Class 121

[DiveController]

On 12/12/2020 at 4:36 AM, iarnrod said:

126 was the only loco that I have so far found photographic evidence of with the four marker lights on each end. Any link to a photo of 130 in this configuration?

130 in CIE livery at Heuston with 4 ROUND markers at that point (1983)

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by DiveController
correct details from my late night post

[mmie353]

I have gotten 3 of my order for 121's a couple of days ago and one of them MM0121 has no sound coming from it, swapped decoders and still nothing from it. Also a strange color on one of the LEDs from MM0125, the LED on the pic for the right hand side. I just emailed my vendor so see what I can do being in the US on this one. I just hope that the rest of them from what I have ordered are ok. 

[DiveController]

Looks like it has the wrong LED (or LEDS!). I think that B125 should has the 2700K type bulb with the 'warm white' color of an incandescent bulb. I believe that only the 121s with newer LEDs on the prototype should have the 'cool white' color, open to correction on this. What color is on the other end?

 iirc someone had an issue with a speaker already. I guess this means I need to test run all of mine when I get a sound decoder, irritating if you have more than a couple of loco (although the decoder is easy to get in and out tbh)

Edited December 13, 2020 by DiveController

[mmie353]

This is the other end dude and I did get it wrong, it is the left one that has the issue from the other end. I am willing to fix the stuff myself if I am allowed to, it would be easier than sending it back to Ireland. Not doing nothing until advised further

Edited December 13, 2020 by mmie353

[Noel]

3 hours ago, DiveController said:

Buy 1983 IR livery at Heuston 4 ROUND markers at that point

 

Good shot. So some of them still had tablet catchers at that late stage even in CIE ST livery.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Noel

[Noel]

On 11/12/2020 at 3:36 PM, Thameslink said:

Really delighted with my Supertrain era 126 - only quibble I have is the guard rails have come away from the body in places. Does anyone have some advice on how to pop them back into place? 
 

They should go back on fairly easily using a tweezers without the need for glue, and the base of the stanchions nicely friction fit into holes on the side of the walkway. My eyesight is not great so I wear an optivisor to see what goes where. I had to remove the grab rails from my 121s to weather them including the cab door rails, but they went back on again ok.

just be gentle. On one of mine the cab door grab rail fell off in transit inside the box, I had to use a micro drill to marginally enlarge the hole above the doors and used the tiniest smear of PVA to secure once pushed back into place. I’ve used a new technique if I ever have to revert to glue when fitting wire parts to models. I put the glue on a piece of plastic bag, hold the part with a tweezers and dip it in the glue to just get the tiniest amount of glue on the end of the wire so when pushed into a body side hole there is no unsightly or messy blob of glue visible. Not neccessary for friction fit parts like walkway rails. I never apply glue using its nozzle directly to a model, a recipient for a mess, instead always indirect transfer using a piece of plastic bag to dip in, or transfer using a cocktail stick.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Noel

[Noel]

3 hours ago, mmie353 said:

This is the other end dude and I did get it wrong, it is the left one that has the issue from the other end. I am willing to fix the stuff myself if I am allowed to, it would be easier than sending it back to Ireland. Not doing nothing until advised further

MM have excellent warranty support. They quickly replaced one of my 121s (faulty speaker) a few weeks ago.  Obviously I had to pack it up and post it back to them, but being in Ireland I got the replacement back within 3 days.

Suggest emailing MM direct for advise.

5 hours ago, K801 said:

Thanks Noel. Also, do the 121s have a cab light?

No

Edited December 13, 2020 by Noel

[murphaph]

So I took the other IR 121s out of their boxes and I also have damage. need 2 vac bags and a cab end facing horn and on 133 the packer even managed to break the NEM pocket so the TLC droops and is about to fall off. The handrails are also snapped off (I really think this handrails should have been included separately or at least there should have been foam between handrail and body like on all previous handrailed models. I wonder why this was omitted here.

What's the consensus on where to request spare parts? I don't want to ship the locos back as there's every possibility they will sustain more damage in transit and I feel perfectly comfortable replacing these things myself (and that's surely much cheaper for MM of course).

Contact the retailer directly or is it cheaper for MM to post these bits out to me?

 

Edit: I have no LED or sound issues to report which is good. The external cosmetic stuff is easier to set right.

Edited December 13, 2020 by murphaph

[Noel]

17 minutes ago, murphaph said:

So I took the other IR 121s out of their boxes and I also have damage. need 2 vac bags and a cab end facing horn and on 133 the packer even managed to break the NEM pocket so the TLC droops and is about to fall off. The handrails are also snapped off (I really think this handrails should have been included separately or at least there should have been foam between handrail and body like on all previous handrailed models. I wonder why this was omitted here.

What's the consensus on where to request spare parts? I don't want to ship the locos back as there's every possibility they will sustain more damage in transit and I feel perfectly comfortable replacing these things myself (and that's surely much cheaper for MM of course).

Contact the retailer directly or is it cheaper for MM to post these bits out to me?

Suggest contact MM by email and arrange to post loco back to them. They will just send you a replacement by post under warranty. Excellent service.

[murphaph]

Hmm, I'm in Germany and the issues are really just these very minor cosmetic things (little plastic bits) that I can stick back on myself if I had them. No speaker or LED problems that need major surgery or anything like that. I'm kind of happy they didn't sustain even more damage on the way here now that I see just how fragile they are to be honest so I don't want to post stuff back to Dublin or Hattons. It can't really be cheaper for MM to do it this way than to just post me a few bits of plastic I'm sure, even if he just sends them straight back to China for rework (which I assume sure his contract with the manufacturer allows). I can even provide a Dublin postal address so we'd be talking about the price of an envelope and a stamp to sort me out.

[NIRCLASS80]

I received 2 so far and both had damage. Can’t seem to get any support other than if it’s damaged return to retailer for refund as this item/items are now discontinued from the Murphy range. 
I don’t usually moan publicly but this was a tad disappointing. 

[murphaph]

9 minutes ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

I received 2 so far and both had damage. Can’t seem to get any support other than if it’s damaged return to retailer for refund as this item/items are now discontinued from the Murphy range. 
I don’t usually moan publicly but this was a tad disappointing. 

Oh that's a shame. Who gave you that information? I certainly won't be returning for refund as these things are all sold out now. 

[DJ Dangerous]

I guess that we will all have to be slightly patient with these models.

It will take a few weeks, until Christmas, New Year and Reyes are out of the way, before retailers have received solid enough data from their customers on what percentage of each loco suffers from what defects.

More reliable from PM's point of view to deal directly with retailers and use the data that they have gathered from their customers after the Christmas presents have been opened and run, rather than deal with some retailers and some of the retailers customers.

Frustrating from our end, I understand.

For example, it sounds like half of them have damaged vacuum hoses, so of the 6348 odd that were produced, PM probably needs to order 3500 spare vacuum hoses from the factory. There's no way that he could have foreseen that, so won't have that many spares in stock straight away.

Likewise with the faulty speakers that some members have reported.

But, it may then take a few months for PM to actually receive what he orders from China, and hopefully, the spares arrive undamaged and free from defects.

IE, that the replacement vacuum hoses actually fit the hole in the buffer beam where the broken ones have been removed.

Regarding the cool LEDs where there should be warm, would a possible fix be PM sending out sticky lenses that customers stick over the cool light to change it to warm?

If so, he could send a bag of say twenty lenses for each loco, and people can have several attempts at fitting them.

A small recess in the centre of the lens would allow it sit correctly, or the sticky lens being the size and shape of the entire light housing, so alignment shouldn't be an issue. I'm just not sure if it is actually possible to change the shade with a coloured lens, to match the other warm LED.

129 has to be a general product recall, a la the ST Mk2D's. There's no way to rectify the two red lights without offering to do it for people.

More efficient to recall them all, and have somebody in Dublin re-wire white LED's in place of the second reds. I imagine that the majority were sold in Ireland and Britain, so returning them shouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

The crazies with big balls like @murphaph would probably love the chance to rip one open and re-wire it, but there's no way I'd be attempting that, and I imagne that many folk would feel the same.

At first, I thought that the new packaging looked much better, much safer, but the two IR's that I opened were both sitting back at around 30º, and shoved to one side. The coupling had been torn off one and was rattling around in the box. Easy to plug it back into the NEM socket, but it just shows that the new packaging didn't work.

Bad form from the factory overall, and I really don't understand why they didn't do as somebody suggested to me, and put foam between the hand-rails and the body like the 141's and 071's.

I imagine that PM is ripping out whatever hair he has left, but there won't be any quick fix. Look at how long it took for the locos to become available, and imagine how much stress PM was under while working his ass of at the project.

I'll be test-running mine at Christmas, but not before, and I'll get back to my retailers with lists of any defects, if there are any.

I'm sorry for anybody who has problems with theirs so far, but the solutions will be found through communication, perseverance and patience.

 

[PJR]

12 hours ago, Noel said:

You can adjust brightness using CVs. MM should have an ESU tech sheet on this like they did for the 071 and 201 decoder projects

Any idea what cv to change (on both ends) and what number setting it should be for brighter light

[murphaph]

Yeah I reckon patience is key here. Over xmas not much will happen anyway.

[DiveController]

5 hours ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

I received 2 so far and both had damage. Can’t seem to get any support other than if it’s damaged return to retailer for refund as this item/items are now discontinued from the Murphy range. 
I don’t usually moan publicly but this was a tad disappointing. 

You purchased this from a retailer and that's who'll you need to deal with. No point in going to the manufacturer as you have no contract with them per se. They're not sold out and the smaller model shops have some stock depending which one you need. I can't imagine @WRENNEIRE will be keeping all those boxes of 121s for personal use either

 

ON the topic of decoders, I presume if running this in consist (where the consist will rarely be split up), is anybody planning to put a sound decoder in BOTH locos of just one with a Lokpilot in the other?

Edited December 13, 2020 by DiveController

[Noel]

2 hours ago, DiveController said:

ON the topic of decoders, I presume if running this in consist (where the consist will rarely be split up), is anybody planning to put a sound decoder in BOTH locos of just one with a Lokpilot in the other?

Have one consist with sound in both locos because I regularly split them while running (ie interesting shunt options), another with sound only in the lead loco and a speed matched LokPilot in the following loco. WheelTappers sell them as matched pairs.

2 hours ago, DiveController said:

You purchased this from a retailer and that's who'll you need to deal with. No point in going to the manufacturer as you have no contract with them per se. They're not sold out and the smaller model shops have some stock depending which one you need. I can't imagine @WRENNEIRE will be keeping all those boxes of 121s for personal use either

Kevin, FYI, I contacted MM directly and was advised by them to send the loco back to them for warranty repair or replacement. Excellent service and only took a few days to get a replacement loco sent back to me. I even got a note to say it had been test run and the sound checked. If you send the loco back to the middle man retailer you may have to wait while they send the model back to MM, from MM back to retailer, retailer back to you. Unless you can get the retailer to just send you a replacement immediately and they can deal with MM retrospectively saving customer a lot of time. Under consumer law your contract is with the retailer, but this manufacturer seems very good at honouring warranty issues directly. Just my tuppence. Most of the issues with disconnected or loose grab rails and hand rails are easily fixed by the user without need to use glue. They are friction fitted. Easy to remove for weathering and then put back. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Noel
lexdysia

[mmie353]

I did read the MM website and it does state that you should go to the dealer where you got the locos from and I did that, he got back to me very quickly and is working with me on this. I so appreciate that he got back to me so fast so hopefully I shall know more in the next couple of days

Edited December 13, 2020 by mmie353

[irishthump]

1 hour ago, DiveController said:

 

 

ON the topic of decoders, I presume if running this in consist (where the consist will rarely be split up), is anybody planning to put a sound decoder in BOTH locos of just one with a Lokpilot in the other?

Yeah I have sound in both my 121's. Mine needed to be speed matched but it did'nt take a lot of work. I also fitted a third decoder into one of my 141's and speed matched it witht the 121's so that I can mix and match consists.

 

Locos 126 and 132 sit in the (unfinished!) freight yard on my layout...

[DiveController]

Thanks @Noel and @irishthump

I noticed that there ws a speed difference between 'identical ' new 121s as there was with the 141s previously. I don't know how to speed match the locos but maybe someone will do that on the DCC section as that would be very useful.

I know I have previously asked about the marker light arrangements on the 121s as delivered. I don't recall if I received a definitive answer so apologies if it s somewhere in the last 30 pages of this thread. 

They seem to have come with twin lenses on both sides (as opposed to the 141s and 071s which came with twin lenses on one side (red & whiter) and a single white lens on the other).

My question is how many WHITE markers were visible when in motion TWO of THREE ( a single red to the rear) ?

If 2 what was the function of the 4th lighting space/lens?

[NIRCLASS80]

2 hours ago, DiveController said:

You purchased this from a retailer and that's who'll you need to deal with. No point in going to the manufacturer as you have no contract with them per se. They're not sold out and the smaller model shops have some stock depending which one you need. I can't imagine @WRENNEIRE will be keeping all those boxes of 121s for personal use either

 

ON the topic of decoders, I presume if running this in consist (where the consist will rarely be split up), is anybody planning to put a sound decoder in BOTH locos of just one with a Lokpilot in the other?

Here’s the exact quote from the reputable retailer 

“

Sorry to see this

We have sold out of this model, Murphy Models has discontinued the item as no more is available so we're unable to get this replaced for you

 

They do not do repairs, I would advise we get this back and get it fixed for you, however I suspect it may have to be glued.”

 

Can I just add that this is a lovely model of a classic loco. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by NIRCLASS80

[murphaph]

To those consisting these locos:

Are you using the advanced consisting features of the decoders or just flipping the direction of operation of one loco using CV29, bit 5? I watched an American video where the guy suggested that drive hold doesn't work unless you use the advanced consisting? That didn't sound right to me but I'm happy to hear of your experiences.

[mmie353]

Well besides having issues with my sound on my MM0121, these are pics of the lights I have from it, I am not sure if they are correct that is bothering me. Please feel free to advise

[irishthump]

28 minutes ago, murphaph said:

To those consisting these locos:

Are you using the advanced consisting features of the decoders or just flipping the direction of operation of one loco using CV29, bit 5? I watched an American video where the guy suggested that drive hold doesn't work unless you use the advanced consisting? That didn't sound right to me but I'm happy to hear of your experiences.

I used Advanced Consisting. That video was right in the sense that functions won't work unless they are set up on the decoder to work while in consist. Many functions on the MM decoders for the 121's are already programmed to function while in consist. Having said that Drive Hold is not set up on the Murphy decoders.

If I was plainning to ALWAYS run my 121's together and not split them up then I would programme them both with the same address and disable certain functions such as the horn.

 

[DiveController]

I not sure I'd notice the loss of the second sound decoder in a consist not to be split and probably use a LokPilot as Noel has done just on the grounds of economy but I do see the utility of how you've setup your 121s and a 141 to consist together. So the 567 decoder is also in the 141, same engine I guess

[irishthump]

8 minutes ago, DiveController said:

I not sure I'd notice the loss of the second sound decoder in a consist not to be split and probably use a LokPilot as Noel has done just on the grounds of economy but I do see the utility of how you've setup your 121s and a 141 to consist together. So the 567 decoder is also in the 141, same engine I guess

Truth be known you would'nt notice the loss of sound in one loco. I'm just a little obsessed with installing sound in everything! It's a big part of the hobby for me.

However I've set up an F7 A and B consist with sound and placed an extra speaker into the unpowered B unit. If I was to permanenlty consist a 141 and 121 I'd consider turning the 141 into a dummy by removing the motor and drive and link the speaker to the one in the 121. But I digress!

I just really wanted to replicate the oddball pairing of a 121 and 141 consist! I ended up matching only one of my 141's with the 121's as they all have the newer Loksound V5 while my locos all carry the V4. There's a slight difference in the way momentum and the load settings are set up in the newer decoders.

 

[DiveController]

Nothing wrong with that at all. And I also like the oddball 121/141 pairing with the difference in heights of the 2 cabs. Sounds like its easier to pair decoders of the same vintage both V5s.

[irishthump]

2 minutes ago, DiveController said:

Nothing wrong with that at all. And I also like the oddball 121/141 pairing with the difference in heights of the 2 cabs. Sounds like its easier to pair decoders of the same vintage both V5s.

Once you know what to look for it's easy to pair V4's and V5's. The problem lies in that prgeammed acceleration and decelleration values in the V5 are roughly 3.6 times that of the V4.

In other words a value of 25 in a V5 is equivalent to roughly 90 in a V4. 

[murphaph]

55 minutes ago, irishthump said:

I used Advanced Consisting. That video was right in the sense that functions won't work unless they are set up on the decoder to work while in consist. Many functions on the MM decoders for the 121's are already programmed to function while in consist. Having said that Drive Hold is not set up on the Murphy decoders.

If I was plainning to ALWAYS run my 121's together and not split them up then I would programme them both with the same address and disable certain functions such as the horn.

 

Yeah I'm using blank Loksounds with the ESU 8-567CR file modified to use Irish horns so drive hold is all set up.

The downside the advanced consisting seems to be that the locos only respond to the consist address (which annoyingly is limited to the simple address space) so you can't shunt locos together and build a consist on the layout without using POM to program the shunted loco with a consist address after it's been coupled up to the other one.

[irishthump]

9 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Yeah I'm using blank Loksounds with the ESU 8-567CR file modified to use Irish horns so drive hold is all set up.

The downside the advanced consisting seems to be that the locos only respond to the consist address (which annoyingly is limited to the simple address space) so you can't shunt locos together and build a consist on the layout without using POM to program the shunted loco with a consist address after it's been coupled up to the other one.

Yeah you can bring the locos together, set up the consist, then simply cancel the consist again to use the locos individually.  Depending on what controller you're using this is a quick process. Or are you simply programming CV19 with POM to set up the consist?

[murphaph]

It'll all be running under Rocrail. No stand alone controller per se. 

I'm guessing any controller has to use POM (possibly in the background) to achieve this because the decoders with an advanced consist address don't respond to throttle or direction commands on their native addresses and to individually shunt them together for coupling you'd certainly need to address them individually before giving them both the same advanced consist address.

[Noel]

27 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Yeah I'm using blank Loksounds with the ESU 8-567CR file modified to use Irish horns so drive hold is all set up.

The downside the advanced consisting seems to be that the locos only respond to the consist address (which annoyingly is limited to the simple address space) so you can't shunt locos together and build a consist on the layout without using POM to program the shunted loco with a consist address after it's been coupled up to the other one.

Yes advanced consist on some DCC systems is very easy to setup without needing to know anything about consisting CVs. I use NCE system which it has a user friendly consist menu that takes care off all the necessary CVs and buries the complexities when using 'advanced consists'. It is fun driving a loco up to another coupling up forming a consist with the pair, driving a train, then deleting the consist and driving one of the locos away independently again without having to programme any CVs or without having to move the locos to the test track. The 1st 2mins of this clip illustrate this. Both MM locos have LokSound V5 projects (by WheelTappers), and also match the 121 WheelTappers project so MM121 + MM141 consist really well together and are speed matched pretty much out of the box.

 

[Noel]

In this example two locos with their own addresses become a consist with a consist address of 127 no longer responding to their own individual addresses until the consist is deleted. This takes care of CV19 automatically in each decoder within the consist.

 

[DiveController]

2 hours ago, mmie353 said:

Well besides having issues with my sound on my MM0121, these are pics of the lights I have from it, I am not sure if they are correct that is bothering me. Please feel free to advise

 

 

That's also how mine is running. So does anyone know for certain if the 121 prototype had 2 or 3 FUNCTIONAL front white marker lights when delivered please?

[ttc0169]

Unfortunately I have had two locomotives with broken vacuum brake pipes-129 and B132 both on the cab end,however I swapped around the brake pipe on B132 from the nose end to the cab end and replaced the nose end with a spare vacuum pipe from the IRM 42’ bogie wagons,

On 129 I decided to replace the vacuum pipe on the cab end with the IRM brake pipe-which is stronger than the MM one. 
 

See before and after photos below...

The hole needed opening out a little more to accommodate the IRM brake pipe.