Class 121

[gm171 kk]

9 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Can you send it back for replacement? Stuff like that shouldn't happen.

I've bought two 121s and this will be the second to be sent back. 

[murphaph]

Yeah that's poor QC at the factory. I assume the red LEDs are driven by the same decoder output so the fault must lie in the wiring from PCB to led or in the led itself or the common positive to that led but a RTR model shouldn't have such a defect. I'm sure MM will be equally annoyed with such things.

[gm171 kk]

3 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Yeah that's poor QC at the factory. I assume the red LEDs are driven by the same decoder output so the fault must lie in the wiring from PCB to led or in the led itself or the common positive to that led but a RTR model shouldn't have such a defect. I'm sure MM will be equally annoyed with such things.

Yeah but my worry is that they're all the same. Someone else has the same issue on 129.

[murphaph]

The same flickering?

[DJ Dangerous]

4 minutes ago, gm171 kk said:

Yeah but my worry is that they're all the same. Someone else has the same issue on 129.

The same flickering or the same incorrect red and white lights?

[gm171 kk]

9 minutes ago, murphaph said:

The same flickering?

Apparently so. 

The 121s look amazing and they're incredibly good runners so far but I have several issues with them personally. 

Firstly, there are no models released that ran between 1993 and 1998 which leaves me having to buy models to renumber and partially repaint to make them fit. But sure that's the way it goes. 

Secondly, 129, the closest match as it got the IÉ livery in 98, so it wouldn't require any work, has the wrong lighting configuration. To my knowledge anyway. 

Thirdly, the IR livery locos released never had the marker lights that the models have. 

But this is nit picking really and I'm probably too hung up on what ran in what period but that's my thing as a rail enthusiast and modeller. 

The quality issues are a major pain. I've bought two models and both models needed to be sent back. So to me it feels like a lottery of whether I get a fully functioning non damaged loco. Maybe I was just unlucky. I've never had this issue before with MM stuff. 

4 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

The same flickering or the same incorrect red and white lights?

Both. All of the models have the wrong lights I'm told. Hopefully the flickering is just a one off quality issue. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by gm171 kk

[DJ Dangerous]

Anybody else on the forum have a 129 with the wrong red / white lights?

I wonder if the flickering is a QC issue from the factory, or results from some of the drop-kicking that DHL have been doing with the deliveries.

Stupid question, sorry, but what are "vacuum bags"? Is that another name for the vacuum pipes? The ones that come in the bag with IRM models and you attach them to the buffer beam?

[Galteemore]

Yes - ‘bags’ is a common term for vacuum hoses. On a 1905 Beyer Peacock drawing I am currently using, the large metal cylinder for working the brake is referred to as a vacuum sack. Possibly technical terms dating back to the earliest form such equipment took.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Galteemore

[murphaph]

Oh that's a shame that all the 129s have two red lights instead of two white lights.

I expect a manufacturer to be forced through economics to sometimes release a livery that doesn't exactly match the hardware in a given time period because the cost of modelling every modification of a loco would be prohibitively high. So I take the "slightly off" hardware to get the livery. But this lighting arrangement never seems to have existed on any 121 from what I understand so appears to be an error either in the spec or on the factory floor.

Are there lenses in front of the LEDs or are they those colours naturally?

I'm wondering can they be fixed using spare parts to get two whites and one red.

[Wexford70]

I also need spare vacuum hoses. 

[gm171 kk]

12 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Oh that's a shame that all the 129s have two red lights instead of two white lights.

I expect a manufacturer to be forced through economics to sometimes release a livery that doesn't exactly match the hardware in a given time period because the cost of modelling every modification of a loco would be prohibitively high. So I take the "slightly off" hardware to get the livery. But this lighting arrangement never seems to have existed on any 121 from what I understand so appears to be an error either in the spec or on the factory floor.

Are there lenses in front of the LEDs or are they those colours naturally?

I'm wondering can they be fixed using spare parts to get two whites and one red.

Yes I'd imagine both the wrong lights on 129 and the lights on the IR locos were to avoid extra costs. 

I can't see away around the lights on 129. Even if I replaced the lenses and swapped the red LED for a white one, the decoder would still switch the white light on with the other red one. Maybe it's possible but I wouldn't dare attempt it myself as I have no experience. 

For the IRs, you could put a square surround on the lights over the round ones and that would sort it. However, 130 was the only one of the three that had the 4 lights on each end 

23 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Anybody else on the forum have a 129 with the wrong red / white lights?

I wonder if the flickering is a QC issue from the factory, or results from some of the drop-kicking that DHL have been doing with the deliveries.

I'd say the flickering is a factory issue. You'd imagine the detail on the loco would be the first to get damaged from poor handling. 

18 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

I also need spare vacuum hoses. 

The first 121 I bought was missing a vacuum pipe on the nose end. But I couldn't see any sign of it broken off nor could I find it in the box. 

[murphaph]

Ah yes of course some rewiring would be required but I had already assumed that, sorry. I realise not everyone is comfortable with a soldering iron.

[gm171 kk]

Just now, murphaph said:

Ah yes of course some rewiring would be required but I had already assumed that, sorry. I realise not everyone is comfortable with a soldering iron.

I can solder alright but removing the body on such detailed locos and knowing what to do with the board is another story. I'd give it to a professional. 

[iarnrod]

2 minutes ago, gm171 kk said:

Yes I'd imagine both the wrong lights on 129 and the lights on the IR locos were to avoid extra costs. 

I can't see away around the lights on 129. Even if I replaced the lenses and swapped the red LED for a white one, the decoder would still switch the white light on with the other red one. Maybe it's possible but I wouldn't dare attempt it myself as I have no experience. 

For the IRs, you could put a square surround on the lights over the round ones and that would sort it. However, 130 was the only one of the three that had the 4 lights on each end 

So did 126. Should add that it's not my photo, but a Flickr link (when you paste the link, it seems to show as a photo on the forum)

The lights on the IR locos is even more strange when you consider that the correct tooling exists, and they all should have the same marker light configuration as 129, but without the incorrect bulb issue obviously.

Also, from speaking to PM at the last Dublin model exhibition,  one of the IR locos was supposed to have dayglo panels too, so somehow that also got lost along the way from plans to production.

They are still cracking models, and likely to be the only 121's in town for a long time to come, so for most and myself included, it will be a case of living with some of the issues.

Paddy also alluded to the amount of work that had gone into these locos at the same exhibition,  and I'm sure that he would be as disappointed as anyone if there are issues with the final product.

I still take my hat off to the guy for releasing these models, which amount to the most highly detailed and high specification Irish loco released so far.

[gm171 kk]

4 minutes ago, iarnrod said:

The lights on the IR locos is even more strange when you consider that the correct tooling exists, and they all should have the same marker light configuration as 129, but without the incorrect bulb issue obviously.

My frustration exactly. 

5 minutes ago, iarnrod said:

Paddy also alluded to the amount of work that had gone into these locos at the same exhibition,  and I'm sure that he would be as disappointed as anyone if there are issues with the final product.

I still take my hat off to the guy for releasing these models, which amount to the most highly detailed and high specification Irish loco released so far.

I will echo that!

[iarnrod]

21 minutes ago, gm171 kk said:

For the IRs, you could put a square surround on the lights over the round ones and that would sort it. However, 130 was the only one of the three that had the 4 lights on each end .

126 was the only loco that I have so far found photographic evidence of with the four marker lights on each end. Any link to a photo of 130 in this configuration?

As for the dayglo, it could in theory be possible to approach Railtec and get them to do a dayglo panel transfer for the 121's.

[gm171 kk]

8 minutes ago, iarnrod said:

126 was the only loco that I have so far found photographic evidence of with the four marker lights on each end. Any link to a photo of 130 in this configuration?

As for the dayglo, it could in theory be possible to approach Railtec and get them to do a dayglo panel transfer for the 121's.

I'd say SSM do them currently. But I'd say it's better to paint them rather than trying to lay transfers around lights. 

I

[iarnrod]

3 minutes ago, gm171 kk said:

I'd say SSM do them currently. But I'd say it's better to paint them rather than trying to lay transfers around lights. 

I

Thanks. I meant transfers for the hi-vis panels on each end.

The lights would be an interesting modification to make. Paddy includes the red lights as a part in the accessories bag, as some locos had these higher up on the body.

Who would have thought a class of 15 locos could have so many differences?

[ganderino]

15 hours ago, LMSNCC said:

Yeah 4 of the 6 I have received so far have broken vacuum hoses. Are these actually available yet as spare parts and if so, has anyone received and fitted any?   

I emailed murphy models but received an email to contact the seller of the locomotive, so i emailed irm and there hopefully receiving spare parts in the near future for these, i have a few more on the way so want to inspect these before i know the quantity i require, hopefully thats the only issue i have!!

[Georgeconna]

On 9/12/2020 at 5:01 PM, RedRich said:

124 and 134 were delivered today. Excellently packaged and the chap that delivered the package knocked and waited until the door was opened. 

They will be wrapped for the 25th. I got them from Mark's and there was a thank you note with a discount code for a purchase in the new year.

I paid for mine in June and didn't mind them being held back until the paint issue was sorted. 

Rich,

That nice a discount, I got Zilch and bought 3 locos!

 

[DJ Dangerous]

24 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

That nice a discount, I got Zilch and bought 3 locos!

 

Marks don't like you.

[Kahier model railway]

These are the only images that I have on 129.

Sorry about the quality of them. These have been lifted from old VHS video footage.

Photo 1 / 2 / 3 were taken in 2000 in Waterford yard and photo 4 was taken in 2002 at Kildare.

But they all show the single marker light on the left-hand side.

Hope this helps.

Kahier Model Railway.

[murphaph]

Does anyone know what the driver was presented with vis a vis the switches for the marker lights? 

Was there one switch to turn on all marker lights and then another to cut out the feed to the rear red ones when running in consist or when hauling a train or were there there two independent switches or were there even 4 switches, one for each end/colour?

I'm setting up a decoder and while I won't be able to replicate things exactly it would be nice to have an approximation.

[RedRich]

3 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

That nice a discount, I got Zilch and bought 3 locos!

 

It was probably the fact that mine were an online purchase. Anyway it was a nice gesture and that's why I believe in supporting our own as it shows how much it means to them also 

Rich,

[flange lubricator]

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

Does anyone know what the driver was presented with vis a vis the switches for the marker lights? 

Was there one switch to turn on all marker lights and then another to cut out the feed to the rear red ones when running in consist or when hauling a train or were there there two independent switches or were there even 4 switches, one for each end/colour?

I'm setting up a decoder and while I won't be able to replicate things exactly it would be nice to have an approximation.

Not too sure about the exact sequence of lights but on the 121 the switches with 'Front' referred to the bonnet end the switches marked 'rear ' referred to the cab end.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by flange lubricator

[murphaph]

43 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

Not too sure about the exact sequence of lights but on the 121 the switches with 'Front' referred to the bonnet end the switches marked 'rear ' referred to the cab end.

 

 

Thx! So there was a simple pair of switches for each colour at each end (4 switches in total) or was it an on switch for all the marker lights and then a colour selector toggle switch for each end?

[flange lubricator]

Just now, murphaph said:

Thx! So there was a simple pair of switches for each colour at each end (4 switches in total) or was it an on switch for all the marker lights and then a colour selector toggle switch for each end?

Paul Bigland Photography | Ireland: The last 121s railtour (zenfolio.com) here is an album if you go to the last page there is some very good cab interior photos 

 

[murphaph]

Thanks a mil. Much appreciated.

[NIR]

I think we must be approaching peak Ready to Run detailing at this point.

Detailed, robust, low cost - pick any two.

[Noel]

44 minutes ago, NIR said:

I think we must be approaching peak Ready to Run detailing at this point.

Detailed, robust, low cost - pick any two.

Yes, it seems so. Totally nit picking, but one minor enhancement would be easy access to add a driver to the inside of the cab, or provide the loco with a driver inside the cab (eg: magnetic or pop off cab roof unless loco comes with a driver inside).

Edited December 12, 2020 by Noel

[declan64]

I'll echo the suggestion for ease of adding a driver. IRM please note for the Class A .... or just put one in from day one!

[K801]

The marker lights on some of my 121s are BRIGHTER than the headlight

[Noel]

1 hour ago, K801 said:

The marker lights on some of my 121s are BRIGHTER than the headlight

You can adjust brightness using CVs. MM should have an ESU tech sheet on this like they did for the 071 and 201 decoder projects

[K801]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

You can adjust brightness using CVs. MM should have an ESU tech sheet on this like they did for the 071 and 201 decoder projects

Thanks Noel. Also, do the 121s have a cab light?

[DiveController]

I agree, That's not acceptable but you should be able to get a replacement/refund from whoever you purchased from. My only issue was 2 broken vacuum hoses out of 8 locos. Might need to check the lights as I haven't test run them all yet. My God, you actually need to take them out of the boxes!

@K801 I don't think they do which is a shame given the fine interior detail 

Edited December 13, 2020 by DiveController