The final Warley may have happened...

[Broithe]

[Ironroad]

That speaks volumes

[Georgeconna]

Blimey, Only went once.

 

Wonder if the IPMS Telford will go the same way at some stage. hopefully not, There is not so much an Ageing Demograph in the ol plastic kits side when compared the the Model Railway side plus the kits are still a wee be more affordable!!

 

 

 

[Broithe]

15 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

That speaks volumes

It is hard to do these things, especially on a voluntary basis, and they sometimes just do have a 'life-cycle'.

I used to do fairly large outdoor events at various stately homes - car rallies. The number of people who would actually turn up and do something, both before and during the event would steadily drop over time and it eventually became clear that we (that were left) just couldn't do it all ourselves, even though we got better and more efficient. If you're wise enough, you will stop before it all falls to pieces on the day...

The events get bigger and the active personnel dwindle.

 

After the Covid disruption, Stafford has drifted back into the autumn and may take up some of the slack, but it's generally fairly full anyway. For people arriving by road, it's probably better, and they run a bus from the station, but it's nowhere near as convenient as the NEC for the rail-borne visitor.

Trade vehicle access to the halls may be less convenient than the NEC, but it's not too bad.

 

Edited January 11 by Broithe

[Ironroad]

9 minutes ago, Broithe said:

It is hard to do these things, especially on a voluntary basis, and they sometimes just do have a 'life-cycle'.

I used to do fairly large outdoor events at various stately homes - car rallies. The number of people who would actually turn up and do something, both before and during the event would steadily drop over time and it eventually became clear that we (that were left) just couldn't do it all ourselves, even though we got better and more efficient. If you're wise enough, you will stop before it all falls to pieces on the day...

The events get bigger and the active personnel dwindle.

All very true, but some of the content of the announcement seems ominous, particularly the references to ageing demographic and no new blood.  And they allude to a deterioration in the commercial environment.  This on the heels of the Hattons closure.  Even a giant like Hornby has had financial troubles and their behaviour and that of Bachmann  has not been exemplary and speaks of fear.  Let us just hope these things are no more than  indicators of change and readjustment.

[Broithe]

Things change all the time, especially if you're relying on sponsorship, or just goodwill, from commercial interests, who may well have their own problems on the horizon.

Sometimes, one single issue can make things on the whole just practically impossible - I gave up with one place because His Lordship's new estate manager was just too difficult and unreliable.

They've had a good run and it may be time to 'quit whilst they're ahead'.

The alternative may be to give themselves a harder and harder time, until the inevitable happens..?

Costs have a habit of steadily increasing, without a great willingness from the paying public to fill the gaps. The last ones I did were at an MoD site, where I had a tame 2i/c and few costs...

 

[DJ Dangerous]

More than changing demographics, it's a changing world.

Outside of this forum, I don't know one single enthuiast who enjoys actual models.

Everything is digital / virtual. Games / simulators / YouTube.

Kids today, in most cases that I see, don't want a trainset or a model car. They want a simulator or they want to watch videos online.

Likewise with any enthusiast friends, and DJD Senior included, they just want to look at stuff for free without having to do anything or spend anything.

Pity my nieces and nephews. Despite their parents wishes for money or whatever, they get physical / tangible gifts.

That's the only way to sow hope for the future.

[Westcorkrailway]

19 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

More than changing demographics, it's a changing world.

Outside of this forum, I don't know one single enthuiast who enjoys actual models.

Everything is digital / virtual. Games / simulators / YouTube.

Kids today, in most cases that I see, don't want a trainset or a model car. They want a simulator or they want to watch videos online.

Likewise with any enthusiast friends, and DJD Senior included, they just want to look at stuff for free without having to do anything or spend anything.

Pity my nieces and nephews. Despite their parents wishes for money or whatever, they get physical / tangible gifts.

That's the only way to sow hope for the future.

we love models for the satisfaction of construction, modification, tinkering. But I bet we all wanted to get models in the first place to run our own trains, put Connolly station dublin or Thomas the tank into our living rooms or owning miniature of the real thing. 
 

I grew up in a house falling down. And with far less technology then most of my counterparts my age. It was only when I moved in 2012 that I got access to a computer and other fabulous technologies. 
 

with computers come simulators. Once you have a standerd PC. A train simulator will cost you next to nothing compared to a singular model. On the kids game “Roblox” which I played when I was young and just turned on for the sake of nostalgia. There are some superb train simulators. There was even an unfinished one based on the translink network in Northern Ireland. And where layouts come pre-built, pre decorated run for miles where you can go into the cab itself, or be a bystander. 
 

nothing beats the tagable object. But you can pick up a PlayStation 4, PS+ and a few of these free simulators cheaper then a singular model!!!

 

That being said, I met enough young model enthusiasts on cork to know that there might still be a future 

[Broithe]

For reasons of The Plague and other logistical things, I haven't been to many exhibitions in the last five years - just two Stafford ones, probably - but, it's very clear that model railways is, essentially, a retirement hobby now. You will see families with young kids, but they are largely just there 'to look' at the exhibits. I don't personally know anybody without a pension book who has a layout. There are a good few youngsters on here, though, which is encouraging.

Also, people, in the UK in particular, live in smaller houses filled with loads more 'other stuff' these days, and a layout of any size would be difficult.

Evolution happens.

 

[DJ Dangerous]

The kicker is, it doesn't necessarily have to be one or the other, choosing sides, real vs. virtual.

I love cars, end of.

I have a few real cars, and a few models - see the 1:18 Vehicle thread and 1:43 Vehicle thread - but also love Gran Turismo Sport and Gran Turismo 7.

Haven't actually gone to a rally in a few years as changes at work have made it virtually impossible to get there early enough, walk a few km to find a good spot and chill for the day.

Likewise with the trains - obviously can't go trainspotting down here!

But, I wouldn't give up the actual models unless there was some kind of catastrophe.

[Broithe]

2 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Haven't actually gone to a rally in a few years

When I said "car rallies" above, it wasn't really people charging along dirt tracks, it was more old motors parked up in fields and being tutted at by the "better owners"...

[DJ Dangerous]

12 minutes ago, Broithe said:

When I said "car rallies" above, it wasn't really people charging along dirt tracks, it was more old motors parked up in fields and being tutted at by the "better owners"...

 

 

 

Edited January 11 by DJ Dangerous

[Broithe]

 

[Galteemore]

This is all an ongoing debate in 7mm world. Consensus is that big shows may have had their day. Cameo shows like Larkrail seem to thrive, with smaller layouts requiring fewer crew and thus lower expenditure. Mind you, people probably thought collapse of IMREX decades ago was end of the world - and it wasn’t. https://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/15_Exhibition.pdf

Edited January 11 by Galteemore

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

The youngsters won't get into the hobby because it's too expensive, they can buy a secondhand games console for the price some people are asking for a loco, Hattons is going to be a huge loss to the demographic and I think more outlets will close, I hope it doesn't turn into a monopoly for Hornby etc., we really are lucky to have IRM.

[leslie10646]

9 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

This is all an ongoing debate in 7mm world. Consensus is that big shows may have had their day. Cameo shows like Larkrail seem to thrive, with smaller layouts requiring fewer crew and thus lower expenditure. Mind you, people probably thought collapse of IMREX decades ago was end of the world - and it wasn’t. https://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/15_Exhibition.pdf

I remember The Syndicate going to IMREX - yes, we would just drive up to Central London, unload, park somewhere, sell all day and drive home again. No real hassle! Try THAT today.

I'm saddened to hear about Warley and have written to the Club expressing the thanks of the iRRS for having us for over a quarter century. The Syndicate used to have a trade stand there, sometimes as well. It was hard work, but we raised a lot of money for the RPSI at that time. As luck would have it, the intricacies of the NEC worked well for us this year so that we were looking forward to the Show in November.

It was always a great place to meet like-minded folk and it was the first exhibition where Provincial Wagons went on sale in 2007.

Thanks to the  Warley Club and all their willing helpers (and they DID help) for many happy memories (and a few less happy ones, mainly down to those intricacies of the NEC)  over 25 odd years that we went. Now we'll have to meet people somewhere else!

Leslie (for The Syndicate and the IRRS)

[ttc0169]

Sad to hear this news along with the Hatton's closure,

I first attended Warley in 2012 and returned there eight times-last year being the now final visit, I really enjoyed my visits,

I hope the new Model world Live will be a successful replacement in April,

Roll on Model rail Scotland,lets hope this one continues.....

[murphaph]

First and it seems last visit in November gone. 

[Broithe]

5 minutes ago, murphaph said:

First and it seems last visit in November gone. 

I won some tickets in 2013, so I felt obliged to go.

I found it to be a bit of an ordeal, but it certainly was worth going - and I would be regretting never having gone now, if I hadn't gone then...

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, ttc0169 said:

Sad to hear this news along with the Hatton's closure,

I first attended Warley in 2012 and returned there eight times-last year being the now final visit, I really enjoyed my visits,

I hope the new Model world Live will be a successful replacement in April,

Roll on Model rail Scotland,lets hope this one continues.....

Woww - this AND Hattons!

[StevieB]

It’s not the first and it won’t be the last. Some time ago Wyre Forest and more recently Leamington & Warwick have thrown in the towel because they couldn’t stage a show at the right price. Both were good shows and still missed. On the other hand there are plenty of good shows around, eg Cheltenham, Wells and Ross-on-Wye, the latter put together by the local Rotarians, not a railway modeller amongst the but a first rate show nonetheless. The point about volunteer run events is well made, never enough people coming forward to help.

Stephen

[DJ Dangerous]

22 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

The youngsters won't get into the hobby because it's too expensive, they can buy a secondhand games console for the price some people are asking for a loco, Hattons is going to be a huge loss to the demographic and I think more outlets will close, I hope it doesn't turn into a monopoly for Hornby etc., we really are lucky to have IRM.

 

There's always the likes of a cheap Hornby 0-4-0 steamer and a few open wagons, to entice young blood into the hobby.

At a very young age, cheap and cheerful is probably more useful than prototypical accuracy.

But agreed once they get to a late teens / early twenties age, and the nostalgia of alcohol, cars and girls has started to wear off a little. Then they're at a stage, where @Westcorkrailway has mentioned being himself, where they want more accuracy, but can't afford €600 for a *#*#*#*#*#* loco!

[BosKonay]

Hornby are focusing more and more on licensing deals, railroad and TT so many options there for budget friendly entry models. 

Other companies are working hard to keep pricing on the detailed stuff reasonable (on average 29% cheaper than the big boys across the board)

The futures bright. The futures green (and grey maybe!)

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

16 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Hornby are focusing more and more on licensing deals, railroad and TT so many options there for budget friendly entry models. 

Other companies are working hard to keep pricing on the detailed stuff reasonable (on average 29% cheaper than the big boys across the board)

The futures bright. The futures green (and grey maybe!)

Fingers crossed and hopefully

[The Derry Road]

On 11/1/2024 at 7:38 PM, ttc0169 said:

Sad to hear this news along with the Hatton's closure,

I first attended Warley in 2012 and returned there eight times-last year being the now final visit, I really enjoyed my visits,

I hope the new Model world Live will be a successful replacement in April,

Roll on Model rail Scotland,lets hope this one continues.....

Fully agree Noel, I;ve been going to Warley for the past twenty years, maybe see you at Glasgow or Model world Live if your attending

[Horsetan]

On 11/1/2024 at 8:00 PM, Broithe said:

I won some tickets in 2013, so I felt obliged to go.

I found it to be a bit of an ordeal, but it certainly was worth going....

 

I went in 2000. It was the first and only time I ever attended. There were so many people that the only thing I can compare the crowds with is Bombay's main railway station at rush hour. Teeming humanity, and all too human smells.

Never dared go back after that.

[ttc0169]

52 minutes ago, The Derry Road said:

Fully agree Noel, I;ve been going to Warley for the past twenty years, maybe see you at Glasgow or Model world Live if your attending

Both already booked Raymond….look forward to meeting up again.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

When is Glasgow on? Is that railway specific?

[Broithe]

3 minutes ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

When is Glasgow on? Is that railway specific?

https://modelrail-scotland.co.uk/

[The Derry Road]

6 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

When is Glasgow on? Is that railway specific?

Its a smaller version of Warley, good show too

TDR

[ttc0169]

8 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

When is Glasgow on? Is that railway specific?

Yes-well worth a visit….before it’s too late…..!!!

[David Holman]

 Feel their pain and they are right to go out on a high. The Chatham Club's Dockyard exhibition initially disappeared due to problems in the venue itself, but ultimately withered on the vine for similar reasons cited by the Warley Club. Exhibitions are seriously hard work for those who run them and the bigger the show, the greater the work.

 However, for Chatham, it seems there may still be a yearning to return to the past. This year's new show, back in the Covered Slipway in the Dockyard has generated masses of interest with traders, layouts and societies actually asking to be included, simply on the back of the memories of twenty years ago.

 And at the time, it was great, because the venue added that special something - like Cultra - which a sports hall can't do on its own, however good the layouts and traders. The Chatham Show was a proper day out, because it was not just about the model railways - there was a whole lot of other stuff to see too.

 Come the last weekend in July, we will see if nostalgia actually is what it used to be, but (fingers crossed), it is looking good from a financial point of view, while post Covid, the Club has seen a large influx of new, younger members, who have breathed new life into not just the evenings, but daytime meetings too. Some of this is down to our large 00 layout which is fully DCC and last night up to a dozen people were happily running their trains via their mobile phones. Seems weird to me, but it works and that is what is important. The rest of us get to see all the wonderful latest new models trundling around in a realistic setting too.

 Our big 0 gauge tail chaser is likewise important for folk to run their trains, while we now have new projects 0 and 0n16.5 which are focussing on layout construction and which will eventually become small exhibition layouts too and the main 00 layout is being continuously developed. Somehow, and in a very short time, things have moved from the Doldrums to being very positive - and long may it continue. 

 Still not entirely sure why things have blossomed, but newer members are very active on social media and this has generated a lot of interest which in turn brings more people down to the club to see what is going on, who then want to join in. So the virtual world can contribute and the delights of the real world of model railways can still work its magic.

[Tullygrainey]

Thanks for this David. Badly needed cheer at this time of closures, apparent declining interest in the hobby and general gloom. Very encouraging. More power to the Chatham Club and best wishes for the July show. 

[Mayner]

There is an old saying that the only constant thing is change.

Forecasts of the demise of the hobby with clubs struggling to host exhibitions in large expensive venues, retailers and manufacturers going out of business is nothing new and has been a feature of the hobby for at least the past 50-60 years

I was a member of clubs in Ireland and the UK that had to switch from large expensive venues like the RDS to smaller venues as a result of falling visitor numbers and fatigue during the 1980s and 90s.

Prominent UK model  railway retailers like W&H and Model Railway Manufacturing (Kings Cross) went out of business during the 90s, Beatties a major UK chain of Model/Hobby shops failed during the early 2000s. The history of the large toy companies that dominated British RTR model railway manufacture up to the early 2000s is like a soap opera of bankrupcies, takeovers and mergers.  A sector once dominated by Hornby-Triang-Hornby vastly expanded following Kader (Bachmann UK) entry to the market during the early 90s and increased competition from newly emerging 'Commissioners and specialist Model Railway manufacturers like IRM, Accurascale with the emerging of Chinese OEM manufacturers prepared to undertake smaller production runs that the big toy Chinese companies.

Irish Railways had a poor image and a thing of the past while I was growing up in Dublin during the 60s and my parents hoped that 'I would grow out" of my interest in toy trains as a teenager, but I remained undeterred.

In New Zealand the hobby tends to be organised more around conventions were modellers get together to play trains, host and attend workshops and visit local exhibitions rather than exhibitions which tend to be more low key and smaller in scale than the UK. Conventions rotate between cities so although there is a lot of work involved in the organisation there is usually a break of several years before a convention returns to a city or town. 

http://www.nzamrc.org.nz/

 

[leslie10646]

It's very heartening to read David's reports regarding the Chatham Club - long may it continue. I was especially impressed by the "Social Media" comment. I have tended to sleep through the "Social Media Outreach" bit of IRRS committee meetings - I'll give it more attention!

Last Monday, my favourite ITV newscaster, Tom Bradley, introduced an end-piece on the the enduring popularity of model railways, starring the Cheltenhamd Model Centre and Pete Waterman (who had a bid involvement with Warley for several years). Worth a minute of your time to cheer you all up?

https://www.itv.com/watch/news/in-with-the-old-model-trains-see-a-resurgence-in-popularity/xw2nvdp