JM Design CIE 20T Goods Brake Preview

[Mayner]

A brief preview of the CAD work for the prototype of our first 4mm OO Gauge traditional Irish goods wagon a CIE 20T goods brake. 

The prototype is to verify that certain elements of the model are of adequate strength and to check the re-production of finer detail such before we progress to the production CAD work, including full rivet detail, buffers, brake gear, marker lamps, foot steps and the guards stove and bench seats.

At this stage we are looking at the option of producing the model using 3D SLA technology with an abs material or vacuum casting using an abs resin material.

We are looking at the option of producing the brake van as a rtr model or a CKD kit similar to the Trix Private Owner wagons of the 1970s.

All going well we expect to have a preview of the prototype within the next two weeks.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Mayner

[flange lubricator]

Certainly a must for ant Irish layout .

 

[Georgeconna]

Very nice, The kit will l have about 10 parts in it by the looks of it

 

[mphoey]

Do not forget tiny bus models have also used a cad print to create a master to do a resin run which has been very successful with 2 Irish buses already released and 3 more to come this year using this technique

[iarnrod]

7 hours ago, mphoey said:

Do not forget tiny bus models have also used a cad print to create a master to do a resin run which has been very successful with 2 Irish buses already released and 3 more to come this year using this technique

Whats the three due this year?

I think this method is the only commercially viable way to create authentic models for the early CIE era. Best of luck and hopefully these models can proceed to production stage. Would love to see some of the early CIE built carriages produced via this method.

Edited July 1, 2020 by iarnrod

[mphoey]

1 hour ago, iarnrod said:

Whats the three due this year?

I think this method is the only commercially viable way to create aithentic models for the early CIE era. Best of luck and hopefully these models can proceed to production stage. Would love to see some of the early CIE built carriages produced via this method.

au coach type ss schoolbus short and long http://www.modelbuszone.co.uk/tmb/kits/tiny.htm     https://www.facebook.com/TinyBusandCoachKits/

[StevieB]

 

John

All looks very good. How does this fit in with the Rank wagon and six plank open you recently announced? Are you planning a range of both rtr and kit wagons?

Stephen

[Noel]

Very enticing John. Looking good and looking forward to it.

[iarnrod]

5 hours ago, mphoey said:

au coach type ss schoolbus short and long http://www.modelbuszone.co.uk/tmb/kits/tiny.htm     https://www.facebook.com/TinyBusandCoachKits/

Thanks Martin.

[RKX]

Very interesting, and I'll look forward to that hitting the market. It's a must have. 

Always wondered about the procedure in designing these, and why more aren't on the market. Do you go out to an existing wagon and take measurements, or are there old blue prints somewhere? 

Edited July 1, 2020 by RKX

[DiveController]

Nice job, John! I'll be needing a few

[jhb171achill]

An absolute must for the "green & grey" era. I'll take three.

[Richard EH]

Looks good John! I'll have one at least!

 

Richard

[Mayner]

The 3D printed SLA prototype arrived yesterday quickly followed by a trip to the paint shop to highlight fine detail. 

Buffers are temp MJT and will be replaced with more prototypical GSR type in the production version.

The model received minimum cleaning up or surface treatment before priming and I managed to damage the sole bar at one end while opening up a pre-formed hole for the buffer casting.

I did not realise the roof was not sitting correctly until I saw the photo.

 

Although some minor adjustments are required, I am reasonably happy with the strength of components and surface finish of the SLA model the next step is completing the detailing and adding separately applied features including brake gear, buffers, coupling mounts, foot steps, side lamps and interior detail. 

At this stage the production version is likely to be a vacuum cast urethane resin with abs characteristics, though its feasible to produce 3D printed SLA models to order.

[flange lubricator]

Looks very good at this stage for a comparison here is a great shot of brian Flannigans from Flickr 

 

[StevieB]

Wow is all I can say.

Stephen

[Mayner]

Has anyone a photograph of a CIE brake van stove? 

We are planning to add a detailed interior, complete with brake wheel, benches and stove, but haven't a photo of a stove.

I didn't think of the interior when I last visited Cultra or measured up a 30T van at Gort many moons ago.

[DiveController]

Maybe someone with access to Cultra might oblige?

[jhb171achill]

There’s a CIE van at Whitehead, but I’m not sure if it still has a stove..... anyone?

Plus the NCC one at Downpatrick?

[Galteemore]

My dad has one in the back garden....will see what I can do ! 

[WRENNEIRE]

"Larceny of a Stove from CIE Brake Van"
This was the last crime on my desk before I retired Galtee and I would love to solve it before I depart from Platform 1
So could I have your dads address please, and has anyone a lend of a trailer?

[Galteemore]

Sorry Dave - it fell off the back of a lorry - know how it is ...anyway you wouldn’t need a trailer unless you’re driving one of these....

[Broithe]

10 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

"Larceny of a Stove from CIE Brake Van"

Sometimes, stolen goods really are too hot to handle.

[murrayec]

12 hours ago, Mayner said:

Has anyone a photograph of a CIE brake van stove? 

We are planning to add a detailed interior, complete with brake wheel, benches and stove, but haven't a photo of a stove.

I didn't think of the interior when I last visited Cultra or measured up a 30T van at Gort many moons ago.

@Mayner

Here are a few of my photos from Cultra, no stove in it but the ash pan & fuel store is still there;-

Eoin

 

[minister_for_hardship]

Seek and ye shall find.

CIE version is identical apart from 'CIE' on firehole door.

Edited July 8, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[jhb171achill]

A CIE van but a GSWR stove; on the face of it a mismatch, but as can be seen the railway companies often used outside contractors to buy stoves, just like with signalling components. Therefore, especially in 00 scale, there's no reason to think that a CIE one was substantially - if at all - different. Certainly, any I recall were like that.

This level of detail makes this van an absolute must! Maybe increase my order to four or five!

For those interested, or as nerd-like obsessed as me, like much in Cultra the exterior livery is wrong in many ways!

45 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

"Larceny of a Stove from CIE Brake Van"
This was the last crime on my desk before I retired Galtee and I would love to solve it before I depart from Platform 1
So could I have your dads address please, and has anyone a lend of a trailer?

Do you still pay a decent rate for informers?

Edited July 8, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Garfield]

BR brake vans had stoves of a similar size:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_railway_brake_van#/media/File:Brake_van_(interior)_(9131593638).jpg

Quite small - just about enough room on top to plonk a billycan on.

You'd need to have those wee stoves glowing red in order to heat the compartment on a cold night, and it would all be in vain anyway as the wind would start whistling in between the planking once underway. Shoving bits of newspaper into the gaps would've kept the guard almost as busy as performing his braking duties...

[minister_for_hardship]

CIE and a bell symbol, probably a makers trade mark.

[jhb171achill]

I recall a story told to me over thirty years ago by a friend in the business of apprehending people "doing stuff"; as a trainee apprehender, he was part of a crew called to the North Wall goods yard where they caught red-handed some young gentlemen helping themselves to colour TVs in a container on a railway wagon! The gentlemen concerned ended up being invited by the State to spend a while with free bed and board.....

[jhb171achill]

And another story, from when I worked on the Festiniog Railway as a summer job when I was 17 (so, ten years ago).

I was in the PW Dept., (following Senior's footsteps!) and one of the supervisors was a retired British Army veteran, who was as mad as a bag of frogs. He told the story that one time he was out on army "exercises" in the Scottish mountains in winter, and they had to "hole up" overnight when a vicious snowstorm came out of nowhere. They walked along a railway line and found a PW hut with one of these stoves in it.

They got the fire lit, but our hero decided to play a trick on his colleagues. As they huddled round the fire inside it, he went outside and dropped several bangers down the chimney.

B A N G ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

The cast-iron stove split into three pieces, dousing three trainee Paras with hot bits of burning wood and setting fire to the sleeper floor.

The three inside said some rude words to him as a result......... 

 

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Remember these bad boys from my days keeping the country safe from foreign invaders
I think we were supposed to throw red hot turf at them
The Pot Belly Stove!

 

[jhb171achill]

That firm, Gleeson & O'Dea, named on the stove above was the family business of the renowned railway photographer, James P O'Dea, whose excellent collection resides in the National Library.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gleeson_O'Dea_%26_Co._Ltd._No._21-22,_Christchurch_Place,_Dublin_City,_Co._Dublin._(27648328816).jpg

[murrayec]

2 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

The Pot Belly Stove!

I used one of those in my old workshop, when it was up and running proper one could not stand with in 6ft of it without ones pants catching fire!

Eoin

[Garfield]

7 minutes ago, murrayec said:

I used one of those in my old workshop, when it was up and running proper one could not stand with in 6ft of it without ones pants catching fire!

Eoin

Probably best to stop washing your pants with kerosene, Eoin.

[Broithe]

11 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

And another story, from when I worked on the Festiniog Railway as a summer job when I was 17 (so, ten years ago).

I was in the PW Dept., (following Senior's footsteps!) and one of the supervisors was a retired British Army veteran, who was as mad as a bag of frogs. He told the story that one time he was out on army "exercises" in the Scottish mountains in winter, and they had to "hole up" overnight when a vicious snowstorm came out of nowhere. They walked along a railway line and found a PW hut with one of these stoves in it.

They got the fire lit, but our hero decided to play a trick on his colleagues. As they huddled round the fire inside it, he went outside and dropped several bangers down the chimney.

B A N G ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

The cast-iron stove split into three pieces, dousing three trainee Paras with hot bits of burning wood and setting fire to the sleeper floor.

The three inside said some rude words to him as a result......... 

I went to a lot of schools, for logistical reasons - they were all madhouses, but in different ways.

One was in Brigg, just south of the Humber Bridge.

We had a two-hour art class every week, in a derelict shed across the road from the main school buildings.

In the middle of the floor was a stove, which we normally huddled round in an attempt to avoid hypothermia.

This was 1972, before the days when giant fireworks were widely available, but one of the lads had managed to procure a banger a  bit bigger than a milk bottle.

The banger was shoved into the stove as the art master, a decent bloke, came across the road.

He must have known something was going on, as we were all scattered around the far edges of the shed, as though we were waiting for the girls at a dance.

Two hours we sat there, waiting for the explosion, but nothing happened. 

Nothing.

It must have just burned away slowly...