OO works announce GNRI U Class

[popeye]

I don't run steam loco's but that is beautiful.

[patrick]

If they ever produce a J15 I could see silver Metrovicks and green railcars in my future!

[leslie10646]

If they ever produce a J15 I could see silver Metrovicks and green railcars in my future!

 

Patrick

 

I hope that Roderick & Rebecca will indeed do a "101" (J15) in the near future - I have no idea at what level of sales the cost of mastering a loco makes sense, but I can tell you that when I ordered a second U Class last Saturday it was No.82 - as my first was No.3 - you can all do the maths - and that's a pretty good sales record, in my book.

 

While I personally have no particular interest in a 101 Class, it's an obvious "next" if they decide that the Irish market is worth the bother.

 

I've no idea what the order book for the UG is, but SOME guys may opt for a second - they were used on passenger and goods. Certainly I have two of a couple of goods classes.

 

Leslie

 

PS Come on then Popeye - I am a dyed in the wool steam man but I have a model of every Irish diesel on my layout!!! AND still await another 70th present of one of Paddy's grey single ended yankees.

[jhb171achill]

Worth having several 70th birthdays, Leslie!!

[leslie10646]

Worth having several 70th birthdays, Leslie!!

Yeah, John, I'm making a habit of it!

[Mayner]

If they ever produce a J15 I could see silver Metrovicks and green railcars in my future!

 

I think a larger more modern GSW locos such as the 321 & 257 class would be a better option than a J15 for a rtr resin & die cast loco.

 

 

Its challenging to fit a reasonably powerful motor inside a J15 boiler and find enough space to add weight and a decoder, it will be interesting to see how Hornby? will motorise the new Dean Goods.

 

Although he has a good head start I seem to be going through the same phase as Leslie explaining large packages containing steam locos arriving from the United States

[Dunluce Castle]

 

Its challenging to fit a reasonably powerful motor inside a J15 boiler and find enough space to add weight and a decoder, it will be interesting to see how Hornby? will motorise the new Dean Goods.

 

 

Hornby did a great job with their GER J15, the body and cab are both made from die cast metal and the motor is still able to be powerful enough. Hornby aren't updating the dean goods, it's Oxford rail, they making a brand new model of it.

[jhb171achill]

Re the links to photos of locos above....

 

The coach behind it certainly isn't a Pullman car, as the caption suggests.

 

It is the single most luxurious carriage ever built in Ireland, the former MGWR Ddirector's Saloon, which survived until the early 60s, largely in storage, and retaining fully lined MGWR 1918-25 maroon until the mid 50s, when it got CIE's post-1955 lighter green.

 

Disgracefully, CIE scrapped it about 1960-ish.

Edited August 11, 2016 by jhb171achill

[Kirley]

My Locomotive arrived today. I opened it up to see about the size of decoder I would need and had a look about wiring it up. It's apparently done in 'American Wiring', the Tender picking up the Negative and the Loco body the Positive. This is the way I intend to tackle it, and if you see difficulties please let me know.

 

[DiveController]

I have no idea at what level of sales the cost of mastering a loco makes sense, but I can tell you that when I ordered a second U Class last Saturday it was No.82 - as my first was No.3 - you can all do the maths - and that's a pretty good sales record, in my book.

 

I've no idea what the order book for the UG is, but SOME guys may opt for a second - they were used on passenger and goods. Certainly I have two of a couple of goods classes.

 

Well, my order during the week was 382! Whether it's batch three, No. 82 or whether they're sequentially numbered it's become very popular. Won't have her until maybe November but still in time for Christmas and there will be lots of recommendations on the site for decoders etc. by then

[Old Blarney]

Dive Controller,

 

Well, my order during the week was 382! Whether it's batch three, No. 82 or whether they're sequentially numbered it's become very popular. Won't have her until maybe November but still in time for Christmas and there will be lots of recommendations on the site for decoders etc. by then

 

Unfortunately you may be mistaken regarding the volume of U Class Locomotives manufactured by OO Works. I spoke with Mr Bruce, yesterday, 12th August, 2016 on this matter amongst others. The number of Locomotives of this class that have been manufactured by/for him is vastly lower than the number you state. I am not prepared to give the number as it was provided to me in confidence, however, I was astonished that it was such a small number. And bye-the-way my number, Receipt No 301. So, it is the Receipt Number, not the Locomotive Number.

 

Performance and Balance of this Locomotive.

 

Perhaps I have been unfortunate, but my experience of the running of this - Beautiful Looking Locomotive - has been one of utter frustration and disappointment. The bogie was persistent in its determination and refusal to have its rear wheels turn, furthermore it was also determined to derail at points, crossovers, double slips and curves. Worse than this, the rear driving wheels would derail on curves.

I took this locomotive to my Model railway Club to run it on Old Blarney and its new Fiddle Yard. Members present remarked favourably upon the looks of this Locomotive but immediately noticed its "Nodding Donkey" action. When running the engine tipped foreword and backwards, just like a "Nodding Donkey." When brought to a halt, it then tipped in the direction of the cab, and sat down on the track with a noticeable thud.

 

The consensus, too much weight to the front of the locomotive. We experimented throughout the evening to resolve the problems we were experiencing with this particular locomotive. Having spoken to Roderick Bruce, OO Works, and taken his advice about adjusting the bar connecting the Locomotive's bogie to the locomotive in-order to resolve the problem of - balance - (or more correctly imbalance) to no avail, we then inserted a 10 Gram car tyre weight to the inside of the cab roof. Guess what? The locomotives rear driving wheels now sat properly on the track. Result the engine no longer derailed on curves as it had previously done whilst travelling in either direction.

 

I would like to know if other users of this product are also experiencing the problems I have outlined with this locomotive!

Regarding the Pick-ups, because it only takes power on one side, Right on tender, Left on Locomotive, I find the performance to be erratic and wheel cleaning needs to take place far too frequently to ensure smooth running. Any suggestions here please? Yes I run DCC and will upgrade to a decoder that has a capacitor.

 

It is a lovely looking locomotive.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Old Blarney

[DiveController]

The number of Locomotives of this class that have been manufactured by/for him is vastly lower .... I was astonished that it was such a small number.

I suppose they are producing for a niche market and the price is not cheap (in absolute terms) although as Mayner states it's probably good value provided the performance of the product can approximate the running qualities expected of modern models.

 

Performance and Balance of this Locomotive.

 

Perhaps I have been unfortunate, but my experience of the running of this - Beautiful Looking Locomotive - has been one of utter frustration and disappointment. The bogie was persistent in its determination and refusal to have its rear wheels turn, furthermore it was also determined to derail at points, crossovers, double slips and curves. Worse than this, the rear driving wheels would derail on curves.

I took this locomotive to my Model railway Club to run it on Old Blarney and its new Fiddle Yard. Members present remarked favourably upon the looks of this Locomotive but immediately noticed its "Nodding Donkey" action. When running the engine tipped foreword and backwards, just like a "Nodding Donkey." When brought to a halt, it then tipped in the direction of the cab, and sat down on the track with a noticeable thud.

 

The consensus, too much weight to the front of the locomotive. We experimented throughout the evening to resolve the problems we were experiencing with this particular locomotive. Having spoken to Roderick Bruce, OO Works, and taken his advice about adjusting the bar connecting the Locomotive's bogie to the locomotive in-order to resolve the problem of - balance - (or more correctly imbalance) to no avail, we then inserted a 10 Gram car tyre weight to the inside of the cab roof. Guess what? The locomotives rear driving wheels now sat properly on the track. Result the engine no longer derailed on curves as it had previously done whilst travelling in either direction.

 

I would like to know if other users of this product are also experiencing the problems I have outlined with this locomotive!

Regarding the Pick-ups, because it only takes power on one side, Right on tender, Left on Locomotive, I find the performance to be erratic and wheel cleaning needs to take place far too frequently to ensure smooth running. Any suggestions here please? Yes I run DCC and will upgrade to a decoder that has a capacitor.

I'm a little surprised (and a little concerned having placed my order) to hear that the product ran so badly overall. It would be reasonable to expect that a hand made model would have been checked and tested over some track work that at least the majority of modelers would use and should run well. More importantly, I'm wondering about the responses of the manufacturer in offering 'after sales' support for your product that is essentially defective/not fit for purpose when delivered. I do not possess your modeling skill not do I have the support of a local club, and since the company does not accept electronic forms of payment, redress in a situation such as yours might prove difficult after some real distance buying (I'm in the US).

I had asked OOworks if they could add a little more weight so that it might provide an improved tractive effort on a gradient. Apparently it is difficult to do due to space constraints within, but I guess I can add 10g at least! I had considered ordering the UG class also but I'll hold off for now until I see my own U class running well.

Is the problem that the wheels on the loco or tender are not electrically isolated from each other, hence separate tender and loco pickup for opposite polarities rather than all wheel pickup? A Stay Alive decoder should certainly help

Edited August 13, 2016 by DiveController

[Noel]

. . .

Performance and Balance of this Locomotive.

 

Perhaps I have been unfortunate, but my experience of the running of this - Beautiful Looking Locomotive - has been one of utter frustration and disappointment. The bogie was persistent in its determination and refusal to have its rear wheels turn, furthermore it was also determined to derail at points, crossovers, double slips and curves. Worse than this, the rear driving wheels would derail on curves.

I took this locomotive to my Model railway Club to run it on Old Blarney and its new Fiddle Yard. Members present remarked favourably upon the looks of this Locomotive but immediately noticed its "Nodding Donkey" action. When running the engine tipped foreword and backwards, just like a "Nodding Donkey." When brought to a halt, it then tipped in the direction of the cab, and sat down on the track with a noticeable thud.

 

The consensus, too much weight to the front of the locomotive. We experimented throughout the evening to resolve the problems we were experiencing with this particular locomotive. Having spoken to Roderick Bruce, OO Works, and taken his advice about adjusting the bar connecting the Locomotive's bogie to the locomotive in-order to resolve the problem of - balance - (or more correctly imbalance) to no avail, we then inserted a 10 Gram car tyre weight to the inside of the cab roof. Guess what? The locomotives rear driving wheels now sat properly on the track. Result the engine no longer derailed on curves as it had previously done whilst travelling in either direction.

 

I would like to know if other users of this product are also experiencing the problems I have outlined with this locomotive!

Regarding the Pick-ups, because it only takes power on one side, Right on tender, Left on Locomotive, I find the performance to be erratic and wheel cleaning needs to take place far too frequently to ensure smooth running. Any suggestions here please? Yes I run DCC and will upgrade to a decoder that has a capacitor.

 

It is a lovely looking locomotive.

 

Hi Old Blarney, when I saw the photo of the chassis on Kirley's post and the lack of things like a fly wheel I wondered if this was going to be another case of a fine scale model that looks great but not capable of running well and certainly not scale smoothness. However I decided not to post a query about the chassis as I didn't want to appear negative about a new product. Unfortunately your feedback confirms my suspicions. IMHO higher priced fine scale models need to run as well as they look and especially smooth slow running and scale acceleration and deceleration without any porpoising or jerking. No point in a model looking authentic if it runs like a childs toy. However I'm glad you have managed to improve the running with the weight. 4-4-0 chassis really need to be all wheel pickup rather than one side on chassis and one on tender. Does the front bogie have pick ups or just the two driving wheels?

[Old Blarney]

Dive Controller,

 

Perhaps, I have been unlucky! For the sake of all others who have purchased this Locomotive, I hope this is the case? I shall replace the existing Decoder with one that also has a Capacitor when my Man returns from his holidays. We shall also explore the possibility of fitting additional Pick-ups to the Driving Wheels. With regard to the UG suffering from similar inconsistencies, this is not a concern of mine. The reasoning being this; it is an 0-6-0. Thus, it will not have the problem of an imbalance of weight due to the wheel distribution. Funnily enough, I had expressed my concerns regarding the UG on this matter to my experienced Locomotive Builder, and it was he, and other Club members, who explained the reasons for the existing faults and the reason why these should not be replicated on the UG.

 

My reasons for raising these issued relating to the U is for General Information. Having explained the problems I was experiencing to Roderick Bruce, OO Works, he told me he was prepared to accept responsibility and have the Locomotive to him at his expense. He did insist that the problem would be rectified by carrying-out at minor readjustment to the positioning of the bar between the front bogie and the Locomotive. As we say here in Scotland, "I have my doubts on that one!"

 

She is running for the moment. She has improved but is not perfect by any manner, or any means. She also requires her wheels to be cleaned constantly. To the naked eye there is only a little dirt on her wheels, so the problem may be the way she picks-up power from the track. Each of my 4-4-0, 0-6-0, 0-6-2 and even my wee 0-4-0 CIE G Class whizz around each of my tracks happily, so its not the track that is the problem.

 

Happy modelling.

 

David.

[Old Blarney]

Noel,

 

I did a wee test this afternoon where I lifted the driving wheels off the track so the only contact with the rails was through the front bogie wheels and the tender wheels. The driving wheels were turning when I did this however, now that I think about it, I don't believe I created a situation where it was only the bogie that was making contact. I' try this tomorrow. Too tired and frustrated to do it right now (22.28 hrs).

 

David.

[Mayner]

Model 4-4-0s are nose heavy & notoriously difficult to balance, One trick is to transfer weight from the front end of the tender to the loco.

 

 

This system was used by Mike Sharman a famous and controversial English modeller for small Victorian locos in the 1960s and an integral part of the design in Studio Scale Models tender locomotive kits.

 

Personally I prefer the "American" system of power pick up through the axle to wiper pick ups which are difficult to set up and adjust on a hand built loco.

 

DCC Decoder capacitance and settings may be an issue, the loco may run better on 14 rather than 28 or 128 speed step settings, I had similar problems with a Kato RS2 with twin flywheel drive and all wheel pick up

[Kirley]

Performance and Balance of this Locomotive.

 

The consensus, too much weight to the front of the locomotive. We experimented throughout the evening to resolve the problems we were experiencing with this particular locomotive. Having spoken to Roderick Bruce, OO Works, and taken his advice about adjusting the bar connecting the Locomotive's bogie to the locomotive in-order to resolve the problem of - balance - (or more correctly imbalance) to no avail, we then inserted a 10 Gram car tyre weight to the inside of the cab roof. Guess what? The locomotives rear driving wheels now sat properly on the track. Result the engine no longer derailed on curves as it had previously done whilst travelling in either direction.

 

Thanks David, that is very informative, I have the Loco body sitting in front of me and it is extremely 'nose heavy'. To quote 'Ian Rice', "what counts is sufficient weight is acting in the right places.....as long as the weight is effectively borne by the driven axles, it doesn't necessarily have to be located above them." In a 4-4-0, as Mayner suggests, the trick is to balance the front by a weight in the Tender. In this model the Tender does not have additional weight and all the wheels are fixed.

 

I'm about to wire the Loco with a 8 pin socket but will have to wait until a decoder arrives(hopefully) early in the week. I will report back on my findings.

[Old Blarney]

U Class - OO Works.

 

Noel, OO Works Locomotive, Down, No. 205.

 

Power is transmitted to this Locomotive when:-

 

Tender Wheels and Driving Wheels are on the track. Bogie wheels are clear of the track

Tender and Bogie wheels are on the track. Driving wheels are clear of the track

Tender, Driving and Bogie Wheels are on the track.

 

Kirley,

 

I noticed the Angle of Attack in your Photograph of your Model of 205 on the rolling road you use. It is an excellent illustration of the Nose Heavy problem with this Locomotive.

 

John,

 

Thank you for your advice and Illustration.

 

I do hope we can resolve the performance problems of this Locomotive!

 

David.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Old Blarney

[Kirley]

Wired the Model for DCC but have to wait on a decoder.

 

I decided to test run it on my old layout which is DC. The track is poorly laid out and has not been cleaned for a few years.

A short video of it running firstly without addition weight then with some added. The Loco prefers to run backwards and there is an appearance of the 'Hand of God'.

 

[Weshty]

Well the sight of Kirley's video has definitely whetted my appetite.

[Noel]

Thank you for the time to make and post that video Kirley. Beautiful looking model, but unfortunately its poor running doesn't wet my appetite. I'd be curious to see how the chassis runs slowly at a scale speed of 5mph over peco point work or if it can.

[Dunluce Castle]

Once I receive my model, I can do a video of it running, and see how it performs purely on analouge.

 

Thanks for the video kirley.

[Warbonnet]

Thank you for the time to make and post that video Kirley. Beautiful looking model' date=' but unfortunately its poor running doesn't wet my appetite. I'd be curious to see how the chassis runs slowly at a scale speed of 5mph over peco point work or if it can.[/quote']

 

Could be down to the dirty track as Kieran stated.

[Old Blarney]

Could be down to the dirty track as Kieran stated.

 

This situation should certainly not arise on my home Layout as the track has been cleaned thoroughly, as have the Locomotive's wheels. Yet, there are deposits of track-dirt on the wheels of the Tender and Bogie. This occurs after a short period of operation. These deposits may be caused by the lack of weight in the tender, and having rebalanced the Locomotive by putting additional weight in the Driving Cab. The front bogie too may be lacking weight, although I've placed a dollop of Blue Tack there to add weight to it. A "Lack of Weight" can, I'm told, be a cause for dirt collecting on wheels in a very short time.

 

Oh, the joys of problems with Model Railways!!!!

[Richard EH]

I totally agree with the post downthread that transferring some of the weight from the tender to the loco in the Mike Sharman style is the way to to. From Kirley's photos it looks like that's the intent with the tender/tender coupling arrangement between tender and loco. These locos are exceptionally front heavy - you really do need to make sure that you get the centre of gravity as far back as you can.

 

An additional point (and one that has been apparent on the OOWorks Adams Radial) is that you also need sufficient space for the leading bogie to move otherwise it has the potential to lift off the front driving wheel too.

 

So I'd say definitely worth taking it steady and trying to see if you can do any of the above. I'd hasten to add that I've no connection with ooworks other than having one of these lovely looking locos on order - which I can't wait to receive!

 

Cheers for now.

 

Richard.

[DiveController]

All useful information. Thanks for all the solutions contributed on the thread

[Dhu Varren]

The arrival of the OO Works GNR(I) U Class 4-4-0 has certainly opened a can of worms regarding the running qualities of what is a superb, and expensive, RTR model of an Irish prototype. For the money paid, one would expect the model to be a superb runner, as well as a superb looker.

 

 

 

Not having seen one of these models in the flesh, I don’t know how easy it would be to fit extra pickups to both the locomotive and tender, but from the photos I have seen, it would seem to be fairly simple.

 

 

 

The second issue is the weight distribution problem. 4-4-0s are notorious for having poor pulling power, and being front end heavy. They also have a tendency, due to the short rigid wheelbase, for the front end to wiggle from side to side, even when running on straight track, and for a massive front end overhang when traversing pointwork and curves.

 

 

 

My solution to the weight distribution problem, also addresses the ‘wiggle’ and overhang problems. All my 4-4-0s are fitted so. The examples shown are old Tri-ang Hornby 2P 4-4-0 chassis fitted with Romford wheels, Mashima motors and 44-1 gearboxes.

 

 

 

A piece of nickel silver wire, or thin piano wire, is used as a vertical spring, and also acts as a lateral bogie centraliser. A hole, big enough for the wire, is drilled either vertically, or horizontally, in the chassis. The wire is inserted in the hole, and secured rigidly. For the vertical hole, I have soldered the end to a tab washer, which is secured by the chassis extension bar fixing screw. For the horizontal hole, a second hole is drilled vertically, tapped for an 8BA screw, which secures the wire. I would assume that a liberal application of superglue, or careful use of epoxy glue could do the same job, but I have no experience of this, as I prefer a 'mechanical' solution.

 

At the bogie pivot, which in my locos is a hollow rivet, a suitable pin is made up. In one example, an 8BA screw with a nut as a spacer is used. A hole is drilled horizontally through the head of the screw, large enough to allow the wire to slide freely in it. Note that the pin is only sitting in the pivot hole, and is not rigid.

 

The wire is centralised simply by bending, and then adjusted vertically by bending, until the required amount of vertical support is achieved. You can keep adding weight and adjusting the wire until you are satisfied with the resultant pulling power. The horizontal centralising qualities will allow the bogie to guide your loco into curves, just as the prototype does.

 

 

[DiveController]

Great information, David. Appreciate that

[Kirley]

Further testing the U Class locomotive on the many inclines of the Kirley Junction layout.

 

I fixed 4g of lead behind the backplate and 12g underneath the driving wheels.

 

 

As you can see in the video below the Loco can manage 5 possibily 6 coaches at the most on these inclines.

 

[Mayner]

Some weight in the tender coal space should improve power pick up and traction. I use the same drawbar arrangement and American style pick up system as OO Works on steam locos and its effective.

[Old Blarney]

Improved the running of my U by fitting a Decoder with "Stay-alive power" in the Tender and also adding additional weight to the inside of the tender. It now houses two tyre weight of 10 Tg each. The Locomotive cab also has a 10Tg tyre weight fitted to the underneath of the cab roof. These alterations (which should not be necessary in a locomotive of this price)have improved its performance beyond recognition. No nodding-donkey and no stalling on Double-Slips or Crossovers.

 

David White.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Old Blarney

[WRENNEIRE]

Does it take a 21 or 8 pin chip David?

I currently have some of both with stay alive fitted if anyone is interested

PM me for details

[Old Blarney]

The Decoder used by my expert fitter is the TCS KAM4P, eight pin decoder. I have included a link to the supplier's page -

 

http://www.digitrains.co.uk/ecommerce/locomotive-decoders/standard-oo-ho/kam4p-mh-decoder-4-function.aspx

 

Excellent service from them, far superior to that from DCC Supplies who I no longer use.

 

Oh the cost - EXPENSIVE - however the locomotive runs now that this decoder is installed in it.

[WRENNEIRE]

WOW, that is dear

€25 posted anywhere for my ones

[Dunluce Castle]

A review of the engine will appear in next months model rail, it will be interesting to see how theirs run.