British locos and stock that can be disguised as Irish

[Horsetan]

56 minutes ago, gibbo675 said:

.As for cutting and shutting locomotive bodies I've never had a problem with the grade of plastic that Hornby use as it generally takes solvents really well. I usually fit a backing strip made form either .030" or .040" plasticard as well.

Unfortunately I found that Plastic Weld didn't sufficiently fuse the Class 40 sections together well enough, despite also using styrene strip to overlap the joins inside, resulting in a split. The only way I could get them to co-operate was to - very delicately - drill for locator pins to keep it all aligned.

The Hornby Hymek bogie is a little too short in the wheelbase to match the B101. Only the Heljan Hymek is dead-on.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, gibbo675 said:

Hi there Galteemore,

Here are some of mine to be going on with, all built from Hornby Stanier coaches. They are all featured on my ongoing thread along with all sorts of other projects.

GNRI L14 open third brake.

GNRI K15 open third.

GSR Bredin corridor third.

GNRI F16 corridor composite.

Brilliant stuff, Gibbo!

16 hours ago, Mayner said:

The Midland Great Western had a two rectaangular tank wagons 1108 & 1967 used for cresote traffic between the North Wall and Liffey Junctionsleeper depot and cresoting plant. The Midland bought a pair of RCH pattern tanks (5'8" diameter) for cresote traffic from Charles Roberts in 1915. Its possible both types may have lingered on in service into CIE days. (Notes MGWR Wagon Stock P O'Cuimin  IRRS Journal 1969?)  

Haven't seen a photo of either type of wagon, its possible that the other large companies may have used similar wagons to transport cresote from the ports to their cresote plants.

Yes, they were. There were two used on the Loughrea branch, though I don't know their history, I believe they were used to bring fuel in for the resident G class locos. One was believed to have a tank which originated on the West Clare, probably to bring diesel toi Kilkee to fuel the railcar which did the Kilrush branch shuttle. However, such vehicles were as far as I know, always "departmental" wagons, rather than used for commercial traffic.

As an aside, for the general readership, with no petrol industry or milk tank traffic here, tank wagons were extremely rare in Ireland, and almost all that we ever had ( a few exceptions) used for railway use.

[Mayner]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Brilliant stuff, Gibbo!

Yes, they were. There were two used on the Loughrea branch, though I don't know their history, I believe they were used to bring fuel in for the resident G class locos. One was believed to have a tank which originated on the West Clare, probably to bring diesel toi Kilkee to fuel the railcar which did the Kilrush branch shuttle. However, such vehicles were as far as I know, always "departmental" wagons, rather than used for commercial traffic.

As an aside, for the general readership, with no petrol industry or milk tank traffic here, tank wagons were extremely rare in Ireland, and almost all that we ever had ( a few exceptions) used for railway use.

 

The Loughrea fueling tank appears to have used the tank once used on the West Clare mounted on a 'modified" Ballast Wagon. quite unlike the purpose built rectangular tank wagons used for tar traffic in Great Britain.

There were rumours that the tank may have originally used for oil firing steam locos during the 1947 Fuel Crisis, the conversion does not appear the most professional with planks and timber packers apparrently supporting the tank brackets as opposed to a more engineered approach likely to be adapted by Inchacore or Limerick

 

Not sure if JHB was thinking in terms of tank wagons in general that tank wagons were extremely rare in Ireland and almost all (with few exceptions) used for railway use. 

While generally true of the post 70s Block Train era where ESSO Claremorris, Irish Cement and Burmah were the main revenue commercial oil traffic sources, the Major Oil Companies and their Irish Distributors distributed their product by rail as wagons loads from the Ports in private owner tank cars until replaced with a road tanker fleet duirng the 60s-70s. Much of the traffic would have been single tank cars to oil depots at relatively small country stations in similar RCH pattern tank wagons to those used in the UK. Most companies had rail served terminals on Dublin's Alexandra Rd tramway, Irish Shell & BP its own Planet diesel loco.

Many of the wagons appear to have been a 1927 (UK) RCH design, though Caltex invested in a fleet pf 'modern" anchor mounted but unfitted tank wagons in 1960 and ESSO imported vacuum fitted wagons from the UK in the late 60s for its Sligo, Claremorris and a short lived Oranmore traffic flows.

While the companies invested heavily in new high capacity tank wagons for use in Great Britain during the early 1960s, the old wagons soldiered on in Ireland until late 60s/early 70s. Esso used modern but essentially obsolete wagons from the Britain for its traffic to the West. 

Its possible a re-liveried Oxford tank wagon may pass for a 'typical" Irish company wagon.

Mex (Mc Mullen Bros?) Class A tank (two compartments different grades of petrol or petrol and TVO?)

Another Class A (highly flammable) wagon dumped/stored at East Wall late 1990s

ESSO logo just about visible Class B (Diesel, heavy fuel) Black

 

Makers photo Shell-Mex Northern Ireland

Many of the old private owner wagons in the South ended up stored/dumped near Sheriff St Signal box North Wall and may have been used for departmental use before scrapping.

At one stage the Alexandra Road-Inchacore fuel train was made up of 1960 Clatex-Texaco tank wagons with Caltex 'grinning: through the Texaco marking.

 

 

Edited August 7 by Mayner

[Horsetan]

23 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Would love to see some photos of your work HT - sounds really good stuff.

 

This is the test photo I took. One half of the Heljan Hymek bogie casing is on the sprue, and the standard spur gears are lined up. At the time it wasn't possible to buy the individual gears from Heljan or their service agents, but I worked out that they were 12-tooth, Mod 0.5, plastic spurs which were available on eBay from a stockist in Hong Kong. I bought quite a lot of them, and they are a perfect mesh with the original Heljan gears.

You should be able to see the new middle axle position which I drilled under the 2nd/3rd gear. It lies exactly on the scale 5'3" point between the outer axles.

It's so close to hitting the gear teeth that there's no room to allow the axle to rise. If it were possible to move the gear centres, life might be easier, but these are fixed by the manufacturer.

 

[Mayner]

On 8/8/2024 at 10:13 AM, Mayner said:

 

The Loughrea fueling tank appears to have used the tank once used on the West Clare mounted on a 'modified" Ballast Wagon. quite unlike the purpose built rectangular tank wagons used for tar traffic in Great Britain.

There were rumours that the tank may have originally used for oil firing steam locos during the 1947 Fuel Crisis, the conversion does not appear the most professional with planks and timber packers apparrently supporting the tank brackets as opposed to a more engineered approach likely to be adapted by Inchacore or Limerick

 

Not sure if JHB was thinking in terms of tank wagons in general that tank wagons were extremely rare in Ireland and almost all (with few exceptions) used for railway use. 

While generally true of the post 70s Block Train era where ESSO Claremorris, Irish Cement and Burmah were the main revenue commercial oil traffic sources, the Major Oil Companies and their Irish Distributors distributed their product by rail as wagons loads from the Ports in private owner tank cars until replaced with a road tanker fleet duirng the 60s-70s. Much of the traffic would have been single tank cars to oil depots at relatively small country stations in similar RCH pattern tank wagons to those used in the UK. Most companies had rail served terminals on Dublin's Alexandra Rd tramway, Irish Shell & BP its own Planet diesel loco.

Many of the wagons appear to have been a 1927 (UK) RCH design, though Caltex invested in a fleet pf 'modern" anchor mounted but unfitted tank wagons in 1960 and ESSO imported vacuum fitted wagons from the UK in the late 60s for its Sligo, Claremorris and a short lived Oranmore traffic flows.

While the companies invested heavily in new high capacity tank wagons for use in Great Britain during the early 1960s, the old wagons soldiered on in Ireland until late 60s/early 70s. Esso used modern but essentially obsolete wagons from the Britain for its traffic to the West. 

Its possible a re-liveried Oxford tank wagon may pass for a 'typical" Irish company wagon.

Mex (Mc Mullen Bros?) Class A tank (two compartments different grades of petrol or petrol and TVO?)

Another Class A (highly flammable) wagon dumped/stored at East Wall late 1990s

ESSO logo just about visible Class B (Diesel, heavy fuel) Black

 

Makers photo Shell-Mex Northern Ireland

Many of the old private owner wagons in the South ended up stored/dumped near Sheriff St Signal box North Wall and may have been used for departmental use before scrapping.

At one stage the Alexandra Road-Inchacore fuel train was made up of 1960 Clatex-Texaco tank wagons with Caltex 'grinning: through the Texaco marking.

 

 

 

While Oil Company traffic was light and wagons scarce compared with other types, small depots at branchline terminals and large country times were common enough, the old style tank wagons produced by Bachmann and Oxford rail appear 'close enough" and used in conjunction with a small oil depot make an interesting scene and add to the operational interest of a layout.

Sometimes visible in the background of photos the Oil Company depots at country stations were often small in scale one or two storage tanks inside a fenced compound. 

Oil depots were added at both Loughrea and Ballinrobe during the 1930s "Baronial Lines of the MGWR " P O'Cuimin

The depot at Loughrea was sited near the buffers at the end of the cattle bank siding. Ballinrobe between the Station Building and Goods shed behind the platform. Its possible tank wagons were unloaded on the cattle bank road and piped (underground) to the Oil Depot, difficult to imaginge tank wagons with a highly flammable load being unloaded at the platform.

'A Decade of Steam "RPSI  Excursion train at Bantry 1954 photographer uncredited

Cahirciveen 2002? Irish Shell Depot appears to be on its original rail served site though the tanks may be modern replacements. There is a photo showing a tank wagon on the rail side of the depot in the Cahirciveen-Valencia railway book.

The depot was site at the back of the cattle bank once located on the roadway on the right. The modern building in the background are government offices (Tax?) built in connection with the Governments de-centralisation programme of the eraly 2000s

Another rail related building structure survived into the 21st Century at Cahirciveen, once possibly used as a Guinness store again served by the Cattle Bank siding.

 

 

 

[Westcorkrailway]

Oil is still dispensed from a depot in roughly the same location in Bantry 

[Mike 84C]

But the Bantry oil depot seems to only have rail access, the oil was loaded for customer delivery from standpipes between the station buildings and the goods shed.

 

[leslie10646]

On 1/8/2024 at 4:39 PM, Johnny B. Good said:

I know the answer is probably “no” (because nothing could be that easy) but were rectangular tank wagons ever used in Ireland in the days of steam? 

Seen at Killorglin with the Valentia Line lifting train in June 1961. A David Soggee photo, Copyright IRRS.

 

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, leslie10646 said:

Seen at Killorglin with the Valentia Line lifting train in June 1961. A David Soggee photo, Copyright IRRS.

 

Looks like a tank orignially used with an oil burning steam loco during the  1947 -48 'Fuel Crisis" mounted on a flat wagon. CIE converted approx. 60 steam locos to oil burners so plenty of tanks available,  

[leslie10646]

On 9/8/2024 at 12:40 AM, Mayner said:

 

While Oil Company traffic was light and wagons scarce compared with other types, small depots at branchline terminals and large country times were common enough, the old style tank wagons produced by Bachmann and Oxford rail appear 'close enough" and used in conjunction with a small oil depot make an interesting scene and add to the operational interest of a layout.

Sometimes visible in the background of photos the Oil Company depots at country stations were often small in scale one or two storage tanks inside a fenced compound. 

Oil depots were added at both Loughrea and Ballinrobe during the 1930s "Baronial Lines of the MGWR " P O'Cuimin

The depot at Loughrea was sited near the buffers at the end of the cattle bank siding. Ballinrobe between the Station Building and Goods shed behind the platform. Its possible tank wagons were unloaded on the cattle bank road and piped (underground) to the Oil Depot, difficult to imaginge tank wagons with a highly flammable load being unloaded at the platform.

'A Decade of Steam "RPSI  Excursion train at Bantry 1954 photographer uncredited

Cahirciveen 2002? Irish Shell Depot appears to be on its original rail served site though the tanks may be modern replacements. There is a photo showing a tank wagon on the rail side of the depot in the Cahirciveen-Valencia railway book.

The depot was site at the back of the cattle bank once located on the roadway on the right. The modern building in the background are government offices (Tax?) built in connection with the Governments de-centralisation programme of the eraly 2000s

Another rail related building structure survived into the 21st Century at Cahirciveen, once possibly used as a Guinness store again served by the Cattle Bank siding.

 

 

 

John

The "modern" building in the background is the former RIC Barracks, burnt out by "The Boys" during the original troubles. I'm pleased to see the building restored - it looked like that when I dragged one of my English tour parties to view the bridge over the river - which is also still there - at least what I told them - I wanted to see the station!

[Horsetan]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:09 AM, Galteemore said:

Would love to see some photos of your work HT - sounds really good stuff.

Late news: have finally found my rolling mill, which was hiding in plain sight in the shed. There are some etched boilers that are overdue some rolling....

[Mayner]

10 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

John

The "modern" building in the background is the former RIC Barracks, burnt out by "The Boys" during the original troubles. I'm pleased to see the building restored - it looked like that when I dragged one of my English tour parties to view the bridge over the river - which is also still there - at least what I told them - I wanted to see the station!

Leslie

I was referring to the Revenue Commissioners building(data centre) seen in the background of the photo of the oil depot not the old RIC Barracks.

The building built under a shorth lived Irish Government 'de-centralisation' policy occupied an area once occupied a large part of the station site. I worked for a Government agency at the time (2003) the Head Office function was to be de-centralised at the time, but subsequently cancelled. I worked 'remotely" in Dublin and Leinster but was 'flying' the flag in Kerry when I took the photos, I ended up working for a similar agency when we moved to New Zealand but found they were 10-15 years behind Ireland in the use of IT and remote working.

There were rumours that the Barracks was designed for India's North West Frontier.

 

 

Edited August 12 by Mayner

[minister_for_hardship]

Wonder what that tax office building is doing now? Only asking as I had a hand in the construction of part of that, my then boss was telling me he saw traces of the railway site digging the foundations for it.

[Mayner]

8 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Wonder what that tax office building is doing now? Only asking as I had a hand in the construction of part of that, my then boss was telling me he saw traces of the railway site digging the foundations for it.

Headquartersof the 'Legal Aid Board" https://www.legalaidboard.ie/en/, I was under the impression that it was a Data Centre for the Revenue which is quite de-centralised with different departments dispersed around the country.

I was working for the Health and Safety Authority at the time which was to be 'de-centralised" to Thomastown shortly before the policy was cancelled. The de-centralisation would have probably have affected 15-20 head office staff as the operational staff worked from regional offices or remotely from home, not a great windfall for Thomastown.