Peculiar CIE Rolling Stock

[DiveController]

Did CIE have any SIX-wheel cut-down open wagons in the 1960s? I saw a photo somewhere recently (and I'll try to locate it) but I recall a grey open wagon with white snail with the planking cut down like a Courtaulds wagon

Edited April 21, 2020 by DiveController

[DiveController]

The open wagon appear to be a 6-wheeler unless my eyes are playing tricks?

Edited April 21, 2020 by DiveController

[Noel]

7 iconic wagons in that train and no RTR Irish versions on the market  

[DiveController]

Well seven wagons but at least 4 are ventilated cover H vans, another covered that I can't make out properly, the corrugated open (beet) wagon and the one that is perplexing me

(but yes it would be nice to have some rtr purchase options)

Edited February 13, 2020 by DiveController

[Mayner]

The 6 wheeler is an ex-GNR Diagram 47 Ballast Wagon.

The third wagon in the trains looks like an ex-LMS-NCC van possibly returning empty from Navan or even Kingscourt to Northern Ireland.

The GNR & SLNCR both had 6 wheel ballast wagons.

The GNR appears to have had two varieties.

1. A 2 door wagon with sloping ends.

2. A dropside version possibly with removable ends and sides.

I saw one of the latter in Kingscourt in 75/76 the wagon had lost its sides and ends may have been used for carrying sleepers or rails.

The Ulster Transport Museum have the UTA & GNR carriage and wagon diagram books

[BSGSV]

Something along the same line in this link, for those who are group members of Irish Railways Past & Present on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=938113889924658&set=gm.1574808962672456&type=3&theater&ifg=1

Edited February 12, 2020 by BSGSV

[patrick]

I recall seeing one hauled by a Deutz ( without a brake van) dropping off sleepers on the Fenit line sometime around 1970.

[jhb171achill]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 10:49 PM, DiveController said:

Well seven wagons but at least 4 are ventilated cover H vans, another covered that I can't make out properly, the corrugated open (beet) wagon and the one that is perplexing me

(but yes it would be noice to have some rtr purchase options)

The third van behind the loco is a quite old fitted GNR van. I think, but i am not sure, that the GNR used these for bread traffic at one time.

[leslie10646]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:42 PM, Noel said:

7 iconic wagons in that train and no RTR Irish versions on the market  

Come off it, Noel, it's not as if my kits of the Bulleid corrugated open, or the H van  are that difficult to build!

See:

http://www.provincialwagons.com/cie-wagons/

and the price remains the same, even though some eejit thinks the Pound is worth 5% more than when I set the price!

Leslie (aka Provincial Wagons)

[patrick]

I got to agree with Leslie here Noel. I greatly admire your skill modelling CIE passenger stock, you should have no problem achieving incredible results with Leslie's kits. It is truly amazing what has become available to Irish modelers in the last few years but IRM and Paddy Murphy can't be expected to produce everything for what is after all a very small, but thankfully growing market. Duplicating an already good an easily assembled kit can only drive small manufacturers out of the market which is detrimental to all of us. I for one don't want to see this forum dominated by cookie cutter layouts all populated by the same high quality off the shelf models. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by patrick
Damm spell check!

[Dhu Varren]

17 hours ago, Mayner said:

The third wagon in the trains looks like an ex-LMS-NCC van possibly returning empty from Navan or even Kingscourt to Northern Ireland.

I would agree with Mayner. The third vehicle is most likely an ex LMSNCC van. It has the classic NCC outside W irons.  

[Galteemore]

Yes: think a drawing appeared in a recent New Irish Lines 

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Dhu Varren said:

I would agree with Mayner. The third vehicle is most likely an ex LMSNCC van. It has the classic NCC outside W irons.  

 

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Yes: think a drawing appeared in a recent New Irish Lines 

I can't see the outside W"'s.... if so, however, one wonders what it was doing further south than Portadown, given that the UTA stopped goods traffic in 1965? The locomotive has the higher tan sides, so the photo can't have been taken before about 1963. In 1964 / 5, I saw the goods trains passing through Lisburn every day, and they were almost, if not literally, completely ex-GN or CIE (including GSW vans) stock at that time.

[NIR]

21 hours ago, Mayner said:

The 6 wheeler is an ex-GNR Diagram 47 Ballast Wagon.

Looks like something in Parting Shot pages 83 and 84. Portadown 1968, spoked wheels, wooden solebar/headstock, grey... but dropside like the second drawing. Number 8067.

Edited February 12, 2020 by NIR

[Mayner]

13 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

I can't see the outside W"'s.... if so, however, one wonders what it was doing further south than Portadown, given that the UTA stopped goods traffic in 1965? The locomotive has the higher tan sides, so the photo can't have been taken before about 1963. In 1964 / 5, I saw the goods trains passing through Lisburn every day, and they were almost, if not literally, completely ex-GN or CIE (including GSW vans) stock at that time.

The photo is dated May 63 before the UTA ended goods traffic, Beauparc  seems to have recently closed as a block post signal arms removed but signal post and pointwork still in place. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5736789174/in/album-72157626756740602/ 

There are a number of photos of ex-NCC vans on the GNR system both before and following the UTA takeover. Presumably NCC stock would have been mainly used for traffic from the ex NCC lines onto the GNR and returned empty before the takeover while GNR & CIE wagons were more likely to have been used for interchange traffic between the GNR & CIE. 

Interestingly there is a photo a SLNCR Enniskillen-Sligo goods mainly made up of GNR & CIE vans, with a cut of relatively new looking CIE H vans marshaled behind the GNR stock towards the rear of the train. Its likely that several of the GNR vans were being used to transport bagged cement from Drogheda to Sligo (the GNR & SLNCR competed with CIE for Dublin-Sligo freight traffic & Drogheda-Sligo bagged cement) the H vans are likely to be returning to the CIE system over the SLNCR rather than via Dublin to maximise CIEs  share of the line haul revenue particularly if the wagons were consigned to a destination in the South West.

The NCC vans make a nice contrast to CIE & GNR stock and relatively simple to build from plasticard.  "Nelson" produced a nice model of an NCC van complete with outside axleguards on a Dapol wagon chassis https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/2382-nelsons-workbench/page/4/

 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

Yes, CIE wagons, including but not confined to "H" types, were indeed regulars on the SLNCR. I saw a photo somewhere with a goods coming into EKN with as many CIE wagons as (combined) GN & SLNC types.

For those modelling the SLNCR, that allows probably a greater variety of goods stock than anywhere else!

The wagon in the photo above, if NCC, is certainly a very unusual and interesting visitor.

[Galteemore]

Just received another edition of my favourite Irish railway book - the one I’d take to a desert island- off eBay. It includes my favourite Irish railway pic - by JJ Smith. But I’d never noticed the car on the flat wagon before.....just ahead of the bogie brake being worked back to EKN for the 7:20 ....

[Noel]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:19 PM, DiveController said:

The open wagon appear to be a 6-wheeler unless my eye are playing tricks?

What a classic scene. Thanks for posting.

[Mol_PMB]

I've just found this thread and I had also been puzzling over these 6-wheel freight wagons, so thanks for the info above.

Here's another 6-wheeler, behind an NIR Hunslet at Lisburn, thanks to Jonathan Allen on Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39853513881

And I suspect this may also be a 6-wheeler, an interesting view from above:

I'm certain I've seen another, very clear photo of one of these 6-wheel wagons in a yard in Belfast, but I can't find it again!

 

[minister_for_hardship]

I've been entertaining myself with photos of weird wagons on the IRRS Flickr pages, unfortunately can't reproduce here for copyright reasons. 

GSR open with a timber turf creel and GS&WR open with some sort of an extension of netting.

CIE snail branded 6 wheel brake van but built on an old loco tender chassis.

MGWR, always with an eye for a bargain, Spanish steel opens with brakemans shelters and "Norte" (Northern Railway of Spain) axlebox covers.

Gas wagons but with CIE broken wheel logos, why were these retained so late in the day??

Fascinating how far some wagons wandered from their parent systems, 6 wheel ex CBSCR closed wagon at Liffey jct etc.

Edited November 9 by minister_for_hardship

[Westcorkrailway]

7 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

I've been entertaining myself with photos of weird wagons on the IRRS Flickr pages, unfortunately can't reproduce here for copyright reasons. 

GSR open with a timber turf creel and GS&WR open with some sort of an extension of netting.

CIE snail branded 6 wheel brake van but built on an old loco tender chassis.

MGWR, always with an eye for a bargain, Spanish steel opens with brakemans shelters and "Norte" (Northern Railway of Spain) axlebox covers.

Gas wagons but with CIE broken wheel logos, why were these retained so late in the day??

Fascinating how far some wagons wandered from their parent systems, 6 wheel ex CBSCR closed wagon at Liffey jct etc.

A few CBSC wagons curiously ended up in Dublin 

[minister_for_hardship]

Ebay photo listing of ancient looking open with a literal sh*te wagon load. 

Before listing disappears, it has MULLINGAR painted on top RH corner, PXP painted in two places and carries number ?731 (first digit could well be a 6 or a 9) and painted instruction "TO RUN(?) BETWEEN WATERFORD (?) STATION (?)"

Presumably, given the cattle wagons in background this is filled with the manure from them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335714102551?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338722076&customid=&toolid=10050

Edited December 8 by minister_for_hardship

[Mol_PMB]

I had my eye on this too. I think the number is 0731. 
The wording appears to read ‘TO WORK BETWEEN WATERBANK AND STATION ONLY’ but it’s not entirely clear on the scan. 
Did the cattle bank at Mullingar have a name?

From the same seller there’s also a nice photo of a pair of the MGWR side-discharge coal wagons of continental design:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335714103886?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=jL0OYQ-sSgG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=PWnBnL0RQpq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

I had my eye on this too. I think the number is 0731. 
The wording appears to read ‘TO WORK BETWEEN WATERBANK AND STATION ONLY’ but it’s not entirely clear on the scan. 
Did the cattle bank at Mullingar have a name?

From the same seller there’s also a nice photo of a pair of the MGWR side-discharge coal wagons of continental design:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335714103886?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=jL0OYQ-sSgG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=PWnBnL0RQpq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Could be between "cattlebank and station?"

From the cut of it, missing axlebox cover and what look like weeds growing out of it, it's likely not doing serious mileage anymore.

Don't think rolling stock numbers started with "0" pre SuperTrain era.

Edited December 8 by minister_for_hardship

[GSR 800]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

I had my eye on this too. I think the number is 0731. 
The wording appears to read ‘TO WORK BETWEEN WATERBANK AND STATION ONLY’ but it’s not entirely clear on the scan. 
Did the cattle bank at Mullingar have a name?

From the same seller there’s also a nice photo of a pair of the MGWR side-discharge coal wagons of continental design:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335714103886?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=jL0OYQ-sSgG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=PWnBnL0RQpq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Well the cattlebank has the canal right behind it so its possible that's what its referring too. Hardly 'watertank'?

This photo is taken at the far end of Mullingar yard, near the gantry, where there was a kind of island dock adjacent the cattlebank, presumably used to wash out and lime cattle wagons. Perhaps being for cleaning purposes, this was the 'waterbank'?

Would make sense to have a manure wagon there where they're cleaning out cattle wagons, after all.

Edited December 8 by GSR 800

[BSGSV]

On 9/11/2024 at 5:44 PM, minister_for_hardship said:

Gas wagons but with CIE broken wheel logos, why were these retained so late in the day??

I think oil gas was still used in one or two of the carriages of the old set that would come out on the Dublin Suburban on Summer Sundays and the like?

Also, there were probably older diners which needed it for cooking/heating, even CIE built ones, which got converted to calor gas in the 1960's. 

[Mol_PMB]

On 8/12/2024 at 11:25 AM, GSR 800 said:

Well the cattlebank has the canal right behind it so its possible that's what its referring too. Hardly 'watertank'?

This photo is taken at the far end of Mullingar yard, near the gantry, where there was a kind of island dock adjacent the cattlebank, presumably used to wash out and lime cattle wagons. Perhaps being for cleaning purposes, this was the 'waterbank'?

Would make sense to have a manure wagon there where they're cleaning out cattle wagons, after all.

I bought the print and have scanned the areas of text at higher resolution. I think it's clear now, it's 'WASHBANK' which makes a lot of sense in the light of the comment above.

Also the wagon number does start with 0, probably a series used for restricted or internal user wagons?

Mol

[GSR 800]

23 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I bought the print and have scanned the areas of text at higher resolution. I think it's clear now, it's 'WASHBANK' which makes a lot of sense in the light of the comment above.

Also the wagon number does start with 0, probably a series used for restricted or internal user wagons?

Mol

Aha! 

That makes a lot of sense. Back in the day, Mullingar Station had quite an array of bushes, trees, flowers, and the like, all of which kept looking very trim and proper. I wonder if they used this manure as fertiliser for it?