An idea concerning 121s

[UP6936]

Hi all

I was just thinking, if Mr Murphy eventually makes a 121, would there be possibility of packaged pairs, with one motor loco and one dummy? As im sure most people will want a pair (maybe 124 and 134) but you dont actually need two locos to haul a model rake, and it would make them more affordable?

The dummy units could also run with the Murphy's 141/181 class

I know I would put my name down in a flash if this happened, anyone else thinking along the same lines?

[Warbonnet]

Believe it or not dummies cost nearly the same to make as powered units. British manufacturers looked at it before and felt there was no economic case.

 

I know I would personally want all locos powered for extra pulling power.

[Horsetan]

Why would you want your powered 121 to waste some of its haulage power in towing a dummy unit?

[craven1508]

As we all know, Paddy Murphy does,nt do things in half-measures,

when released the 121 will all be powered, what a mouth watering prospect!

Edited January 8, 2014 by Garfield
See rule 9 here: http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/79-Website-Guidelines-Rules

[Glenderg]

Why would you want your powered 121 to waste some of its haulage power in towing a dummy unit?

 

So it can pull a rake of non-existant rtr beet wagons silly.

[Horsetan]

So it can pull a rake of non-existant rtr beet wagons silly.

 

*facepalm*

[Glenderg]

*facepalm*

[RedRich]

I remember a similar question being asked many years ago regarding class 20's on a BR forum and someone had also asked Bachmann the same question regarding a DRS pair at Warley.. As Fran has said the answer was, it would cost as much.

 

As far as a twin pack is concerned, I think a twin pack of 124 and 134 as they were before being withdrawn would be nice.

 

Rich,

[Broithe]

As far as a twin pack is concerned, I think a twin pack of 124 and 134 as they were before being withdrawn would be nice.

 

Definitely a good plan..

[Train model]

Let's get the locos first and worry about the motors later

[Railer]

PM has to do 124 and 134 in the IE livery, they were iconic and spotters when they were the last 121s. But one thing I'd like for the 121s is to have the class leader in the first livery carried by them. It's a thing I have and it's a pity 071 and 201 were not released in their original liveries. 141,181 and 111 got looked after though.

[Dave]

It will be quite some time before we see a 121 from Paddy, there is still a lot of stock to shift before he will do a production run on the 121's.

[WRENNEIRE]

Just as an aside to this Wrenn produced a Class 20, £65 - £95 powered

The unpowered one usually makes around £150 - £200, smaller numbers made and a retooled chassis,

Not going to happen with the 121 methinks

[Georgeconna]

Dapol did some N gauge Dummy units that had a lower cost that the powered one.

 

A few guys I know have gutted their 141s to run as a dummy behind a powered unit as there was a bit of performance difference after a while

 

A Dummy unit Makes sense to me once the cost can come down, If not then no point..

[aclass007]

Hi all

I was just thinking, if Mr Murphy eventually makes a 121, would there be possibility of packaged pairs, with one motor loco and one dummy? As im sure most people will want a pair (maybe 124 and 134) but you dont actually need two locos to haul a model rake, and it would make them more affordable?

The dummy units could also run with the Murphy's 141/181 class

I know I would put my name down in a flash if this happened, anyone else thinking along the same lines?

 

Yes, I also thought about this... Even back when the 141's were about to be released, as they ran in pairs so often too. But, it appears from the replies that it's not a very practical idea, especially as a cost saving measure...

[jhb171achill]

My nephew got a kit a few years ago and made one up unpowered... Kits might be the way to go for that sort of thing.

[BosKonay]

I've a whitemetal 121, not motorised so she can 'double' with the 141s...

 

Still, you have to make sure she's well tucked behind so you can't see the comparison

[aclass007]

 

A few guys I know have gutted their 141s to run as a dummy behind a powered unit as there was a bit of performance difference after a while

 

 

Gutted sounds drastic! How much would need to be done to enable a MM 141 to free wheel, yet leaving as much of the running gear as possible untouched, in case the loco was to be returned to working order?

I suppose the weight of the 'dead' loco in a train would be the issue then.....

[Niles]

Whatever about having them as dummies out of the box, I don't see the point in going to the trouble of de-motoring an existing model. Seems like a lot of hassle for no real benefit.

[irishthump]

Gutted sounds drastic! How much would need to be done to enable a MM 141 to free wheel, yet leaving as much of the running gear as possible untouched, in case the loco was to be returned to working order?

I suppose the weight of the 'dead' loco in a train would be the issue then.....

 

Simple enough. Just replace the wheelsets with ones without gears on the axles. If you're using DCC then you can still operate the lights. But you're right, the weight may be an issue.

[Dave]

If you are using DCC you don't need to strip out a loco, just double head them and have twice the pulling power

[irishthump]

If you are using DCC you don't need to strip out a loco, just double head them and have twice the pulling power

 

Yeah but I've read about US modellers turning one loco of a pair into a dummy because they couldn't get them to speed match.

[Dave]

Yeah but I've read about US modellers turning one loco of a pair into a dummy because they couldn't get them to speed match.

 

It's just a matter of setting up the CV's on the decoder properly and using the same decoder in the two locos, I run a pair of 141's together and when they are uncoupled they run in perfect unison.

[irishthump]

It's just a matter of setting up the CV's on the decoder properly and using the same decoder in the two locos, I run a pair of 141's together and when they are uncoupled they run in perfect unison.

 

I realise that, and I have 3 141's all fitted with the same decoder and they run flawlessly. But as was said you can get differences in performance after a while even with 2 identical locos. True this can be sorted with the basic cv's in most cases but the more drastic ones you have to resort to setting up separate speed tables and I've read of some US modellers (very experiences DCC users) who would rather turn one of them into a dummy unit than faff around with speed tables. Granted they're running consists of up to 4 locos so the loss of power is negated.

[aclass007]

Simple enough. Just replace the wheelsets with ones without gears on the axles. If you're using DCC then you can still operate the lights. But you're right, the weight may be an issue.

 

Replacing the wheelsets is a brilliantly simple solution..... Does anyone know of suitable wheelsets that could be used?

[murrayec]

Hi Guys

 

The gears can be usually removed by- pulling off one wheel and then the gear and then replace the wheel ensuring the correct back-to-back wheel dimension is achieved. The gears are generally tolerance fit on the axle.

 

Don't remove the gears from the wheel sets without disconnecting the motor power- if you run the model with electrical pickups working- for lights and chip control the motor will be screaming along not under load- I reckon a motor like that cannot last to long and will most likely let you know by melting down! Disconnect the power to the motor.

 

murrayec

[Blaine]

Replacing the wheelsets is a brilliantly simple solution..... Does anyone know of suitable wheelsets that could be used?

 

Take the motor out......... Most analogue transformers will handle 2 motors on the same track easily anyway