IRM Latest! The High Queens of Ireland - IRM Celebrates 10th Birthday With GSR 800s

[Flying Snail]

Just back home from Malahide ..... all I can say is wow! Well done to the IRM lads on 10 years in business - what a model to celebrate!

The sample looked well on the layout I have to say.

Also, thanks to you, and all at the museum for hosting us - it was a really nice evening!!

[GSWR 90]

19 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I’ll take GSWR 90 to go with my maebh. 2 extremes of size next to eachother 

This GSWR postcard will look even more impressive with 90 and an 800!

But seriously, discussing other locos doesn't detract from the fact that we're extremely lucky that everyone at IRM went to so much effort to make such an amazing model Any RTR model of an 800, let alone one of such incredible detail, would have been unimaginable just a relatively short time ago

Edited Monday at 22:07 by GSWR 90

[Horsetan]

1 hour ago, Georgeconna said:

....the price is a bit of a pill...

The price isn't that far short of Continental HO sums so the sooner everyone gets used to these price levels, the better.

No mention of 21mm gauge compatibility, so I'm carrying on with the SSM kit.

[Mol_PMB]

Just a thought. Arguably, Phoenix is missing from that list.
So are the surviving narrow gauge Guinness steam locos. 

[Bob229]

Wow. Stunning model of Meabh 

Happy Birthday IRM

[Rapid130RS]

I thought maybe an 800, the speculation on the other chat made me think no, too ambitious. 

It's a great idea, and like all IRM, it will be an event when my order arrives. Definitely worth buying this unique model.

Well done @BosKonayand all at IRM.

Now...what can this haul? Will there be a new range of passenger stock? 

 

[Rapid130RS]

13 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

The price isn't that far short of Continental HO sums so the sooner everyone gets used to these price levels, the better.

Interestingly....I recall a very basic Lima 08 shunter and oval with 3 wagons setting my parents back £125 punts in 1991, which is €256 now, adjusted for inflation. The increase in quality though can justify the increase in the cost of modern models. 

 

[Georgeconna]

56 minutes ago, Killian Keane said:

Waiting on Bury Curtis & Kennedy no.36 personally!

Rapido Territory

43 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

Just back home from Malahide ..... all I can say is wow! Well done to the IRM lads on 10 years in business - what a model to celebrate!

The sample looked well on the layout I have to say.

Also, thanks to you, and all at the museum for hosting us - it was a really nice evening!!

what happened in Malahide then? Cream Crackers and cheese and a video of the launch?

 

24 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

The price isn't that far short of Continental HO sums so the sooner everyone gets used to these price levels, the better.

No mention of 21mm gauge compatibility, so I'm carrying on with the SSM kit.

Would be mental if it had an option of one with a Steam generator in it...

[minister_for_hardship]

Wallet takes another hit.

*Cough* technically only one was a mythological queen, the other two goddesses...

[Flying Snail]

2 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

Rapido Territory

what happened in Malahide then? Cream Crackers and cheese and a video of the launch?

 

There were fancy cream crackers - octagon shaped, and cheese and various meats to go on them. And chicken goujons .. and plenty more besides 

[meathdane]

Guess the 800s will be making a cameo on Bantry. Maebh and Maca ordered. Fantastic looking model, and from the videos I saw, a great runner too! Well done to IRM, can't wait for the next 10 years! 

[Old Blarney]

Good evening  Gentlemen,

Question.  

GSR800 - 800 Maedb - CIE (FS) - DCC Sound.

 Can you tell this aged fellow what (FS)  is?

I run a DCC layout at home and have Old Blarney, (an exhibition layout, presently in storage) 

Help Please!

 

Old Blarney.

 

[Flying Snail]

 

15 minutes ago, Old Blarney said:

Good evening  Gentlemen,

Question.  

GSR800 - 800 Maedb - CIE (FS) - DCC Sound.

 Can you tell this aged fellow what (FS)  is?

I run a DCC layout at home and have Old Blarney, (an exhibition layout, presently in storage) 

Help Please!

 

Old Blarney.

 

The FS stands for 'Flying Snail' ... some of the dark green CIE liveries don't have it, some do

Edited Monday at 23:00 by Flying Snail

[Patrick Davey]

Pricing observation: 

STG£300.00 (minus a penny) for the basic DCC-ready version, that’s only £25.00 more than what I paid for the OO Works GNR U class 4-4-0 back in 2016.

I don’t know much about these things, but allowing for inflation, and bearing in mind the much larger size of this locomotive, plus the insane quality and huge level of detail, that seems to me to be very decent pricing?

And yes I know OO Works are a much smaller operation than IRM/AS, with fewer resources.

[GSR 800]

29 minutes ago, Old Blarney said:

Good evening  Gentlemen,

Question.  

GSR800 - 800 Maedb - CIE (FS) - DCC Sound.

 Can you tell this aged fellow what (FS)  is?

I run a DCC layout at home and have Old Blarney, (an exhibition layout, presently in storage) 

Help Please!

 

Old Blarney.

 

Edit: Flying Snail, as mentioned by...well...Flying Snail...

Maedb looked to have received a fresh coat of paint in the early 60s following her preservation (though its hard to track what went on exactly).

No longer technically being an in service CIE locomotive, she received no snail. The G S was a Cultra addition.

I'd be very interested in any additional photographs, audio, history, etc, that the Lads have gathered to bring the models to life. It's interesting to see a clearer image of the photo of an out of service B1a at Glanmire Road shed. This featured in A Second Glance as being Tailte, but the clearer scan shows it's almost certainly Macha, which fits much better with the evidence, as there are several other photos of 801 at the shed during the late 50s.

The class was somewhat camera shy it seemed, Tailte by far the most, strange considering she racked up the highest mileage of the three!

 

11 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

Pricing observation: 

STG£300.00 (minus a penny) for the basic DCC-ready version, that’s only £25.00 more than what I paid for the OO Works GNR U class 4-4-0 back in 2016.

I don’t know much about these things, but allowing for inflation, and bearing in mind the much larger size of this locomotive, plus the insane quality and huge level of detail, that seems to me to be very decent pricing?

And yes I know OO Works are a much smaller operation than IRM/AS, with fewer resources.

I'll be selling off a rake of British stuff to help pay for them!

Edited Monday at 23:15 by GSR 800

[Horsetan]

48 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Just a thought. Arguably, Phoenix is missing from that list.
So are the surviving narrow gauge Guinness steam locos. 

Funny you should mention Guinness. I looked at the Geoghegan engines and wondered how it might be possible to cram in all that motion and a motor and drivetrain into something that small.

Fancy drawing up a Geoghegan etch and see where it takes you?

[Patrick Davey]

Must say I am enjoying the reaction to this!

[Old Blarney]

Thank you.  So obvious. 

I should have remembered the CIÉ emblem, "Speed on Wheels" was irrelevantly referred to as "The Flying Snail" hence (FS).

It's the excitement that gets one at my years. Will I be alive when this model is delivered? Having recently ordered rolling stock from the Lads, am I concerned? Yes.  "The Department for Finance (The War Office) noticed that transaction within five minutes of my placing my order.  She is more than likely to Murder me after I place this forthcoming Order. Any betting on my survival  to take delivery 50/1 against?

Seriously. Thank you IRM.

[Horsetan]

31 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

...Would be mental if it had an option of one with a Steam generator in it...

Send a sample to TRS Trains - if anyone can cram in a dynamic generator, he can.

1 minute ago, Old Blarney said:

....  "The Department for Finance (The War Office) noticed that transaction within five minutes of my placing my order.  She is more than likely to Murder me after I place this forthcoming Order. Any betting on my survival  to take delivery 50/1 against?

I'd suggest you stipulate in your Will that the model is to be buried with you. That way, you can take it with you when you go.....

[GSR 800]

I'm here squinting at the CAD and noticed Maedb even has the smokebox door dart protruding as prototypical...There's not a thing ye've missed!

My one question, presumably the reversing lever will be a metal separately fitted detail?

I'm very interested to see how the loco-tender coupling arrangement will work.

[Westcorkrailway]

52 minutes ago, meathdane said:

Guess the 800s will be making a cameo on Bantry. Maebh and Maca ordered. Fantastic looking model, and from the videos I saw, a great runner too! Well done to IRM, can't wait for the next 10 years! 

Oh my god I need to see this

Also, since I genuinly don’t know/can’t tell. CIE livery on steam loco. Was the lining white or cream/straw coloured as the IRM diagrams show? 

[GSR 800]

11 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Oh my god I need to see this

Also, since I genuinly don’t know/can’t tell. CIE livery on steam loco. Was the lining white or cream/straw coloured as the IRM diagrams show? 

From what I can tell, its a creamy white 

It has a warm tone, and so often shows up as outright yellow in photos, but it is a creamy white.

[Westcorkrailway]

Only one man to call 

@jhb171achill 

[Mayner]

2 hours ago, Wexford70 said:

What coaches would they have pulled and which configuration?

Drew Donaldson wrote about 800 Class working in a "Decade of Steam" published by the RPSI in the early 1970s. I have mislaid the relevant pages but the 800 appear to have performed at their best hauling 12-14 coach trains during the Summer 1939 timetable with its fast timings and didn't steam(perform) with the lighter train loadings of the early 1950s. 

Its possible that the GSR initially used its recently introduced Bredin "Steel Train" complete with matching Luggage Van & re-panneled early GSR/GSWR Dining Car on the Mail behind 800, but more likely to have used a mix of Bredin, GSR & GSWR stock in normal service, the Mail would have included Travelling Post Office (TPO) & Mail Storage (Parcel Vans) in addition to passenger carrying stock.

The 800s sometimes worked the short lived Amien's St-Cork section of the Enterprise during the early 50 which appears to have loaded to 8 coaches, the GNR and CIE each supplying a rake of coaches. The GNR a uniform rake of "Flush Sided" modern stock, the CIE Enterprise a mixture of "modern" CIE & GSR Bredin and vintage GSWR coaches.

Its unlikely that the 800 Class hauled Park-Royal or Laminate stock in regular service the 4-6-0s were withdrawn from top-link passenger service and some withdrawn following the introduction of the A Class in 1955 before the introduction of the Park Royals. 

Drew Donaldson wrote of the afternoon Dublin-Cork Perishable (Passenger Coach, Non-Passenger Stock fish meat vans, horseboxes etc)  being the only reliable way to travel behind steam from Dublin to Cork in the late 50s. The train was sometimes hauled by an 800 Class, on one occasion the train engine was steaming so poorly a second 800 Class was borrowed off a goods to double head the Perishible.  The passengers were transferred to a following diesel hauled train, the crew "politely refusing" the enthusiasts request to remain on the double headed Perishible, who watched the double headed 800s departing barely capable of steaming for more than a couple of minutes at a time, Drew commented that both locos were in poor mechanical condition and the crews too inexperienced to operate a large complex loco like an 800.

The general comment was that  in their final days the 800 Class were relegated to working 'featherweight" Beet Trains so possibly an 800 with a short rake of Bulleid Opens.

[Westcorkrailway]

The very concept of double headed 800s is bizzare! 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Oh my god I need to see this

Also, since I genuinly don’t know/can’t tell. CIE livery on steam loco. Was the lining white or cream/straw coloured as the IRM diagrams show? 

Yellow and black in the GSRs unique 800 class livery.

Black and white in CIE times, not cream. Same as all of the other (minority of) CIE logos which became green.

[jhb171achill]

 

 

A few random observations this evening, as everything was getting set up within the museum….

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, Westcorkrailway said:

The very concept of double headed 800s is bizzare! 

The enthusiasts were not impressed! Drew wrote of the locos being incapable of steaming for a few minutes at a time and the two drivers having to open and close the regulators of the two locos in sequence to physically move the train, he described it as the most humiliating treatment he had ever seen dished out to a steam locomotive that a few years earlier were the pride of the system.

To get back to Wexford 70s original question about what coaches and configurations.

With no suitable RTR coaches and few suitable kits available it would require a lot of determination and time to build a suitable rake of coaches to run behind an 800 in normal mainline service.

For someone wanting not strictly accurate 'layout coaches" to run in a long train behind an 800 Class the Hornby LMS Stanier coaches are similar in general outline to the Bredin coaches introduced during the mid-30s and the Bachmann early LMS corridor coach broadly similar to late GSWR/early GSR coaches which often ran mixed in the same train and the late GSR livery not dissimilar to LMS lined Crimson Lake. Someone modelling the CIE era would need to repaint their coaches, though Bachmann-Murphy Models early LMS stock may be occasionally available on the second hand market.

Studio Scale models produce Bredin and GNR coaches (as used on the Enterprise) in kit form which take time and determination to assemble, 6 wheel stock particularly Brakes are likely to have run behind an 800Class. Vehicles like TPOs (Travelling Post Office) & other Non-Passenger Stock than ran on the Mails are likely to involve scratchbuilding, the GSR built on 'modern" Bredin Full Brake to run with the Steel Train, Full Brakes were earlier GSR/GSWR Stock.

Perhaps IRM may produce a rtr rake of Bredin or early CIE coaches to run behind their 800 Class or even a late GSWR/early GSR side corridor coach.

Edited 23 hours ago by Mayner

[Westcorkrailway]

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Yellow and black in the GSRs unique 800 class livery.

Black and white in CIE times, not cream. Same as all of the other (minority of) CIE logos which became green.

interesting cause in the diagrams of the CIE livery that we have on the website. The lining appears yellow on CIE liveries 

[Mol_PMB]

8 hours ago, Horsetan said:

Funny you should mention Guinness. I looked at the Geoghegan engines and wondered how it might be possible to cram in all that motion and a motor and drivetrain into something that small.

Fancy drawing up a Geoghegan etch and see where it takes you?

In response to your post I have had a look at the photos of these. They are remarkably complex and the frame and axlebox arrangement is very unusual, which would be a challenge in most scales. Although the main frames are plate frames the full height of the loco, the axleboxes are mounted in a separate set of bar frames which may form part of the suspension. The locos are also tiny. What scale/gauge combination were you thinking of? The prototype was 1'10" gauge and because of the position of the wheels immediately inside the frames and the transmission arrangement with vertical rods you couldn't use a track gauge wider than prototype without affecting the whole shape of the loco. 7mm scale on 12mm track? In that scale it ought to be 12.83mm but 12mm is an established gauge and would allow slightly broader wheel tyres.

Or you could have something a bit bigger:

Guinness loco G3

[Wexford70]

6 hours ago, Mayner said:

With no suitable RTR coaches and few suitable kits available it would require a lot of determination and time to build a suitable rake of coaches to run behind an 800 in normal mainline service.

Thanks for the excellent clarity on the rolling stock. The lack of carriages would be the one reservation I would have about purchasing one of these amazing models. 

[Mol_PMB]

14 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Thanks for the excellent clarity on the rolling stock. The lack of carriages would be the one reservation I would have about purchasing one of these amazing models. 

Perhaps IRM need to add one of these to the product range - perfect for the Queens, and remained in use until about 1970. Four liveries to offer...

GSWR Corridor Third - Irish Models - Irish Railway Modeller

 

[Flying Snail]

I'd say there's an opening now for some of the skilled CAD and 3D print enthusiasts here to produce GSR/early CIE/GSWR era rolling stock! Especially so as the prototypes were often produced in small numbers

Edited 16 hours ago by Flying Snail

[Galteemore]

58 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

In response to your post I have had a look at the photos of these. They are remarkably complex and the frame and axlebox arrangement is very unusual, which would be a challenge in most scales. Although the main frames are plate frames the full height of the loco, the axleboxes are mounted in a separate set of bar frames which may form part of the suspension. The locos are also tiny. What scale/gauge combination were you thinking of? The prototype was 1'10" gauge and because of the position of the wheels immediately inside the frames and the transmission arrangement with vertical rods you couldn't use a track gauge wider than prototype without affecting the whole shape of the loco. 7mm scale on 12mm track? In that scale it ought to be 12.83mm but 12mm is an established gauge and would allow slightly broader wheel tyres.

Or you could have something a bit bigger:

Guinness loco G3

Regner do a live steam one in 32/45mm gauge 

[Westcorkrailway]

6 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

I'd say there's an opening now for some of the skilled CAD and 3D print enthusiasts here to produce GSR/early CIE/GSWR era rolling stock! Especially so as the prototypes were often produced in small numbers

Exactly. Perhaps somone using Ral colours extracted from the hattons coaches/800 one could repaint appropriate British stock. Thats what I did for years before the genesis coaches and it was perfect

 

im sure I’ve seen photos of CIE full brake 6 wheelers running behind 800