Modeling Irish Railways on a budget

[Westcorkrailway]

can’t find a thread on something along the lines of this, so here I go 

 

I can remember 6 years ago being priced out of this hobby due to not having a job . Since then I have managed to gain some disposable income. But before that the chance of  of even finding something cheap was slim. 
 

I met a member of this forum and they asked for advice on budget modeling. All they had in terms of Irish locos was a kit built 121 class they had picked up for 50 quid. All I told them to do was look up milipeade or Gerry Hoey on adverts,  it some of Leslie’s GNR wagons,  buy something like aG class off silverfox and perhaps paint a bunch of cheap Mark 1s into Black and Tan.

 

can anyone else think of budget modeling solutions 

[DJ Dangerous]

Biggest tip I can suggest is be extra patient.

IRM's wagon packs are excellent value, and every Black Friday, they hit us with something even better.

Everything will be re-run eventually, whether locos, wagons or coaches.

Going even more buget, there is a thread on British locos that can be disguised as Irish locos here:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/11073-british-locos-and-stock-that-can-be-disguised-as-irish

Hatton's quite frequently have open wagons, closed vans, containers, Mk1 coaches, Mk2 coaches etc very cheap.

The other day, they had brand new Mk3 coaches for £15 GBP each.

All of the above would be ideal candidates for re-painting.

Bachmann N Class Moguls show up in SR livery and BR black livery for £50 to £80 at Hatton's from time to time. De-badge with a cocktail stick and you have a relatively Irish loco.

And, as you say, @leslie10646's wagons are brilliant value for what you get!

I guess there's going to be a trade-off between budget and realism, almost on a linear scale at the centre, so the budget you want to keep to will determine how realistic you can go.

@Sean posted a thread on budget Irish modelling, back in 2019 or 2020, prior to his workbench thread, but I can't find it at a glance.

One could also look for non-runners to repair, as in this thread:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/12359-wanted-non-runners/

 

[Galteemore]

Loads you can do with an old 08 painted green or a cheap Hornby 0-4-0 diesel painted up. Triang 3F with a smokebox door wheel and flying snail on tender will look passable. Scenery can be made Irish very easily with Alphagraphix card kits. 

[Westcorkrailway]

All helpful folks, and this isint for me. But those who watch this forum anonymously trying to find out ways to model Irish on pocket money. The amount of young railway modellers I saw and met at the swap meet was staggering 

[Patrick Davey]

All good advice above.  I feel very fortunate to be able to acquire a certain number of the amazing Irish models currently available, must be frustrating for anyone who isn't able to at the moment.  I wonder would there be a market for a 'Railroad'-type Irish range.....?

[Westcorkrailway]

33 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

 I wonder would there be a market for a 'Railroad'-type Irish range.....?

I personally don’t think so, but Gerry’s Hoeys stuff is by far the next best thing. Sure certainly some of the locos don’t look as they should but just from a quick look at his adverts page. An NIR C clas for 100, a G class at 30 quid. Irish cement for 25 a wagon. Bulleid wagons for 20 ect.

The dickie taras are the closest we will ever see in terms of a “railroad” range. It worked out at 10 euro a wagon. 

 

looking back on where I started. I worked the entire summer of 2019 to buy C212 from silverfox. I was buying tri-ang wagons at a fiver each at my locoal antique store and painting them with a grey spray can. It was just way to expensive for me to even think of buying anything modern. As much at it would be somehat advisable to be patient. You have to start somwhere

[jhb171achill]

Probably depends what era you want.

For the modern era, various British railcars re-liveried to resemble something Irish. A British 66 repainted as a 201. Some sort of generic railcar iof it can be got cheap, reliveried in ICR livery. Just about any container flats painted brown.

For the black'n'tan era, old BR Mk 1 or Mk 2 repainted black'n'tan. A locomotive would be a challenge, as nothing outside Ireland that's available at all, let alone cheap, even begins to resemble an Irish diesel loco - but there are always old Tri-ang 101 class British railcars which can be repainted - these were common on omain lines in the 60s (and before, but we'll come to that). Again, various BR box vans and open wagons, remove decals, paint chassis and body grey or brown, and away ye go. Container flats too.

For the grey'n'green (steam) era, there are now repaints of British steam locos available. There's a common and inexpensive 0.6.oT which bears a good resemblance to a MGWR "E" / GSR J26; and any amount of old British 4.4.0s or 0.6.0s which given a lick of paint can pass for Irish. If repainting a British one to look Irish, essential the livery is right, as if it isn't, becvause the original thing isn't Irish, it won't look Irish! If grey, dark grey not light, and grey smokebox and chimney too; green flying snail on tender, yellow cabside number. Tank engines never had snails. Anything bigger than a 2.6.0 maybe in lined green or unlined black. Snails always green - never yellow or white!

For coaching stock, the good news is that the hattons six wheelers are on their way and they won't be expensive. But if even cheaper is wanted, go for old BR Mk 1s or LMS stock and repaint them green to resemble then-new laminates. Wagons - easy - any old opens or vans or cattle trucks - all grey prior to 1970.

Hopefully that's a brief summary. Always good to start off small, and no two of us have the same level of budget, so there has to be something for everyone! Good luck!

[Flying Snail]

Another way to approach the problem of modelling railways on a budget is to think about going down the 3D printing route. 3D printers are increasingly affordable and the technology is continuing to evolve in leaps and bounds.

Anyone one interested in doing this could do worse that have a look at the 3D printing playlist over on Sam's Trains. He has documented his 3D journey from very basic beginnings to his current loco: a very impressive LNWR Problem Class (see what I did there? ) Design Challenge | A 3D Printed Single Wheeler? | LNWR Problem Class

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Flying Snail said:

Another way to approach the problem of modelling railways on a budget is to think about going down the 3D printing route. 3D printers are increasingly affordable and the technology is continuing to evolve in leaps and bounds.

Anyone one interested in doing this could do worse that have a look at the 3D printing playlist over on Sam's Trains. He has documented his 3D journey from very basic beginnings to his current loco: a very impressive LNWR Problem Class (see what I did there? ) Design Challenge | A 3D Printed Single Wheeler? | LNWR Problem Class

Very good thinking!

[Metrovik]

Being the young lad in question who had the pleasure of talking to WestCorkRailway on Sunday can I just say thank you everyone for pitching in and throwing your suggestions out there. It's nice to be able to put a face to names on here and Hopefully you'll be able to see a bit of progress soon with at least one the ideas mentioned above. All I know is I may get some of Lesley's wagons, and maybe just maybe a Silver fox Shunter. Im not very era picky ( which I've heard can be more of a curse than a blessing) so am hoping to accumulate a range of Irish stock starting with the easiest, and the cheapest! Thanks everyone.

[Flying Snail]

You can't go wrong with Leslie's kits - faithful to the prototype and great value - they come with everything you need to complete them except the glue!!

 

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Very good thinking!

I'm like a stopped clock ... even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day   

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Flying Snail

[Westcorkrailway]

4 hours ago, Metrovik said:

Being the young lad in question who had the pleasure of talking to WestCorkRailway on Sunday can I just say thank you everyone for pitching in and throwing your suggestions out there. It's nice to be able to put a face to names on here and Hopefully you'll be able to see a bit of progress soon with at least one the ideas mentioned above. All I know is I may get some of Lesley's wagons, and maybe just maybe a Silver fox Shunter. Im not very era picky ( which I've heard can be more of a curse than a blessing) so am hoping to accumulate a range of Irish stock starting with the easiest, and the cheapest! Thanks everyone.

 

 

what’s crazy is you were by far from the only one. I met about 5 or 6 young fellas on the cusp on entering the hobby or were only knee deep that day. I wish I had held my marked down ferts a while longer…..i was happy to see 90, 467 and my BR mark 1s pull in the crowds for questions! 

 

 

17 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Going even more buget, there is a thread on British locos that can be disguised as Irish locos here:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/11073-british-locos-and-stock-that-can-be-disguised-as-irish

I had forgotten about this thread. But it’s very valuable to the kit basher. I’m still considering doing the below idea…although I’ll need to dust down the workbench, it’s been a while.

[Sean]

On 5/12/2023 at 8:53 AM, DJ Dangerous said:

Biggest tip I can suggest is be extra patient.

IRM's wagon packs are excellent value, and every Black Friday, they hit us with something even better.

Everything will be re-run eventually, whether locos, wagons or coaches.

Going even more buget, there is a thread on British locos that can be disguised as Irish locos here:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/11073-british-locos-and-stock-that-can-be-disguised-as-irish

Hatton's quite frequently have open wagons, closed vans, containers, Mk1 coaches, Mk2 coaches etc very cheap.

The other day, they had brand new Mk3 coaches for £15 GBP each.

All of the above would be ideal candidates for re-painting.

Bachmann N Class Moguls show up in SR livery and BR black livery for £50 to £80 at Hatton's from time to time. De-badge with a cocktail stick and you have a relatively Irish loco.

And, as you say, @leslie10646's wagons are brilliant value for what you get!

I guess there's going to be a trade-off between budget and realism, almost on a linear scale at the centre, so the budget you want to keep to will determine how realistic you can go.

@Sean posted a thread on budget Irish modelling, back in 2019 or 2020, prior to his workbench thread, but I can't find it at a glance.

One could also look for non-runners to repair, as in this thread:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/12359-wanted-non-runners/

 

I named that thread to my workbench

[jhb171achill]

9 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 I’m still considering doing the below idea…although I’ll need to dust down the workbench, it’s been a while.

Excellent idea. And - being originally an industrial, it was delivered looking as above, i.e. in manufacturers livery, not a railway livery. And it stayed that way - the GSR just put numberplates on it and never painted it grey - it wasn’t “important” enough!

Mind you, it seems never to have been cleaned either - spent its life so filthy it could have been pink for all anyone knew!

Perfect loco, in terms of both affordability, practicality and authenticity, for a small Albert Quay-to-dockside shunting layout. One of these and a dozen Provincial Leslie goods vans, and away ye go!

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Excellent idea. And - being originally an industrial, it was delivered looking as above, i.e. in manufacturers livery, not a railway livery. And it stayed that way - the GSR just put numberplates on it and never painted it grey - it wasn’t “important” enough!

Mind you, it seems never to have been cleaned either - spent its life so filthy it could have been pink for all anyone knew!

Perfect loco, in terms of both affordability, practicality and authenticity, for a small Albert Quay-to-dockside shunting layout. One of these and a dozen Provincial Leslie goods vans, and away ye go!

In my opinion, the above is actualy a viable model. If the Jinty is viable enough for 500 units from Hornby, and that GSR sentinel shunter and Hornby make the Peckett. I think this varient is perfectly viable. Not to mention this little engine was working until 1949 on paper meaning twas a CIE Loco too. I’m sure many of us in this forum could make some story to justify it on our layouts. 
 

the only differences between the standard 0-4-0 peckett in my rather crude photoshop above is the steam dome, open rather the closed cab, and adding the number plate (I think there are a few more minor differences) the only thing is I have no idea if that was the green peckett delivered the loco to Allmans distillery in the 20s however from contrasting with the few photos i have. The lining looks spot on. 

[Patrick Davey]

18 hours ago, Metrovik said:

Being the young lad in question who had the pleasure of talking to WestCorkRailway on Sunday can I just say thank you everyone for pitching in and throwing your suggestions out there. It's nice to be able to put a face to names on here and Hopefully you'll be able to see a bit of progress soon with at least one the ideas mentioned above. All I know is I may get some of Lesley's wagons, and maybe just maybe a Silver fox Shunter. Im not very era picky ( which I've heard can be more of a curse than a blessing) so am hoping to accumulate a range of Irish stock starting with the easiest, and the cheapest! Thanks everyone.

Good luck on the journey MV and don't forget to share progress pics!

After building a layout which was in total 30ft long, I discovered the concept of 'micro' layouts which are generally accepted to have a scenic/operational area of no more than 4ft x 2ft (a fiddle yard is not counted in the area measurement).  JB's stock suggestion above would fit nicely on a micro!  Advantages are many, including not taking up too much space, lower build costs, up and running relatively quickly etc but the main disadvantage of course is that they don't aways accommodate uninterrupted running trains (although I have seen this achieved!)

Whatever you do, enjoy!

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

Good luck on the journey MV and don't forget to share progress pics!

After building a layout which was in total 30ft long, I discovered the concept of 'micro' layouts which are generally accepted to have a scenic/operational area of no more than 4ft x 2ft (a fiddle yard is not counted in the area measurement).  JB's stock suggestion above would fit nicely on a micro!  Advantages are many, including not taking up too much space, lower build costs, up and running relatively quickly etc but the main disadvantage of course is that they don't aways accommodate uninterrupted running trains (although I have seen this achieved!)

Whatever you do, enjoy!

At exhibitions I've seen the concept of a small shunting layout - coupled with a double-ended railcar or railbus going back and forth on an automatic shuttle - deployed very successfully. So, shunt away with the loco and a few trucks, while continuous interest is shown by an arriving and departing short passenger train - railbus, 2-car railcar set, or some sort of push-pull contraption.

A CIE era one - easy. 2-car AEC goes back and forth - call it a "mini-Bantry" while a shunter potters about with vans.

I'm actually considering one of the above shunters for Dugort Harbour, on the basis that its owned by the harbour commissioners, not CIE. Another option is to have it pottering about Castletown West, on the basis that there's an Allmans-type brewery somewhere in the fiddle yard, and this thing appears once a day to meet the (CIE) goods, to swop vans for the distillery, then it toddles off into the background. Mind you, a "G" is probably a better option, though Silverfox apparently don't make them any more.

Question - are these locos suitable for DCC?

 

[Galteemore]

25 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

At exhibitions I've seen the concept of a small shunting layout - coupled with a double-ended railcar or railbus going back and forth on an automatic shuttle - deployed very successfully. So, shunt away with the loco and a few trucks, while continuous interest is shown by an arriving and departing short passenger train - railbus, 2-car railcar set, or some sort of push-pull contraption.

A CIE era one - easy. 2-car AEC goes back and forth - call it a "mini-Bantry" while a shunter potters about with vans.

I'm actually considering one of the above shunters for Dugort Harbour, on the basis that its owned by the harbour commissioners, not CIE. Another option is to have it pottering about Castletown West, on the basis that there's an Allmans-type brewery somewhere in the fiddle yard, and this thing appears once a day to meet the (CIE) goods, to swop vans for the distillery, then it toddles off into the background. Mind you, a "G" is probably a better option, though Silverfox apparently don't make them any more.

Question - are these locos suitable for DCC?

 

DCC ready - 4 pin socket 

[minister_for_hardship]

With new releases of mk2s, the Murphys Models ones may be sold off at reasonable prices. Likewise secondhand Silverfox A class should be picked up for a song now.

[Westcorkrailway]

49 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Mind you, a "G" is probably a better option, though Silverfox apparently don't make them any more.

Damn. Was not aware they stopped making those. 

21 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

With new releases of mk2s, the Murphys Models ones may be sold off at reasonable prices. Likewise secondhand Silverfox A class should be picked up for a song now.

I was expecting many more A’s of the silverfox era to be for sale after they became essentially obsolete. 

[minister_for_hardship]

11 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 

I was expecting many more A’s of the silverfox era to be for sale after they became essentially obsolete. 

There was a flurry of sales of Silverfox "A's" leading up to the launch of IRM's "A", no doubt there's still some out there. I have the black version I'll probably move on.

[Mayner]

Going back to the original question, Marks Models and Leslie are effectively creating an "Irish Railroad Range" with Marks proposed UTA Jinty and Marks and Leslie's re-liveried Dapol wagons.

Personally I would not get too hung up on having Irish locos and stock when starting out on a limited budget, apart from the initial train set (Triang Hornby British outline) most of the locos and stock bought in my teens and twenties were either second hand or clearance sale. (Palitoy and Airfix severely over-estimated demand resulting in a glut of British outline rtr in the early 1980s.

I got more enjoyment out of scratchbuilding Irish station buildings than trying to run trains and shifted to N Gauge in the late 70s out of frustration trying to build a OO gauge Irish layout in a box-bedroom. After a false start with an 8X2 continuous run N gauge layout based on Kilmessan Junction (folding baseboard problem), .

I built a U shaped terminus to fiddle yard layout around 3 walls of an 11X11 bedroom, featuring a medium sized provincial terminal, a scenic section with a large viaduct and a small junction station. N gauge locos was originally British outline rtr, though I later re-painted the BR Mk1 coaches and diesels in CIE black and tan scheme and kitbashed some American diesels into reasonable models of GM BoBos and a 001.  Although built over 40 years ago the N gauge bedroom layout was probably my most successful layout in terms of successful operation and presentation almost but not-quite completing the scenic works.

Buildings can be constructed using traditional techniques in cardboard or printed on card using IT such as Kevin Sweeney's excellent models of buildings in Cavan and Longford.

I moved back to 4mm mainly to build models of Irish locos and stock, while shifting to American outline N as its easier to model a railway in a landscape in N than OO

[Georgeconna]

Mind you, a "G" is probably a better option, though Silverfox apparently don't make them any more. 

Interesting, Wonder if they have been tipped off as one maybe coming out, Reminds me like a certain Beet wagon kit was not available coming up to the release of the IRM one.

We may never know!!

[BosKonay]

It’s not heavily used but

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/classifieds/

Is completely free to place ads for sale and wanted 

[Blaine]

On 5/12/2023 at 1:33 PM, Westcorkrailway said:

I personally don’t think so, but Gerry’s Hoeys stuff is by far the next best thing. Sure certainly some of the locos don’t look as they should but just from a quick look at his adverts page. An NIR C clas for 100, a G class at 30 quid. Irish cement for 25 a wagon. Bulleid wagons for 20 ect.

 

Reminds me of the vodafone ad on the telly with the girl playing the violin - 'that was erm, wonderful'

[skinner75]

Still looks way more legit than the Lima repaint of the Class 25 with its three window panes!

Edited December 7, 2023 by skinner75

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Mind you, a "G" is probably a better option, though Silverfox apparently don't make them any more. 

Interesting, Wonder if they have been tipped off as one maybe coming out, Reminds me like a certain Beet wagon kit was not available coming up to the release of the IRM one.

We may never know!!

I like your train of thought!