IRM Cement Bubble Poll - Mercig Factory Weathering or Pristine Finish?

[irishthump]

But people are, they wont buy them if they are weathered.

 

Well personally speaking, preference for pristine models was based on the fact that I prefer to weather all of my own stock. It has nothing at all to do with the quality of Mercig's work.

Funds permitting, I would have no probelm buying weathered versions if that was what was available.

[irishthump]

Totally get where you're coming from on that, and samples would be seen and have to be approved/rejected. Below is a sample of a product that was mass produced from a Mercig master in OO scale to give you an idea.

 

https://az837062.vo.msecnd.net/product-images.axd/IMG_7305MAY16.jpg?preset=large

 

As an example of RTR weathering, that's stunning.

[Noel]

Totally get where you're coming from on that, and samples would be seen and have to be approved/rejected. Below is a sample of a product that was mass produced from a Mercig master in OO scale to give you an idea.

 

https://az837062.vo.msecnd.net/product-images.axd/IMG_7305MAY16.jpg?preset=large

 

Yes I've seen that before. Superb, and that kind of mild weathering really appeals to me but not the manky filthy weathering which often seems ott.

[irishthump]

Yes I've seen that before. Superb, and that kind of mild weathering really appeals to me but not the manky filthy weathering which often seems ott.

 

But in the case of the cement bubbles heavy weathering is appropriate. You've seen the pics with the thick layers of cement on them!

[Warbonnet]

As an example of RTR weathering, that's stunning.

 

This is the standard of finish we would be aiming to achieve but replicating the typical finish of the bubbles in their final years...

 

If it's not possible to replicate this then we will not proceed and go with pristine and let the lads get their spray guys out. It's top quality or nothing.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Warbonnet

[skinner75]

But in the case of the cement bubbles heavy weathering is appropriate. You've seen the pics with the thick layers of cement on them!

 

You could get close to the state of most of the bubbles by spraying them with glue & dipping them in a bowl of flour I reckon!

[Weshty]

For texture yes, but it is the Jackson Pollackesque variation of moss, rust, grey, brown grey, white, algae that has to be captured...

[Noel]

But in the case of the cement bubbles heavy weathering is appropriate. You've seen the pics with the thick layers of cement on them!

 

Sure, I do know what they looked like in their final years. I just won't put anything that dirty or ugly looking on our layout. Its just a "toy train" layout after all and I like a bit of colour. I appreciate thats just me and understand others may prefer otherwise. If they are mildly weathered or pristine I'll buy a rake, but if they look like "final years" I would regrettably pass. But I don't think it will be a problem if IRM produce some packs that are weathered, and other packs that are pristine. Win-Win everybody happy.

 

 

PS: This may be modelling heresy but personally I never liked 'some' of the excessively heavily weathered MM locos posted here that were absolutely filthy all over.

[BosKonay]

Hi Noel

 

You'll find very few photos of 'clean' bubbles never mind their 'final years'. They generally seemed to go from paint shop to 'Manky' in about a month of service

[Dave]

I have a client that will only run pristine, he was very fussy about the ballast it had had to be absolutely perfect.

He won't touch anything that's weathered.

 

Rule number one applies

[Dunluce Castle]

I am also like some people here, and do worry about how factory weathering looks, yes the master might be stunning but it's all about how the factories in china can do it. I was worried to see how DJM's J94's would turn out weathered but its safe to say that the people in china have been able to capture the masters pretty well and it looks good. Here's some pics on hattons of the production models, notice no difference in price as well which is always a plus.

http://www.hattons.co.uk/94065/DJ_Models_Dave_Jones_J9406_Austerity_0_6_0ST_8_in_NCB_Mountain_Ash_Colliery_lined_green_very_heavily_weath/StockDetail.aspx

http://www.hattons.co.uk/94063/DJ_Models_Dave_Jones_J9404_Austerity_0_6_0ST_1763_in_NCB_Peckfield_Colliery_lined_maroon_with_chevrons_ver/StockDetail.aspx

[Noel]

Ok two weathered examples to compare.

 

Gentle to moderate weathering but there is no sign of the attractive two tone blue Irish Cement lettering, I assume because it wasn't used on what is probably the grey livery. Just looks a little plain without some logo visible.

 

IMHO - maybe reality but ugly is not harsh enough to describe how awful this looks and nothing looking that dirty is ever going to run on our layout

 

Anyway isn't a great complaint to have - another wonderful fine scale Irish model about to hit the shelves and we are all worried about dirt!

 

PS: Presume the chassis will need the same gull neck coupling fix for the NEM socket.

[Garfield]

Both those wagons are in the white/ivory livery so both have a heavy coating of dirt. The grey livery was worn by the first batches of bubbles when they first entered traffic in the 1960s.

 

Re. The coupling, as we explained when the swan neck coupling solution was announced for the ballast, it will also apply to the bubbles because the chassis is of the same design.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Garfield
Missing word.

[Noel]

Both those wagons are in the white/ivory livery so both have a heavy coating of dirt. The grey livery was worn by the first batches of bubbles when they first entered traffic in the 1960s.

 

Re. The coupling, we explained when the swan neck coupling solution was announced for the ballast, it will also apply to the bubbles because the chassis is of the same design.

 

Thanks Patrick

[Glenderg]

Noel,

 

One of the skills of any dedicated weathering specialist, is not, in fact to exactly replicate the weathering, but to also scale it down accordingly. Were you to weather a wagon to that extent, you'd also be obliged to weather track, ballast, buildings and everything in sight accordingly, but that's not particularly visually pleasing.

 

Secondly, the hatches of these wagons were caked in layers of cement dust, up to 12mm thick in places, and no amount of effort by our Asian friends is going to replicate that. A flour sifter, cement dust, and some interesting techniques will get you there.

 

Lastly, that's not gentle weathering up top. That's how they all looked, and limerick junction looks like the Serengeti.

 

[iarnrod]

Just to add that the wagons also took on a different appearance when wet and dry, as they were caked in cement and muck after all. In the two pictures above, the top wagon is dry but in the second photo, the wagon looks like it had a soaking a while back. Indeed the wagon in the second photo had been stored at Limerick for some time, which may have had an effect on its appearance, as it hadn't been subjected to normal traffic conditions for some time. If weathering replicating the top wagon in the photo could be replicated by the factory, I for one would be more than happy with that, as that is generally how they appeared when in traffic.

[DiveController]

I was hoping for something other than the ivory livery, but predictably that has been produced first. I'm going to hold off for the orange wagons and I do not recall these being as heavily weathered as the ivory version. They may have been. I would prefer to have them pristine or very lightly weathered

Edited September 24, 2016 by DiveController

[Mayner]

I was hoping for something other than the ivory livery, but predictably that has been produced first. I'm going to hold off for the orange wagons and I do not recall these being as heavily weathers as the ivory version. They may have been. I would prefer to have them Pristibe or very lightly weathered

 

Don't know if its the rose-tinted glasses but the orange bubbles seem to have been cleaner, possibly some change in the loading process when production was shifted from Boyne Road to Platin in the mid-70s.

[patrick]

Don't know if its the rose-tinted glasses but the orange bubbles seem to have been cleaner.....

 

This discussion had me thinking the same thing.

[Weshty]

I have a client...He won't touch anything that's weathered.

 

Refraining from responding with ribaldry on this one...must.be.nice.

[Rialto]

Is there a scheduled date of release for these bubbles?

[Noel]

I have a client that will only run pristine . . . He won't touch anything that's weathered.

Refraining from responding with ribaldry on this one...must.be.nice.

 

I totally understand where Dave's customer is coming from, and I would be on much the same wave length. I only have two factory weathered locos and I won't be weathering any rolling stock on our layout. Toy trains for many are a form of escapism into a world of 'pretend' not reality. The real world is dirty enough.

[Glenderg]

I totally understand where Dave's customer is coming from, and I would be on much the same wave length. I only have two factory weathered locos and I won't be weathering any rolling stock on our layout. Toy trains for many are a form of escapism into a world of 'pretend' not reality. The real world is dirty enough.

 

Noted Noel. Ad Infinitum.

 

You don't like weathering on your toy trains, but this is a modelling forum, and in the world of naval, aviation, or armour modelling, weathered work puts the representation of the miniature into the realm of the realistic, even works of art I'd wager.

 

You've had 9 posts on this thread so far, and IRM is trying to gauge sentiment of the community. The thread is in danger of becoming your personal crusade about weathering issues.

[NIRCLASS80]

If they are weathered to the standard of the Dapol Silver Bullet Slurry wagons then I would happily buy them. Keep up the good work.

[Noel]

Richie, I am not the only one. All I was pointing out was that I was on the same wave length as Dave's customer. I accept probably more people like weathering than not.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Noel

[Warbonnet]

Just to say lads, this isn't set in stone (pardon the rubbish pun) yet and will be decided at a later stage. We will also be doing bubbles in other liveries and as there's a good chance they'll be done in a pristine finish. There could also be runs of ivory in pristine finish further down the line if we go for a weathered finish this time out if market demand is there.

[RobertRoche]

I would be for the weathered finish, as I would probably never weather them myself.

[Rialto]

Lightly weathered please.

Survey completed. looking forward to getting these.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Rialto

[John-r]

Did the grey bubbles have logos on them, my reason being ,would the grey livery look better

Heavily weathered, maybe the ivory and orange livery light to medium weathered so as the

Coloured liveries stand out a bit more.just my opinion and trying not to over complicate

A fantastic addition to our hobby. You are all doing a great job many thanks.

[Glenderg]

Did the grey bubbles have logos on them, my reason being ,would the grey livery look better

Heavily weathered, maybe the ivory and orange livery light to medium weathered so as the

Coloured liveries stand out a bit more.just my opinion and trying not to over complicate

A fantastic addition to our hobby. You are all doing a great job many thanks.

 

 

Very lightly weathering seems to be how they looked in grey. Also note the placement of BULK CEMENT stencil varies in height. Also the numbers on the walkway don't match with the last three letters of their running numbers, as it did in later wagons.

[Barl]

I just completed the survey there now. Personally I've never really bought weathered model's before but yet I've always weathered any stock I built myself. I think it could be the fear of weathering expensive new models rather than not liking them being weathered at all.

It has been mentioned several times about standard factory weathering not being great but, in this case, I'm pretty sure the IRM guys know this all too well and they're not going to produce something that they don't like themselves!

For these reasons I think the weathered option would be the way to for me, if it was to be offered.

 

Keep up the good work guys

[Noel]

Ok - hands up. I have a confession to make. Today I bought a 'weathered' orange cement bubble wagon. And I have to admit it looks quite well in that livery with the moderate weathering. Confession no 2, its hitched to a factory weathered 183 and in the background is a factory weathered Dutch GSV. Mr Pristine is now in hiding!!! But honest most my other stock is . . .

 

 

Assuming IRMs look as well if not even better than this you can count me in for 4 packs.

[RedRich]

I'd take a break from the thread for a day or two if I were you Noel. You seem to be showing signs of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

Rich,

[NIRCLASS80]

Noel you dirty dog.

[DiveController]

Like that orange, Noel! Never really liked the weathering on 183. Doesn't seem authentic in that pale 'splashed by cement' look, with little dirt beneath. Probably ok for it's time but prefer the darker weathering dome by one of the weathering masters on the site. Was this truly representative of the external appearance of one of the 181s in traffic at one of the cement factories?