A Class Pre Production First Look!

[Warbonnet]

Cheers lads, we popped over to the South Dublin Model Railway Club this evening and got this photo courtesy of one of their members, and original A Class makers plate! Thanks to everyone who came to have a look at our A Class this evening! 

[leslie10646]

Great stuff gents. I'm glad I've got my order in.

Mind you, you'll have to put up a video with twice that many wagons - I run a dozen bubbles and a brake behind my 1880-built J15 0-6-0!

And yes, the slow running was brilliant - I was relieved when the Logo came up - I thought the clip would go on for another five minutes until the Fert had gone by!

[Warbonnet]

Cheers Leslie, we will film a haulage test with her tomorrow, but at nearly half a kilo in weight it has plenty of heft for haulage.

We've also made it very handy to access switches for DC users and the chip if you want to add a DCC decoder, as Patrick shall now demonstrate. (He's available for all your hand modelling needs too!) The roof is held in place by a series of small magnets. Very handy. You can see the bank of super capacitors and the circuit board too.  

[NIRCLASS80]

28 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by NIRCLASS80

[Warbonnet]

3 minutes ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Do the DCC ready versions come with speakers already installed?

No, as if we do go ahead with a sound project it would be multiple high grade speakers, so there would be a premium on them. 

Cheers!

Fran

[NIRCLASS80]

Thanks. Is the sound project not a definite yet?

[popeye]

Can you get at the switches for the lights from the top?

 

I love the cooling fan, it would be nice if it went round.

On the IRM website for the loco's spec it does say there will be two speakers.

[patrick]

Stunning model! What type of DCC decoder will be required? I'm sure many of us will want to have decoders on hand when the models arrive on our doorsteps.

 

[Warbonnet]

1 hour ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Thanks. Is the sound project not a definite yet?

Getting Crossley sound is proving a challenge, given the only working ones are in Australia. But we are working on it, bare with us on it and we will make an announcement when the time comes.

57 minutes ago, popeye said:

Can you get at the switches for the lights from the top?

 

I love the cooling fan, it would be nice if it went round.

On the IRM website for the loco's spec it does say there will be two speakers.

I will pop up a pic of the switches tomorrow. If we do sound it will be a twin speaker set up and very loud. We just need to nail down Crossley but we will have more news soon.

47 minutes ago, patrick said:

Stunning model! What type of DCC decoder will be required? I'm sure many of us will want to have decoders on hand when the models arrive on our doorsteps.

 

We’re currently testing some and will draw up a list.

Cheers!

Fran

[NIRCLASS80]

3 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

Getting Crossley sound is proving a challenge, given the only working ones are in Australia. But we are working on it, bare with us on it and we will make an announcement when the time comes.

I will pop up a pic of the switches tomorrow. If we do sound it will be a twin speaker set up and very loud. We just need to nail down Crossley but we will have more news soon.

We’re currently testing some and will draw up a list.

Cheers!

Fran

Sorry to trouble you again but does this mean that the re-engined GM sound file will definitely be available?

[PJR]

Don't think the wife will allow this in the house lol

[leslie10646]

Cheers Leslie, we will film a haulage test with her tomorrow, but at nearly half a kilo in weight it has plenty of heft for haulage.

Don't overdo it, lads, the real thing wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

Interesting to see inside - very neat - but where is the smoke unit?

[Warbonnet]

17 minutes ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Sorry to trouble you again but does this mean that the re-engined GM sound file will definitely be available?

We can commit to anything yet, we’re just working on it. I know it’s not a great answer but we will give the full background story when we have news on it, we will have that in a couple of weeks, promise! 

[irishthump]

11 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

 If we do sound it will be a twin speaker set up and very loud.

Fran

I take it the non sound equipped locos will still have speakers installed as standard?

[MD220]

Fantastic looking model lads, fair play. I've one on order and I'm tempted to go for  a 2nd. Any idea of an approximate delivery date? No pressure, I know it'll be worth waiting for!

[DiveController]

On 10/3/2019 at 1:59 PM, leslie10646 said:

Don't overdo it, lads, the real thing wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

I'm not sure if I misunderstood you, Leslie. You're saying the Metrovick A class were poor pullers with a tractive effort of 55,000 lb/f? I believe that was with the original Crossley HSTV8 (reliability aside) but open to correction if that that was subsequently with the EMD re-engine.

[leslie10646]

I was talking about the Crossleys, of course. The "R" version was a totally different business!

The Blessed Oliver wanted to buy American originally, at least his successors sorted thing out!

[BSGSV]

16 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

I was talking about the Crossleys, of course. The "R" version was a totally different business!

The Blessed Oliver wanted to buy American originally, at least his successors sorted thing out!

I would understand a comment about a lack of power regarding the original C class, but anything I've seen suggests the Crossley A's were able to shift a good load. If they were working! That said, I have no personal experience of the original A's. 

[DiveController]

7 hours ago, BSGSV said:

I would understand a comment about a lack of power regarding the original C class, but anything I've seen suggests the Crossley A's were able to shift a good load. If they were working! That said, I have no personal experience of the original A's. 

I also have no personal experience of these locomotives but Hirsch & Doyle's 1979 book quotes that tractive efforts of the A class as only 46,000 lb/f with the EMD 12-645 when downrated to 1325hp from 1650hp to improve reliability of the associated auxiliary components. This suggest they pulled well regardless of the installed engine (when operative). The C class of course were vey underpowered with the original engine but actually would have been very decent locos when re-engined and upgraded to Class B (800-1100 hp) locomotives

[leslie10646]

On 10/8/2019 at 2:43 PM, BSGSV said:

I would understand a comment about a lack of power regarding the original C class, but anything I've seen suggests the Crossley A's were able to shift a good load. If they were working! That said, I have no personal experience of the original A's. 

I could send you a log of one in 1965, when it took over from No.207 at Dundalk en route to Dublin. I quote from my comments in the log of 207's run to Dundalk (with 10 bogie coaches, about 350 tons).

"No.207 was declared a failure with a hot box at Dundalk and the journey was completed hauled by A Class diesel electric locos. A19 did pretty poorly, only managing the forties to Drogheda, falling to 40 at Kellystown and 59 after. She failed at Drogheda and A27 took over, struggling to manage even the low fifties! Mind you, they were still with their original engines then."

Sorry, the best thing any CIE engineer ever did was send money to La Grange to re-engine them! The rebuilds appear to have done good service, although by then I was living in England and my train timing was behind very foreign steam engines.

All that said, I've got a silver one on order - they were as much an iconic part of the scene as the 121s were to be - thanks for the update, by the way, Dave. We've got a St Patrick, so what name will young Paddy take?

[BosKonay]

Andy York just quoted as

Quote

Phil and I met up with Patrick and Fran today and we had chance to give the A Class a good look over and a run. It's probably the best quality D/E loco I've come across in any marketplace. The mass and performance is impressive, silky smooth and virtually silent

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138791-irm-to-produce-cie-a001-class-locomotive/&do=findComment&comment=3695315

To say we're humbled by that kind of review would be an understatement

[popeye]

I would have no doubts about quality, performance and finish.

Really looking forward to getting my hands on this beauty. 

[leslie10646]

Gents

No surprise to read those comments on RMWeb - the Irish have been leading the way in diesel models ever since Mr Murphy produced his double-ended Yankee!

Well done!

 

[NIRCLASS80]

Never doubted it. Well done to all involved 

[Mayner]

The Metrovicks were considered to have a very good electrical system compared to other contemporary  British & GM diesel electrics. Like the American Alco & GE diesels the Metrovicks had very good low speed haulage ability necessary for hauling heavy goods trains.

There is a good account of A Class operation in a Dan Renihan IRRS paper including an A Class hauling the very heavy Bertram Mills Circus train over Barnagh in damp conditions without slipping.

Interestingly both classes of Irish Sulzers had Metropolitan Vickers electrical systems both were considered to be more reliable than the Crossleys but handicapped by a low power to weight ratio because of the very heavy Sulzer engines, despite their low power the B101 were entrusted with the heavy Cork-Rosslare Boat Train over a difficult steeply graded route and successfully handled passenger and freight work on the Cork, Waterford and Limerick lines until displaced by GM locomotives.

[jhb171achill]

A gentleman I knew, an Inchicore fitter who was called to fix breakdowns the odd time, had nothing good to say about Crossley “A”s or “C”s..... I don’t recall if he commented on B101s, though.

He said that cracked fuel pipes and oil leaks were a major cause of failures, because they had put what was basically a marine diesel engine into a jolting, jarring railway locomotive.

When I get my silver one, I’ll have to weather it with oil stains and general grime. Please don't tell IRM, though, or that Pat fella will cancel my order!

[leslie10646]

The Metrovicks were considered to have a very good electrical system .....

Am I right that the "AR" kept their British electrical systems when re-engined?

[Garfield]

12 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

The Metrovicks were considered to have a very good electrical system .....

Am I right that the "AR" kept their British electrical systems when re-engined?

Correct, Leslie. It was wisely decided that there was no need to fix something that wasn't broken.

[leslie10646]

Good Lord, the Irish in the lead again! Common sense!!!!

[Mayner]

 

1 hour ago, leslie10646 said:

Good Lord, the Irish in the lead again! Common sense!!!!

General Motors had already laid the groundwork in the 1950s re-powering Alco and other less satisfactory diesel locomotives with EMD power units in the United States.

While General Motors locos had a reputation of being reliable and trouble free, Alco and other American loco builders struggled with reliability and maintenance problems similar to the British builders into the late 1950s.

Like the Crossleys early post War Alco diesels suffered from engine problems but had a very good electrical system (possibly an association between GEC (USA) Westinghouse & Metropolitan Vickers).

While CIE retained the existing electrical and control system during the re-builds, the cooling system appears to have been upgraded for the new power units most likely in response to problems experienced  with re-powered locos in the United States.

[leslie10646]

Thanks, John, for the very informative piece of background, which was news to me.

By a strange coincidence, I was reading an article in "Backtrack" about the end of steam in USA - ten years before UK, almost to a day. Like the UK, some of the steam locos being scrapped were barely five years old. Again, CIE was ahead of the game had the wits to bite the bullet and replace the lot, which were

Earlier, you mentioned Dan Renihan's articles in The Journal, which are well worth a read, as Dan had enough experience of the various classes to write a couple of books!

When I've got my set of IRRS JOurnals to hand, I'll try and list some "required reading".

 

[Noel]

On 10/3/2019 at 6:24 PM, Warbonnet said:

No, as if we do go ahead with a sound project it would be multiple high grade speakers, so there would be a premium on them. 

Cheers!

Fran

Hi Fran, apologies I'm a little confused, just to clarify so any existing pre-orders may not include a speaker, is that correct, or have I misunderstood the above? Thanks. Noel

 

[Warbonnet]

35 minutes ago, Noel said:

Hi Fran, apologies I'm a little confused, just to clarify so any existing pre-orders may not include a speaker, is that correct, or have I misunderstood the above? Thanks. Noel

 

Hi Noel,

Apologies for the confusion, that was not my intention. We were in discussions with industry officials on this and happy to report back that they will contain the speakers as above.

Cheers!

Fran

[BosKonay]

Huge thanks to Andy York ( @Andy Y ) for these spectacular photos of the A Class prototype.

[spudfan]

If any of you lads up in the IRM Tower headquarters have been feeling poorly lately i.e. lots of stabbing pain in the arms, legs and torso well I am afraid it is my fault. The wife happened to see my proposed purchases in my shopping cart and went away and got some dolls from the attic. One now sports a cardboard name tag which says "That crowd up in IRM Towers". She has been dutifully sticking pins into the aforementioned doll.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by spudfan