Rosslare to become a container port?

[Wexford70]

Saw this as a proposed plan for the Rosslare Port.

CIE in competition with Waterford Port and Dublin Port?

Reason to believe the Rosslare Waterford Line will be revitalised?

 

[Garfield]

Another round of investment on the back of that, too:

https://wexfordtoday.com/2020/07/09/more-investment-in-rosslare-harbour/?fbclid=IwAR0E7K5gaEZI3MdDESh9qWoPMXNsmC5dIC7py8CtfAThRQ94E_H9cigEJBE

[StevieB]

It has the potential to provide valuable extra business for the railway, assuming no-one improves the roads,

Stephen

[Wexford70]

15 minutes ago, StevieB said:

It has the potential to provide valuable extra business for the railway, assuming no-one improves the roads,

Stephen

That's coming with the Oilgate bypass due to start soon whenever they decide which route will do the most damage for least cost.

Bye bye Piercestown

 

https://wexfordtoday.com/2020/06/29/council-seeks-views-on-oilgate-to-rosslare-bypass/

[Edo]

34 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Saw this as a proposed plan for the Rosslare Port.

CIE in competition with Waterford Port and Dublin Port?

Reason to believe the Rosslare Waterford Line will be revitalised?

 

That would be great for Rosslare. I last passed thru the summer before last on our way to France ( due to go thru this year but for the Covid) ....it was sad to see how run down the place was .....

Interesting to see the container angle...

Cork Harbour is also spending squillions on a new deepwater container terminal...admittedly without a raillink in Ringaskiddy - The Tivoli docks are up for gentifrication....

As regards the Rosslare - Waterford link - unless there is a radical change in transport policy and the full environmental cost of road transport is charged to the hauliers and consumers....i still thinks its future is in bicycles.....

 

[Wexford70]

19 minutes ago, Edo said:

 

As regards the Rosslare - Waterford link - unless there is a radical change in transport policy and the full environmental cost of road transport is charged to the hauliers and consumers....i still thinks its future is in bicycles.....

 

Depends on the Greens and whether they will value the rail network and maintain for future generations. 

[Edo]

25 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Depends on the Greens and whether they will value the rail network and maintain for future generations. 

Ah I wouldn't lay it all on the Poor Greens to be fair - they are probably the biggest supporters of rail and public transport on the political spectrum here - but , in these unprecedented times , they have other priorities than a sleeping railway line thru a low population area of the country whose last justification for existence disappeared 15 years ago........there are 2 other larger parties in the government too....

It really comes back to us , the people  - the way we have chosen to live - outside of the large urban areas....is not conducive to the existence of a large sprawling rail network serving passengers and freight into every hamlet in the state - that was the 19th century......maybe we 'll decide or be forced to change our freewheeling road based 20th century lifestyle and rail might come back into play....doubt it....but it might....

Edited July 24, 2020 by Edo

[flange lubricator]

The day after they get the money and approval for that they will remove the rail link. If it was a realistic proposition the rail would go all the way to the quayside so you could unload straight from the ship onto the train.  The prospect of rail traffic would be doomed from the get go , its only included to boost the plans green credentials and nothing else .

Edited July 24, 2020 by flange lubricator

[burnthebox]

1 hour ago, Wexford70 said:

 

 

Is this not something to do with the proposed plans talked about about 2/3 years ago of a connection with Rosslare & Santander, it would be mega if it gets sorted,

BTB

[Edo]

2 minutes ago, burnthebox said:

Is this not something to do with the proposed plans talked about about 2/3 years ago of a connection with Rosslare & Santander, it would be mega if it gets sorted,

BTB

Well Brittany Ferries moved their Cork to Santander over to Rosslare to Bilbao and Roscoff this year plus they have just announced a once a week Rosslare to Cherbourg freight service to start next year too....great news for the port after Irish Ferries pulling the french service last year - on the other hand its all Ro/Ro so not doing much for the Rail link.

[Noel]

Good to see this. Might increase traffic on the Limerick Waterford line, and it would be wonderful if liner traffic routed via the Barrow bridge saving that line. 

 

[Joe Keegan]

The remains of the trackbed , about 5’ under the hardcore . 
This photograph was taken in May 2020

[K801]

would there be a new passenger train station?

[Noel]

10 minutes ago, K801 said:

would there be a new passenger train station?

There is a station already an olympic middle distance walk away from the ferry quay. Years ago there was joined up thinking with platforms on quays (eg Rosslare and the Carlisle pier)

[Edo]

41 minutes ago, K801 said:

would there be a new passenger train station?

Would there be any need for it?

Purely asking the question because 99% of traffic on the Boats drives on and drives off now

Even 20 years ago - I had  this mad idea to go inter railing around Northern France in late October for a couple of weeks (great idea in retrospect - travelled a whole load of rural lines that are gone now) - I took the train from Dublin Connolly to Rosslare and then the boat to France - even then - I was probably one of 5 people who were left on the train by the time we crawled into Rosslare Harbour........the days of foot passengers taking the boat were dying ........Ryanair has taken all that traffic and it ain't coming back any time soon..

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Edo

[StevieB]

To return to this topic, this has probably got a lot to do with Brexit. A direct service between northern France and Rosslare is on the cards, cutting out the trek through UK. The additional journey time is preferable to the additional paperwork from 1st January 2021.
 

Stephen

[Broithe]

As someone who lives a couple of miles from the M6 when I'm on the Big Island, the prospect of regularly using the 'Land Bridge' would fill me with horror - the continual roadworks and congestion are bad enough when you don't have time constraints, it must be very frustrating to those with deadlines and driver hours to consider.

I was a regular foot passenger from Holyhead, until about 2007, when it just became too difficult, due largely to the trains on the Big Island - journeys just took longer and longer and it ceased to be a viable route.

My Heuston/Ballybrophy section was reliable and got slowly faster, but the Stafford Holyhead section grew from two to nearly six hours...

And trying to buy the ticket in a UK station was not a task for the fainthearted. For one journey I actually had a hand-written ticket - amazingly, nobody queried it. The computer had refused to believe it existed and it took me a lot of phone calls to get them to do it - "Listen, I'm trying to give you money for a piece of cardboard, just so I can get on a train that's going there anyway!"

[jhb171achill]

Regrettably, I feel that this is what will happen, or probably already is.

The Greens are a junior partner in government. The anti-railway credentials of FFG, the National Transport Authority, AND the management of Irish Rail are, according to people I know who are "in the know" within it, as VEHEMENTLY anti-rail as the Stormont government and the UTA were in the 1950s.

I wish I could say otherwise, as I can't be bothered with negativity for the sake of it; we get this type of whinging on various message boards all the time - but:

1.  The closer the greens get to reopening ANY railway, the quicker they'll turn it over to a greenway.

2.  Tracks lifted as soon as they can be.

3.  Infrastructure placed in the way of reopening, e.g. maybe blocking Rossbrien crossing in Limerick to stymie a Foynes line, building a customs declaration office block slap-bang in the middle of the only place where sidings could be put at Rosslare, cutting off access by rail to ports in Cork and Waterford, and possibly shrinking the North Wall facility further.

4.  An announcement that rail freight is a priority, with nothing EVER done. Rehash it each election time, getting some gombeen-man local TD down in Ballygobackwards to cut a tape somewhere.

5.  Pat the Greens on the head and tell them that they can include the words "substantial funding for rail!" in their next manifesto, and claim credit for the modernisation expenditure already approved for the odd bridge replacement.

6.  Greenways....QUICK! Before the EU notices that we actually have any railways. Plus, sure it's healthy, all that lime green lycra.

7.  Now, we need MORE motorways! More! More!

Rant over.

[NIR]

@BroitheBoat trains are a thing of the past. Not the most  comfortable of journeys but they had their own charm. Dropping the window and looking up at the stars from the middle of nowhere at 4am was pretty magical when you were 10.

Edited December 11, 2020 by NIR

[David Holman]

Living as I do in Kent, find it extraordinary that trucking firms are happy to drive across England and Wales, rather than ferry goods straight to Ireland. It's the same for stuff that goes to the north of England and Scotland, rather than use ports up there. The result is that Kent is braced to become a lorry park from January, with even schools told to expect disruption because of traffic problems.

 Yet we have a rail tunnel and container trains could significantly reduce long distance lorry trips everywhere. So while it would be great for the local economy of Rosslare - and a post Brexit container port may well be essential if lorry freight through England and Wales becomes less practical - surely the sensible approach would be to plan for more rail based container traffic? But then, when has politics ever been sensible?!

 Nevertheless, the prospect of a boom in loco hauled freight is certainly attractive to most of us ferro-equinologists, methinks!

[Galteemore]

7 hours ago, NIR said:

Boat trains are a thing of the past. Not the most  comfortable of journeys but they had their own charm. Dropping the window and looking up at the stars from the middle of nowhere at 4am was pretty magical when you were 10.

Oh they were great ! There was an odd little working in the early 90s (once a week IIRC) which ran direct from Newcastle upon Tyne to Stranraer via Edinburgh and Glasgow Central. I used to get on it early am in Edinburgh - dawn train to home with a cup of tea in hand  - hard to beat! It even had a name in the timetable - ‘Capitals United’ or some such 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Galteemore

[DoctorPan]

9 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

The anti-railway credentials of the National Transport Authority, AND the management of Irish Rail are, according to people I know who are "in the know" within it, as VEHEMENTLY anti-rail as the Stormont government and the UTA were in the 1950s.

 

It's this part that I object to.

Funnily enough from my side of things, it's the direct opposite. NTA are quite happy to promote rail projects, it's just a matter of funding, likewise with IR mangement. It was only this year that Jim Meade had a talk with the IRRS where it was announced that it was cheaper to move freight by rail than road. What I've found is that some people wish for the old days of freight but when management wants to take steps forward to modernise the system, and shoot down dreams, they get labelled as anti-rail. 

 

Look at the massive DART Expansion design tenders awarded and the planning applications going in for the different stages and the invites for expressions of interest for DART Underground. If these projects are seen as anti rail as Stormont in the 50s, I would love to see what those people would consider pro railway as it would keep me in a job for a long time.

[jhb171achill]

53 minutes ago, DoctorPan said:

It's this part that I object to.

Funnily enough from my side of things, it's the direct opposite. NTA are quite happy to promote rail projects, it's just a matter of funding, likewise with IR mangement. It was only this year that Jim Meade had a talk with the IRRS where it was announced that it was cheaper to move freight by rail than road. What I've found is that some people wish for the old days of freight but when management wants to take steps forward to modernise the system, and shoot down dreams, they get labelled as anti-rail. 

 

Look at the massive DART Expansion design tenders awarded and the planning applications going in for the different stages and the invites for expressions of interest for DART Underground. If these projects are seen as anti rail as Stormont in the 50s, I would love to see what those people would consider pro railway as it would keep me in a job for a long time.

My own comments are based on what has come from the "horse's mouth", so to speak, and thus I cannot comment further. Suffice to say, I was party to the contents of certain discussions from "within".

While I personally may well fir into the mound of "yearning" for the railway of the past, this applies only to my enthusiast leanings. Obviously, modernisation is essential. Given the latest figures on our economy, it is clear that with government commitment - IF there was sufficient commitment - they might find funding for at least some of the various schemes that have been proposed in recent years by people in the haulage world, as opposed to the certainly impractical ideas of many others.

Jim Meade is a good, professional, practical railwayman, but has to work within the constraints he has from above.

 

 

[skinner75]

With the environmental target/goal that Ireland has to try to reach to avoid penalties, it would make sense to try to get freight on to rail where possible. Trucking a container to a hub, then letting the train take a load at once to the port would reduce the CO2 emissions per km. 

Who knows if the government will see this, or act upon it, but you would like to think that they would

[jhb171achill]

Indeed - here’s hoping!

[Mike 84C]

I wonder what the weight and range of battery powered 40/44tonne trucks will be by 2050?  Also how much field work an electric tractor will do? All things I'm sure our politicos will  have considered and planned for when declaring a carbon free future by 2050.  Me? long gone.

[skinner75]

10 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

I wonder what the weight and range of battery powered 40/44tonne trucks will be by 2050?  Also how much field work an electric tractor will do? All things I'm sure our politicos will  have considered and planned for when declaring a carbon free future by 2050.  Me? long gone.

A few thousand miles/kms at the very least by 2050, judging on Tesla's figures of 460~770 miles for their 'Semi' truck in 2022. Either way, more than enough to deliver to anywhere in Ireland

https://www.ccjdigital.com/tesla-long-range-battery-semi-truck/

 

[Noel]

34 minutes ago, skinner75 said:

A few thousand miles/kms at the very least by 2050, judging on Tesla's figures of 460~770 miles for their 'Semi' truck in 2022. Either way, more than enough to deliver to anywhere in Ireland

https://www.ccjdigital.com/tesla-long-range-battery-semi-truck/

 

Despite Tesla's HGV, the future of HGVs seems more likely to be HFCEV (Hydrogen Fuel Cell) HGVs rather than BEV (battery). Its just physics, a battery big enough to haul a HGV load say 480km is likely to be heavier than the actual load, rather inefficient, energy wasted transporting energy store. HFCEVs missed the boat as regards cars (ie personal mobility transport) and there is zero fuelling infrastructure, but HFCEV HGVs could refuel in their own depot yards rather than public filling stations. In Germany they have been running trials with pantographs like the Luas for HGVs on autobahns. Rail really lends itself to electrification, we won't see big diesels lasting for decades, their CO2 foot print is off the richter scale!

Edited December 11, 2020 by Noel

[skinner75]

I've seen the German test system of the pantograph system for charging electric hgv trucks, and it looks interesting alright. Certainly for the longer distances required in Europe.

Hydrogen cell tech most definitely will play a part, and the tech will only get better and better as it is further developed.

Who knows what battery tech improvement will be made in the coming years. Look at the difference li-pol made in weight saving versus lead-acid batteries, and also the ability to run the battery right down without harming the battery. Future development in battery tech could see size and weight decrease, and capacity increase, where you could have a battery the size of a standard petrol cars battery giving the range of a current EV cars battery pack.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the decades to come!

[Noel]

9 hours ago, skinner75 said:

I've seen the German test system of the pantograph system for charging electric hgv trucks, and it looks interesting alright. Certainly for the longer distances required in Europe.

Hydrogen cell tech most definitely will play a part, and the tech will only get better and better as it is further developed.

Who knows what battery tech improvement will be made in the coming years. Look at the difference li-pol made in weight saving versus lead-acid batteries, and also the ability to run the battery right down without harming the battery. Future development in battery tech could see size and weight decrease, and capacity increase, where you could have a battery the size of a standard petrol cars battery giving the range of a current EV cars battery pack.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the decades to come!

Yes well battery prices continue to fall exponentially rapidly approaching $100/kWh, and battery density tippled in the past 10 years now over 300Wh/kg and ever improving but unlikely to every be as small as a suitcase for a car. 15 years ago Hydrogen seemed the future, then Tesla came along and disrupted the entire auto industry and changed the world. The legacy manufacturers are still playing catchup. Dieselgate ironically may have been the best thing that ever happened for climate action as VW\VAG now lead the legacy's in a strategic switch to BEVs from fossil cars, about face GM, Ford, Daimler who are now rushing to catch up. Interesting times ahead, especially the next 5 years.

[skinner75]

My dad recently got a Kia E-Niro, and loves it. It's got a range of 450km on eco mode, which he is more than happy with the performance of. He's always worked on his cars in the past, but as he is 73 now, he is all for the simplicity of the electric car - very little to service on them bar consumables.

Have you seen the Citroen Ami? In France they can be driven without a license, and are aimed at city usage, and are most likely going to be used as 'rentals' like the city bike schemes.