantastic looking and aren't that expensive. I will be using their B5 and B4 bogies on the MK11's exclusively (try comparing the supplied bogies size wise to the Craven models bogies) as the B4's are totally inaccurate dimension wise on the models.

Rich,

Weshty · September 12, 2012

File down the weld seams on the roof also Des as they are way to prominent. Trust me they do look good when filed down and weathered. I have a few Bachmann BCK and BSK coaches in the stock box with my replacement brass sides for when the conversions are ready to begin. The roofs are different on the BCK and BSK coaches detail wise and are the same on the GSV's so be careful which number you use. For real authentic looking coaches get some Replica Railways B5 bogies as they are fantastic looking and aren't that expensive. I will be using their B5 and B4 bogies on the MK11's exclusively (try comparing the supplied bogies size wise to the Craven models bogies) as the B4's are totally inaccurate dimension wise on the models.

Rich,

Mmmm, nice one Richie. Sounds like a plan!

dave182 · September 13, 2012

Wow, thanks guys for all the input! A wealth of information as always. I don't get much time to spend at the hobby but I'm detemined to give up a couple of hours a week over the winter months! I've a couple of little scratch builds on the go and am trying to pull together a small layout to show off my work. Have started to take some pics of the projects as I go along so will post in the coming weeks. I'll add the Steam Generating Van to the list. Anthony, I've got the body off handy enough so I think I'll have a look at putting a bachmann chassis on as suggested by Blaine.

Will keep you posted!

RedRich · September 13, 2012

Wow, thanks guys for all the input! A wealth of information as always. I don't get much time to spend at the hobby but I'm detemined to give up a couple of hours a week over the winter months! I've a couple of little scratch builds on the go and am trying to pull together a small layout to show off my work. Have started to take some pics of the projects as I go along so will post in the coming weeks. I'll add the Steam Generating Van to the list. Anthony, I've got the body off handy enough so I think I'll have a look at putting a bachmann chassis on as suggested by Blaine.

Will keep you posted!

Make sure you use a Bachmann chassis from a BSK coach as the door steps will be in the wrong place on the chassis otherwise. The GSV's were converted from BSK's from no's 3174 - 3189. No's 3171 - 3173 were BCK's. Here's a photo to show the difference in the two coaches. The BCK etch is on top and the BSK etch which the Silver Fox models are based on is on the bottom.

Rich,

popeye · September 25, 2012

Here is a pic of an old MK1 Brake that i kit bashed closing doors & windows, its a lot of work. I added B4 Bogies that i got from DC Kits.

I think it looks fine.

Sulzer201 · September 25, 2012

Well done there popeye, she looks amazing.

snapper · September 25, 2012

looks great

Warbonnet · September 25, 2012

Lovely work popeye. Rich, give me a should when your etches are ready, will be taking a couple off you.

scahalane · September 25, 2012

great work, well done.

RedRich · September 25, 2012

Lovely work popeye. Rich, give me a should when your etches are ready, will be taking a couple off you.

No probs Fran, will do.

Rich,

RedRich · September 25, 2012

A fine model, great work and a nice paint job.

Rich,

Weshty · September 26, 2012

Sweet job Popeye, Richie, those etches look mighty fine. Might even get a set (don't know when I'll get to buld it though!), are they available to Seán Public and if so how much?

September 26, 2012

Very nice end result well worth all the work.

FrankS · September 27, 2012

To hark back to Weshty's Post # 6 in which he says "For real authentic looking coaches get some Replica Railways B5 bogies as they are fantastic looking and aren't that expensive. "

I'm quite happy with my Silver fox SGV as it sits at the same height as the Cravens ??? but I would like to change the bogies, which have the old BIG version coupler moulded as part of the bogie for ones which have the NEM box on them - mainly because I want to swap the god-awful annoying tension lock couplers for Kadee's.

Can the Replica B4(RA05) or B5(RA08) bogies be fitted with their own Part # RA23 NEM couplings ???, please. Or, If not a Bachmann or Dapol NEM Box, maybe.

RedRich · September 29, 2012

Sweet job Popeye, Richie, those etches look mighty fine. Might even get a set (don't know when I'll get to buld it though!), are they available to Seán Public and if so how much?

I'll let you know at the show in October Des. They were originally done for my own use but I will speak to the manufacturer soon and let you know. They are designed as replacement sides for the Bachmann coaches and not overlay etches. They require a bit of rolling (a template is included along with the tanks for the underframe) and folding on the fold lines and the side clips into the chassis and roof. Because they are thinner than the plastic sides that Bachmann use a small bit of filing is required where the sides meet the end of the coach.

I will be using a few spare Craven corridor connections on the ends and removing the MK1 corridor connections, cables, steps and alarm gear from the Bachmann coaches.

I will model the roof detail from some brass shapes and sheets that I have to hand already. I have a few photos of side attached (unpainted) and semi completed coach sent to me by the manufacturer and it looks great, the coach ends aren't completed but it gives a good overall impression of what a finished coach might look like. Instructions are also provided.

Rich,

Weshty · September 30, 2012

Sound man richie. See you at the mrsi.

Sentinel281 · December 13, 2012

Hello,

I've got some questions to the GSVs in protype:

Do I understand correctly, that the rolling stock they were fitted to did neither have steam generators on the loco nor dynamos on the carriages? What interrests me especially is, if the GSVs were also used in summer times because of the need for electricity or if they were only used when heating was needed. In a video that was linked to from the forum some days ago a GSV was used end of May. Anoter Question is about the short trains consiting of one G class Loco and one craven. How did they get heat (and light?) into the coach? And finally: Did the dutch and the ex BR GSVs serve for the same purposes or were there differences in the kind of coaches they ran with etc.?

Thanks in advance

Gerhard.

josefstadt · December 13, 2012

Hi Gerhard,

The term GSV (Generating Steam Van) applied to all vans which had both boilers, for steam heating, and generators, to provide electrical power to the train - sometimes called 'hotel power', not just the vans converted from ex-British Rail stock. Thus the Dutch Vans (3157-66*), the BR Vans (3171-76 and 3177-92) and three series of vans converted at Inchicore from earlier stock (3201-12**, 3213-18 and 3219-24**) were all classified as GSVs (* the Dutch Vans were originally delivered as steam heating vans and were later converted to GSVs; **3201-12 and 3219-24 also had passenger accommodation and were Brake Standard GSVs). The GSVs did indeed operate with coaching stock that was not fitted with dynamos or batteries. With the exception of the 113-class, CIÉ / IÉ locomotives are not fitted with train heating boilers. There was no difference it the type of stock that the various types of GSV operated with, though generally the 3201 and 3219 types were to be found on suburban services. This was not a technical consideration but rather a means of increasing train capacity by replacing a full van with one that had passenger accommodation. GSVs were used on trains during the summer months to provide power for lighting, catering cars (fridges etc.) and any other requirement for an electric supply. There was also the need to have a brake van on the train for parcels traffic, luggage, bikes etc and also to provide accommodation for the guard.

I don't think that the G-class ever ran with just one Craven coach. There would have had to have been a brake van on the train and this would have supplied heat and power to the coach. However, on the Loughrea branch the normal carriage used with the G-class locomotives was brake composite No. 1910 (Inchicore 1959). Power for lighting was supplied by batteries, charged by a belt-driven dynamo. Heating was provided in a novel way - a storage heater which was plugged into a socket fitted under the edge of the platform at Loughrea at night. They just had to remember to unplug it before the first departure in the morning!

Kirley · December 13, 2012

What an excellent detailed answer Josefstadt and one that I found very informative.

Sentinel281 · December 13, 2012

Thank you very much josefstadt, that really helps. I think I got that wrong and you sure are rigtht concerning Loughrea branch. As I am still a beginner without the necessary literature and as it takes weeks to obtain packages from Ireland and UK I am still very uncertain about train formations. I now need to get in contact with John from Silverfox Models...

Thanks again

Gerhard.

Flying Scotsman 4472 · December 13, 2012

What did the BR vehicles look like before being converted by CIE to GSV's, any pics anybody?

jhb171achill · December 13, 2012

Totally right, Josefstadt. G class locos never pulled Cravens. Very occasionally, excursions ran into or out of Loughrea hauled by a main line loco which may have included the odd Craven, though personally I've never seen any pic of any Craven coach even in such a formation. Had a Craven run with a "G", it would have had to have had a genny van.

In summer when heating or lighting mighn't have been needed, both 4 and 6 wheel genny vans, or Dutch or BR vans, simply fulfilled the role of guards or parcel vans.

BR vans, before conversion, were standard British Rail Mk 1 full passenger brakes, like any Hornby model based on a UK prototype.

Garfield · December 13, 2012

BR vans, before conversion, were standard British Rail Mk 1 full passenger brakes, like any Hornby model based on a UK prototype.

I'm not sure about that, JB... I'm pretty sure they were a mixture of brake corridor seconds and brake corridor composites.

RedRich · December 14, 2012

I'm not sure about that, JB... I'm pretty sure they were a mixture of brake corridor seconds and brake corridor composites.

Spot on Pat. The coaches were coverted from BCK and BSK coaches in the BR MK1 fleet. The coaches were,

3172 former BR BCK 21138

3173 former BR BCK 21146

3174 former BR BSK 21143

3175 former BR BSK 21196

3177 former BR BSK 34227

3178 former BR BSK 34590 was also air brake through piped

3179 former BR BSK 34677 was also air brake through piped

3180 former BR BSK 34378 was also air brake through piped

3183 former BR BSK 34687 was also air brake through piped

3184 former BR BSK 34566

3185 former BR BSK 34093

3186 former BR BSK 34757 was also air brake through piped

3187 former BR BSK 34012 was also air brake through piped

3188 former BR BSK 34701 was also air brake through piped

3189 former BR BSK 34264 was also air brake through piped

There were many external differences between the fleet such as window arrangements and different sized roof hatches. It's worth having a good look at photos if you are going to model a particular coach. Some ran with tail boards and some didn't, again check photos. They all ran on BR B5 bogies.

Rich,

jhb171achill · December 14, 2012

I stand corrected, garfield; my famiiliarity with them has been entirely on this side of the water! :-)

Incidentally, the one at Downpatrick, 3189, shows old Southern Region green paint under its black'n'tan.

Weshty · December 14, 2012

Rob reminded me that I had promised to look up a photo of how I kit bashed a Bakky BCK. Here you are. On one side, it's just a case of covering up and redoing the windows at two points and covering the left end door with some thin styrene or acetate.

On the other side, you saw off the end, saw out the middle and swap them. Then blank the ends and add a door and alter a window.

The great think about bashing a Bakky is that you get to keep all the roof, end and panel detailing

flange lubricator · August 18, 2013

Having not done any modelmaking for over 30 years here's a backmann bsk I converted to a GSV

.

Garfield · August 18, 2013

That looks tasty! Excellent work.

Kirley · August 18, 2013

[quote=flange lubricator;33912 Having not done any modelmaking for over 30 years here's a backmann bsk I converted to a GSV

.

Welcome to the site and your first posting, a very impressive start

WRENNEIRE · August 18, 2013

Not as impressive as his handle Kirley

Flange Lubricator: I LOVE IT!!!!

heirflick · August 19, 2013

you could only come from portlaoise with a name like that! welcome FL...nice to see a fellow portlaoisean on the site! great work on the genny:tumbsup:

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