071 class

[kevo]

Hi all . over the last two years now or may be a bit longer ive noticed like others that try ing to get hold of a 141 0r 181 class loco  that dus not cost the price of a trip to the moon and back is dare i say allmost in possible . i should count my self lucky that i have managed to get hold of 3  and that was only due to the kindness of one of the menbers on this forum some time a go . yes they do pop up on E BAY  now and then  but  there going for a fare old wack . i can understand  that demand  will dictate  prices  of course. and  who would not like shed loads of dosh  for a 2nd hand loco  . and i expect the question of will there be any re runs has been asked many times . this has only come to my main question as i started looking for a 071 class  a month or so ago  and sadly  they now seem to have gone the same way . please doint get me wrong lads  its not ment as a good moane  just a observation .

[DJ Dangerous]

I'd give it a couple of years and see if there are more runs of certain locos.

Obviously, some people will say that they'll never be run again, other will ignore the economics and say that there should be X, Y and Z run tomorrow, but striking a balance between those two poles, re-runs are an inevitability.

There are a couple of 141's for sale at €250 each on adverts.ie at the moment, but that's far too much, in my humble opinion. Not saying that they won't sell, they definitely will, but as the 121's and A's show, €190 is what a brand spanking new loco with all of the current features is worth.

I hope you've ordered yourself a few A's???

[Dempsey]

I remember when i got back into the hobby the first model i bought was an 071. Looking back now i wish i had bought more for as they are rare to come by.

I think over time re-runs will become more and more possible regardless of the model. The upcoming mk3 and mk2s for example will see prices reduce from what can be found on ebay

[kevo]

yes may be a re run is all we can hope for . i think irish railways have gained  a huge  following now a days with all the excellent locos that have so far been produced  mind you even the  rolling stock is not far behind  with demand  nearlly evey time i start looking for cement bubbles there all sold out  

[murphaph]

Keep the faith kevo. If people keep returning to the hobby or moving over to Irish prototype, even those bubbles will see another run some day I'm sure. 

[connollystn]

I don't think that there'll be re-runs of the 141, 181 or 071 locomotives as technology has moved on and it would be pointless re-releasing out of date products. With the release of the 121 and As the bar has been raised to new heights and there would be an expectation by modelers getting into the game that versions of newer locomotives will be, at least, as good if not better than those aforementioned prototypes. Patience is the name of the game.

[murphaph]

But MM is re-running the 201 this year. The 071s are a newer design than the 201s and the tooling and everything exists for them. If a rerun of 201s is viable then surely a rerun of the 071s will be too at some stage.

I can't really see what major upgrades the 071s could get with new tooling. They are still of a recent design.

The babies are a bit different but everyone just loves them. They wouldn't be left on the shelves if rerun.

 

[DJ Dangerous]

LOL, of course there'll be re-runs at some stage. You think that manufacturers will sit back if there's a gap in the market and say "Nah, let's not bother selling what we can sell, let them paint Hornby Class 25's orange from now on" ?

[connollystn]

In ten years time they'll all be very old locomotives, can't say that issuing re-runs of models using aging processes and technology as being a positive move. We have to remember that in order to promote the hobby we have to move with the times. I expect (and hope) that over the coming years that new hobbyists will enter the fray and there's a need to keep the offerings as new and as fresh as possible.

[Noel]

We are already blessed with a bountiful supply of top class Irish model locos. I do agree the BachmannMM 141/181s would probably fly off the shelves faster than Fr Jack chasing a bottle of brandy in his turbo charged wheelchair including double flywheel, all wheel drive, keepalive and ANDAS (automatic nun detection and avoidance system). The imminent arrival of A class should put enough Irish model mojo in the market for decades to come. If I was a betting man I’d put a tote bet each way on future 141/181s, 071s and even C classes eventually coming to market from some manufacturers. The well is only so deep. Patience will yield reward.

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, connollystn said:

In ten years time they'll all be very old locomotives, can't say that issuing re-runs of models using aging processes and technology as being a positive move. We have to remember that in order to promote the hobby we have to move with the times. I expect (and hope) that over the coming years that new hobbyists will enter the fray and there's a need to keep the offerings as new and as fresh as possible.

Sorry, but I haven't a clue what you're trying to say. In one breath it looks like you're saying that nobody will release 141's etc in the future, and in another it looks like you're saying that somebody will have to release them.

[connollystn]

DJ Dangerous - they will have to be a completely new locomotives so it will be up to somebody to release them.

[Westcorkrailway]

6 minutes ago, connollystn said:

In ten years time they'll all be very old locomotives, can't say that issuing re-runs of models using aging processes and technology as being a positive move. We have to remember that in order to promote the hobby we have to move with the times. I expect (and hope) that over the coming years that new hobbyists will enter the fray and there's a need to keep the offerings as new and as fresh as possible.

While that be true, old technology becomes cheaper overtime. Making entering said hobby much easier to enter. 

[Noel]

25 minutes ago, connollystn said:

DJ Dangerous - they will have to be a completely new locomotives so it will be up to somebody to release them.

It seems a bit like one of those hollywood Frankenstein horror movies of the 1940s, when a crowd of village people are outside the gates of the castle speculating what the flashing lights up in the castle mean. We can enjoy pondering the future but bare in mind the 141/181s were actually a bachmann product produced for MM, so no idea where the IP or tooling ownership resides which could be a complicating factor in deciding the viability of re-runs or refreshes. The 141/181s were and still are truly superb locos not least because they are still to this day probably the best and smoothest running model locos. The only improvements needed are perhaps an easy access hatch to fit a decoder, supplied with a decent built in speaker (ie not the tiny sugar cube in the 121), and with independent control of the head lamps (ie decoupled from the running lights). The staff collectors on the 141/181s were actually more scale like in detail than the 121. Only one of these changes would require a partial retooling (ie centre body section), but not an iota what such might cost. I still think if they were rereleased exactly as they were in 2008 they'd still sell out faster than a torch for a party of priests lost in the caves of Clonrickert. Now back to the castle gates, what's going on up there?  

Edited April 21, 2021 by Noel
lexdysia

[murphaph]

16 minutes ago, connollystn said:

DJ Dangerous - they will have to be a completely new locomotives so it will be up to somebody to release them.

Would you not buy half a dozen rerun MM babies though? I know I'd buy any rerun IR/IE ones. I'm still missing two tippex babies but I've given up on getting them cos I'm not prepared to pay 250 for one. 

To my eye they still look the part next to a 121. They aren't some Lima pancake motor job in fairness. Mechanically as good as the 121s IMO too.

If the babies were rerun they could even fix the lighting easily (soft white LEDs for the lights where required and independent control of the headlights, no tooling upgrades are required for those modifications but they would add a lot of value). 

[NIRCLASS80]

It’s hard to see a new 141/181 model appearing any time soon. 
Even the much larger British market upgraded models usually appear at least 20 years later.  The danger is if the vast majority of end users don’t see the improvements as significant then the “new modellers” just don’t make enough sales to make it viable. 
Risky

Where as a model of a C Class is attractive to many modellers and the A class sales must help in gathering the appropriate data to help IRM make decisions on future releases. 

[DJ Dangerous]

23 minutes ago, connollystn said:

DJ Dangerous - they will have to be a completely new locomotives so it will be up to somebody to release them.

I understand you now.

Yeah, that goes without saying. The A's and 121's have raised the bar on the technical side of things, lessons have been learned with the 121 hand-rails, vacuum hoses and packaging, but the technical side of things is now 15 odd years on from when the 141's were first released.

But we will see more of them at some stage, from one manufacturer or another, of that I am confident.

[BosKonay]

Perhaps the key is 'at some stage' tho it's likely to be a brand new model, and therefore maybe a decade away.

[Broithe]

An Accurascale Facebook post yesterday said "Don't miss out, bolster your wagon fleet here: "

I considered starting a rumour that the accidental use of the word 'bolster' was a Freudian slip indicating a potential release in the immediate future.

But then I thought it might just dilute all the other rumours already circulating...

[connollystn]

@BosKonay, I have to agree - the likelihood of a brand new 141/181 could be a bit away but worth it. The downside to that is the current versions will be on eBay are rediculously high prices because the demand is growing but not in the numbers to justify a manufacturer producing a brand new line of those locomotives. At the moment there is demand for wagons to run with the early liveried 121s and As and there will be people looking for models of the B101 and C class also. It's hard to believe we're having this conversation because it's not to long ago the top of the range model of an Irish locomotive was the Lima BR Class 33 in the supertrain livery.

[DJ Dangerous]

59 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Perhaps the key is 'at some stage' tho it's likely to be a brand new model, and therefore maybe a decade away.

 

24 minutes ago, connollystn said:

The downside to that is the current versions will be on eBay are rediculously high prices because the demand is growing but not in the numbers to justify a manufacturer producing a brand new line of those locomotives.

 

That's the crux of it right there for a manufacturer. Finding the right point in the supply/demand curve to start on a project that might take them a few years to deliver.

[murphaph]

BosKonay's mere mention of "decade" just sent the price of used baby GMs on eBay through the €300 mark lol.

 

[Barl]

In terms of a brand new 141/181, I think the existing model more than holds it's own when put beside the new 121. It just shows what a great model they were - and still are - when released.

In my opinion, the only thing that really stands out in terms of aesthetic detail would be the windscreen wipers being a little more clunky than the 121 but that's something that's easily fixed.

It may not have a speaker fitted but, as brilliant as it is, not everyone wants DCC sound fitted to their models. 

As said above, a rerun of the Bachmann/MM model would be very welcome, however unlikely in the short term! 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Barl

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

BosKonay's mere mention of "decade" just sent the price of used baby GMs on eBay through the €300 mark lol.

 

He obviously has a load of them stashed for gouging!

[WRENNEIRE]

As already stated Murphy Models will not be doing a re release of either the 141/181's or 071's
There are a few projects that he wishes to complete and then will probably wash the shovel
What happens further down the line is anyone's guess but as he owns all the tooling for these models it is possible that IRM someone may
pick up the mantle and reissue them
Just sayin...

[DJ Dangerous]

I'm getting this wierd deja-vu feeling. Isn't there a thread about what determines a re-run, covering the same topic, more or less?

Maybe a mod could merge the two?

[K801]

7 hours ago, connollystn said:

I don't think that there'll be re-runs of the 141, 181 or 071 locomotives as technology has moved on and it would be pointless re-releasing out of date products. With the release of the 121 and As the bar has been raised to new heights and there would be an expectation by modelers getting into the game that versions of newer locomotives will be, at least, as good if not better than those aforementioned prototypes. Patience is the name of the game.

What improvements in technology would you expect to see if a new 071 was re-released over the old MM one? 

[Westcorkrailway]

After the IRM "A" class comes out. There is no doubt in my mind that the "C" class which could be 2-3 years away makes the most sense to do a run of. MM has already elaborated on what he is planning on doing in the next 2-3 years in the realease of those anticipated re-runs like 201s with new liveries ect. So really by the time all that has realsid, I reckon enough time will have passed to look at GM 141/181s again. However there are still designs like the Sulzer diesal, steam loco, G class.....or even a turfburner! That could be looked at before such a re-releasing models that have a decent model with somewhat adequate numbers already circling about. I would love a 141 and too strugle to find one decently priced and the right livery when funds allow.....but when C class and sulzers are yet to be modeled.....I don't think anyone will be in a rush to release them

[BosKonay]

Not to mention a raft of stock, coaches, multiple units and more

[Westcorkrailway]

2 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Not to mention a raft of stock, coaches, multiple units and more

Exactly....everyone say it with me

 

What do we want....

 

Green coaches and tin vans!

 

When do we want them....

 

In the short to medium term!

[DJ Dangerous]

20 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Exactly....everyone say it with me

 

What do we want....

 

Green coaches and tin vans!

 

When do we want them....

 

In the short to medium term!

Pfft.

He meant CAF Mk4's and 29000 DMU's, duh.

[DiveController]

 

9 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Pfft.

He meant CAF Mk4's and 29000 DMU's, duh.

Dave, you've been in the sun too long 

[murphaph]

I'd take a new release of (modern era) 2600s over a rerun of babies any day I have to say, seeing as the multiple units came up 

Still in service today and been around since 1994 is it? Getting on for 30 years and what, 3 or 4 liveries? Nice overlap with the end of the A's.

[jhb171achill]

Mid 90s and four liveries, yes. While not my era, would be ideal for a “micro-layout” for those with limited space. A thirty year period also helps. They have been used on branch, commuter and even in main line settings (Cork-Mallow currently).