Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Here is a video I did in the past of one of my Silver Fox A Classes running on a Railroad Deltic chassis. I have no problems with slow running or pulling power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Nice vid, but do you not have two power bogies under her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Nice vid, but do you not have two power bogies under her? Some yes and some no either way it all comes down to decoder set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The final solution has been posted earlier and people still maintaining 2 power bogies are better (Off topic - were there Evergreen and M SC containers in 1981?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I was going to get a silver fox C class and use Black Beetle moter bogies, but i don,t know if one power bogie would be enough. Has anyone tried these yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Black Beetles come in 31 and 34mm wheelbase, you'd need 32mm. 10.5mm supplied wheels as opposed to 12.5mm, but with the right sideframe, a blind man wouldn't spot the difference. 2 Black Beetles would be a logical choice if you could, and I know you can, cast the sideframes for an easier build? Edited December 10, 2014 by Glenderg Brain needed a reboot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I think you can get the 32mm wheel base ok, not sure about the wheel size. I will give Charlie a call and see. Another way is to use a Highlevel moter & Gears which work well and you have combinations of ratio & Yashima motor (which are great). I have used two of these in G class shunters and they work well. There is a plan of the gears on their website. http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk Here is a pic of one in my G class chassis, it only has one driving axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Hi All I'm building a few Silver Fox Class A & C loco kits and going with Tenshodo bogie motors, two of them, and pcb fabricated chassis. On the first kit the bogie side hubs are at 34mm cters so I'm going with 35mm wheelbase Tenshodo with 12mm wheels. I did notice the difference on the CIE drawing- wheelbase at 8'-0'' (32mm) but decided to stick with the model size- can always change on the next one, though also involves making new bogie sides. The Tenshodo motors sit under the chassis needing no cut-out except a hole and brass fixing plate soldered underneath, whereas Blackbeetle bogie motors are taller and need a chassis cut-out- otherwise the floor has to be raised to mount BB under the chassis. To me this is a far simpler way to do the chassis than cutting up an existing one. WB35 Tenshodo cost around £36.00 at Branchlines plus £6.00, for a set of 12mm BB wheels, and a bit of 1mm pcb board 300x200mm sheet €20.00 This system will be used for Class A locos also- with the mod of an extra axle in brass frame and pin-point bearings. The third axle will have no drive its, just cosmetic for the Co-Co bogie. Eoin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Hi All I'm building a few Silver Fox Class A & C loco kits and going with Tenshodo bogie motors, two of them, and pcb fabricated chassis. On the first kit the bogie side hubs are at 34mm cters so I'm going with 35mm wheelbase Tenshodo with 12mm wheels. I did notice the difference on the CIE drawing- wheelbase at 8'-0'' (32mm) but decided to stick with the model size- can always change on the next one, though also involves making new bogie sides. The Tenshodo motors sit under the chassis needing no cut-out except a hole and brass fixing plate soldered underneath, whereas Blackbeetle bogie motors are taller and need a chassis cut-out- otherwise the floor has to be raised to mount BB under the chassis. To me this is a far simpler way to do the chassis than cutting up an existing one. WB35 Tenshodo cost around £36.00 at Branchlines plus £6.00, for a set of 12mm BB wheels, and a bit of 1mm pcb board 300x200mm sheet €20.00 This system will be used for Class A locos also- with the mod of an extra axle in brass frame and pin-point bearings. The third axle will have no drive its, just cosmetic for the Co-Co bogie. Eoin That sounds interesting! Can you take photos of the build? I'm sure many here would like to see it progress, and going by your other work, I expect the finished product will be something good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi aclass007 Her is a shot of the present situation- design and parts decisions stage;- A collection of parts from Branchlines, Nairnshire Model Supplies, Dart Castings, Studio Scale, Keen Systems and the Kinvara-Train man. The drawing is a mixture of the SF model and the CIE drawing- the two do differ! there is a slight difference in the drawn length and quite a difference in the height of the body on the CIE drawing compared to the SF body. And as mentioned above the bogie sides on the SF kit are a bit long. I am very busy building the Green Things at the moment so only find time late at night to develop this up, though with the drawing worked out for the chassis, work will be commencing soon in the new year and I will post a thread on progress. Note on the drawing;- the Tenshodo motors fit under the chassis and the chassis fits nicely into the SF body up against the resin quadrants in the corners of the moulding, this will allow for a slip in pocket at one end of the body for the chassis and a screw at other to hold it all together nicely. I'm using Kadee NEM couplers and socket, but because the buffers stick out a bit so will the coupler! So I'm trying to fit a Keen Coupler Plate to the chassis to allow the coupler to lengthen on the bends. Otherwise I will have to use the Kadee 146 Draft Gear Box type off a brass drop bracket soldered to the chassis. Eoin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi aclass007 Her is a shot of the present situation- design and parts decisions stage;- A collection of parts from Branchlines, Nairnshire Model Supplies, Dart Castings, Studio Scale, Keen Systems and the Kinvara-Train man. The drawing is a mixture of the SF model and the CIE drawing- the two do differ! there is a slight difference in the drawn length and quite a difference in the height of the body on the CIE drawing compared to the SF body. And as mentioned above the bogie sides on the SF kit are a bit long. I am very busy building the Green Things at the moment so only find time late at night to develop this up, though with the drawing worked out for the chassis, work will be commencing soon in the new year and I will post a thread on progress. Note on the drawing;- the Tenshodo motors fit under the chassis and the chassis fits nicely into the SF body up against the resin quadrants in the corners of the moulding, this will allow for a slip in pocket at one end of the body for the chassis and a screw at other to hold it all together nicely. I'm using Kadee NEM couplers and socket, but because the buffers stick out a bit so will the coupler! So I'm trying to fit a Keen Coupler Plate to the chassis to allow the coupler to lengthen on the bends. Otherwise I will have to use the Kadee 146 Draft Gear Box type off a brass drop bracket soldered to the chassis. Eoin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) The drawing is a mixture of the SF model and the CIE drawing- the two do differ! there is a slight difference in the drawn length and quite a difference in the height of the body on the CIE drawing compared to the SF body. Understatement of the year right there....... The CIE drawing will also show you that the windscreens are the wrong size, shape and position on the SF model and the EMD headlight is not even centered....... Edited December 12, 2014 by Blaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Understatement of the year right there....... The CIE drawing will also show you that the windscreens are the wrong size, shape and position on the SF model and the EMD headlight is not even centered....... Is that all? Sure that's a contender for model of the year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Eoin are you planning to offer a RTR chassis for the A Class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi Dave Yes, it will be available as a kit or RTR, made to order for those interested, the chassis design will fit (with adjustments) the Class A, B, C & 121- all projects on the design workbench!! Will I put you down for 10 Class A units?? Eoin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi Dave Yes, it will be available as a kit or RTR, made to order for those interested, the chassis design will fit (with adjustments) the Class A, B, C & 121- all projects on the design workbench!! Will I put you down for 10 Class A units?? Eoin I'll defo take a few as I want to build some A classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richrua Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Nice job. I quite like the silver fox kits in general. There is something very satisfying about putting together and painting your own loco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enniscorthyman Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 A fine machine they were, and such a great sound at full cry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) And CIE's proper diesel loco livery Edited December 12, 2014 by Noel lexdisia stireks aagin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 And still to be seen, heard, travelled behind and enjoyed on the DCDR, thankfully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richrua Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Black and orange or orange and black. Either way a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Silver! I love the silver ones Eoin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richrua Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Ok fair enough they're good too. There are some great shots of them in the Irish traction book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Personally I would have reservations about using Tenshodo SPUD motor bogies in a mixed traffic loco like a B or C Class. I have tried the bogies in a railcar and a number of small diesels and ended up replacing the units with Black Beetles or my own drives. The Tenshodo bogie is designed as an underfloor unit for railcars and trams, but will only runs reliably at high speed (small fast running open framed motor & (15:1) gearing) the bogies are difficult to control at low speed and while accelerating have little low speed torque. The standard Backbeetle is marginally better with a high quality Mashima motor and metal gearing (still 15:1), the 25:1 option would give much better running across a wider speed range. The other issue with a two power bogie drive is whether to treat each bogie as an independent unit and risk stalling due to poor power pick up or to wire the bogies in series or parallel and risk surging (jerky running) due to the back EMF from the motors when running down hill with a heavy train. I found this to be a serious problem with locos with two motor drive in G Scale whether the motors are wired in series or parallel. This potentially could results in de-railments and accidental uncoupling due to coupler snatching in OO & N. While I would prefer a centre motor with flywheel drive to both bogies, the Hornby Railroad Deltic is probably the simplest and most cost effective compromise for a batch-built A Class. Edited December 13, 2014 by Mayner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I bought a Tenshodo motor bogie and thought that it was not that great, so i am going to try a Black Beetle in my C Class and see how it goes. If that works then i will do another C Class. Im building a Plasser Tamper Machine so i might use one for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirflick Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I bought a Tenshodo motor bogie and thought that it was not that great, so i am going to try a Black Beetle in my C Class and see how it goes.If that works then i will do another C Class. Im building a Plasser Tamper Machine so i might use one for that. popeye - keep us posted on the Plasser! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 221Sa builder unknown from a Q Kits B201 I bought this from the "Belfast Caboose" at a Hotel Victor swapmeet about 15 years ago, really captured the look of these loco in their last years, passed on an MIR 071 detailed and finished to a similar standard. Chassis from a shortened Athearn F7 one bolster moved back to shorten wheelbase, flywheels removed. I still have to finish re-wiring from a decoder. Walthers/Lifelike Proto 1000 F7 chassis might be suitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnthebox Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 [ATTACH=CONFIG]16377[/ATTACH]221Sa builder unknown from a Q Kits B201 I bought this from the "Belfast Caboose" at a Hotel Victor swapmeet about 15 years ago, really captured the look of these loco in their last years, passed on an MIR 071 detailed and finished to a similar standard. [ATTACH=CONFIG]16378[/ATTACH] Chassis from a shortened Athearn F7 one bolster moved back to shorten wheelbase, flywheels removed. I still have to finish re-wiring from a decoder. Walthers/Lifelike Proto 1000 F7 chassis might be suitable. [ATTACH=CONFIG]16379[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]16380[/ATTACH] John, when you mention the Hotel Victor, are you talking about the one on Rochestown Avenue, Co. Diblin, I got quite a few bits there myself, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josefstadt Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 [ATTACH=CONFIG]16377[/ATTACH]221Sa builder unknown from a Q Kits B201 Lovely looking model John. Certainly does capture the feel of the prototype. Now all you need is a rake of ex-AEC push-pull cars to complete the scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Yes 221Sa was bought in a swap meet in the Hotel Victor near Sallynoggin and a great example of what can be achieved with an indifferent model and a lot of hard work. Although out of my modelling era I could not bring myself to dropping the Sa suffix or re-painting the loco as a B201. While the re-motored C Class were mainly known for their work on the Dublin suburban, they regularly worked bagged and bulk cement trains between Platin and Dublin, they also regularly worked Dublin-Limerick through passenger services via Nenagh and the Direct Curve, Cement and goods trains in the Limerick area, the Loughrea mixed and even a brief spell in express passenger service between Dublin-Cork. A radical change from their C Class days pottering around in a cloud of smoke on branch line trains and pilot duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I remember hitching a cab ride in one, I think it was 233, on a ballast train from Clonsilla to North Wall, about 1979. Excellent stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Got the Black Beetle into my C Class. It's 15:1 ratio with 34mm wheelbase and 12mm wheels. It runs very well, i tried pulling 9 wagons and no problem at all, it could pull more. Along with the other bogie it has all wheel pickup and runs over points well. This last pic shows the old motor nearest camera, it was a rough runner. Edited December 29, 2014 by popeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 What's it like on slow running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishthump Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Nice work... Aside from how well it runs, it's a lovely paint job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 When i got it, it was bright orange so i put some brown on it and it looks ok. The slow running is very good right down to a crawl, but keep the track clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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