Jumbo Tar Wagons

[Vlak]

Something which seems to, perhaps, have been overlooked in terms of freight are the Jumbo Tar Wagons. These were 2-Axle wagons which were used for the conveyance of Bitumen to both Sligo (and possibly Galway?) for Cold Chon. They were loaded in Alexander Road at their Tar Terminal and usually added to liner trains for the run west. Based on what little information I can gather the traffic didn’t really amount to much more than 3-6 wagons per train at a time. The traffic flow seems to have ended around 2001/2, although the bogie wagons (which contained ISO Bitumen containers which were used to Mallow for Council use) seems to have lasted into until 2003/4. 

It has been challenging to find photographs of these wagons in detail, other than a few photos with them in the background, but they appear to have been constructed / modified by CIE using Bitumen tanks mounted on short wheelbase 20ft flats (same as the Cement Bubbles it would seem) with the same tank anchors as was the case for most fuel oil & latterly Esso Oil wagons. Two tank designs appear to have been in use, one with a flat end and another with a more rounded end with ribs.

I attach two screen shots taken from the video linked below which provides a little more detail (hope the author of the video doesn’t mind!); it would seem that unique to tank wagons here the ladders were positioned at the end of the tank rather than in the middle. I would also hazard a guess the reason they gained the name ‘Jumbo’ was due to their larger more bulky tank design in comparison to the oil tanks to account for the lagging. 
 

Video of a typical formation for Jumbo Tar Tanks: 

 

Further discussion / information or even photos & drawings welcomed. 

[flange lubricator]

Found this on in Wexford County Council Yard in Ballycullane in 2004

[popeye]

Never seen these before, 

and Molasses tanks are rare too.

I often wondered what was Molasses used for?

[murphaph]

Animal feed maybe?

[WRENNEIRE]

Drogheda I think

 

[flange lubricator]

Dont think that the Same Wagon Wrenneire the jumbo wagons were insulated which made them look big .

Edited January 19, 2021 by flange lubricator

[Mayner]

I did not realise that IE used the "Tar Wagons" during the 1990s as tar traffic was transported in ISO tank containers after CIE went over to Liner Train operation during the late 70s.

There is a photo feature on private sidings in the February 2019 Journal which includes photos of operations at a number of sidings which handles tar traffic including Sligo Quay, Cahir Abbey Siding, Webbs Mill (Mallow) & Lixnaw.

The "Jumbo" Tar wagons look suspiciously like an insulated version of the re-gauged Charles Roberts tank wagons imported by ESSO Teo from the UK during the late 60s. There is a reasonable photo of one of these wagons at Cahir and a more distant view of a pair at Sligo Quay.

A number of these wagons were stored out of use for many years at the Point Yard after the ending of loose coupled traffic and brought back into use with the re-opening of Sligo Quay during the 1990s, presumably ESSO/Cold Chon were able to negotiate a lower freight rate with IE for using their own wagon than an ISO tank container and IE wagon.

The Heljan or Dapol ESSO type A tank wagons would be a good basis for these wagons though the body would need serious modification, Bachmann appear to produce a model of a 45T BR tar tank wagon which is quite different design and larger than the ESSO Teo Tar Tank wagons.

 

 

Over the fence view of out of use ESSO "Jumbo" Tar Wagon at North Wall Point Yard c. 1982-3. I was more interested in the Mex tank wagon at the time.

A number of the Jumbo tank wagons were stored/dumped in the Dardanelles Yard by the Sheriff St level crossing until the yard was cleared out c2002

[fishplate7]

On 18/1/2021 at 1:42 PM, Vlak said:

Something which seems to, perhaps, have been overlooked in terms of freight are the Jumbo Tar Wagons. These were 2-Axle wagons which were used for the conveyance of Bitumen to both Sligo (and possibly Galway?) for Cold Chon. They were loaded in Alexander Road at their Tar Terminal and usually added to liner trains for the run west. Based on what little information I can gather the traffic didn’t really amount to much more than 3-6 wagons per train at a time. The traffic flow seems to have ended around 2001/2, although the bogie wagons (which contained ISO Bitumen containers which were used to Mallow for Council use) seems to have lasted into until 2003/4. 

It has been challenging to find photographs of these wagons in detail, other than a few photos with them in the background, but they appear to have been constructed / modified by CIE using Bitumen tanks mounted on short wheelbase 20ft flats (same as the Cement Bubbles it would seem) with the same tank anchors as was the case for most fuel oil & latterly Esso Oil wagons. Two tank designs appear to have been in use, one with a flat end and another with a more rounded end with ribs.

I attach two screen shots taken from the video linked below which provides a little more detail (hope the author of the video doesn’t mind!); it would seem that unique to tank wagons here the ladders were positioned at the end of the tank rather than in the middle. I would also hazard a guess the reason they gained the name ‘Jumbo’ was due to their larger more bulky tank design in comparison to the oil tanks to account for the lagging. 
 

Video of a typical formation for Jumbo Tar Tanks: 

 

Further discussion / information or even photos & drawings welcomed. 

 

On 18/1/2021 at 1:42 PM, Vlak said:

Something which seems to, perhaps, have been overlooked in terms of freight are the Jumbo Tar Wagons. These were 2-Axle wagons which were used for the conveyance of Bitumen to both Sligo (and possibly Galway?) for Cold Chon. They were loaded in Alexander Road at their Tar Terminal and usually added to liner trains for the run west. Based on what little information I can gather the traffic didn’t really amount to much more than 3-6 wagons per train at a time. The traffic flow seems to have ended around 2001/2, although the bogie wagons (which contained ISO Bitumen containers which were used to Mallow for Council use) seems to have lasted into until 2003/4. 

It has been challenging to find photographs of these wagons in detail, other than a few photos with them in the background, but they appear to have been constructed / modified by CIE using Bitumen tanks mounted on short wheelbase 20ft flats (same as the Cement Bubbles it would seem) with the same tank anchors as was the case for most fuel oil & latterly Esso Oil wagons. Two tank designs appear to have been in use, one with a flat end and another with a more rounded end with ribs.

I attach two screen shots taken from the video linked below which provides a little more detail (hope the author of the video doesn’t mind!); it would seem that unique to tank wagons here the ladders were positioned at the end of the tank rather than in the middle. I would also hazard a guess the reason they gained the name ‘Jumbo’ was due to their larger more bulky tank design in comparison to the oil tanks to account for the lagging. 
 

Video of a typical formation for Jumbo Tar Tanks: 

 

Further discussion / information or even photos & drawings welcomed. 

Hi Vlak. My video! Yep, no problem at all using it. That's what they are there for! Interesting topic too! Cheers. Eamonn

[fishplate7]

Here is another example of the same wagon. Scroll to 8.05 on the video. 

 

[Robert Shrives]

https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/bachmann-wagons/bachmann-tank-wagons/bachmann-37-560-45-

This looks about right but not yet at market 

Robert 

[murphaph]

Did they in fact go to Galway or just Sligo?

[Robert Shrives]

Sligo  (Cold Chon )- upto 2002 when it closed. Was a main point but pictures do show individual wagons on other lines - County road repair depots .  Cannot find a pic straight away in books to hand internet trawling might gain something.

 

[Mayner]

 

The ESSO Teo Bitumen tank wagons appear to have been re-gauged from ESSO 22T Bitumen  wagons built in the late 1950s rather than the 45GLW type like the Bachmann model which would have been too heavy to run in Ireland

There is a good selection of photos on ESSO 22T Bitumen Tank Wagons in their original condition in

 https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essobitumenvb.

Many of the UK tanks were re-built with revised running gear and tank mounting.

Railborne bitumen traffic to Cold Chon Sligo was a short lived 90s revival, IE discontinued bitumen traffic by individual wagon load during the mid 1970s transporting the traffic in ISO containers with road transfer to distributors such as Cold Chon, Irish Tar and Bitumen and Council Depots.

Esso Teo appears to have stored its relatively modern (by Irish standards) 22T Bitumen tankers which appear to have been re-used when the Sligo quayside siding was re-opened during the 1990s.

Oranmore was the rail head for Bitumen, Oil and Scrap Metal traffic in the Galway area until the sidings were disconnected in the late 70s, bitumen and scrap transported by Liner Train in ISO containers with a road transfer from Galway, ESSO oil traffic apparently transferring to coastal shipping.

Oranmore would have been interesting in wagon load days Chold Chon used a Scammell Road road tractor on rail wheels as a year shunter.

 

[Robert Shrives]

John,

What took me to the 45t version was the end ladder arrangement.  But I can make out from the stills is that one wagon, like the landed tank has a conical end the others look more domed but all have the twin fire tubes and top vent. An interesting wagon . A pic of a bitumen ISO  tank would be good to see. 

Thanks for the potted history of the freight flow, better than I could put it 

Robert 

[Mayner]

Traditionally Tar/Bitumen was transported in 45gal drums in open wagon on the Irish Railway system with CIE 1st introducing tank wagons for tar traffic in the 1950s.

The Florencecourt and Glenfarne on the SLNCR appear to have the railheads for the local County Council depots. In most photos of Glenfarne the loading bank is literally covered in tar barrels, while there is a cut of 4 opens with tar traffic awaiting unloading in a photo of Florencecourt.

A series of County Council & CIE depots were opened in the early 1960s to handle tar traffic. Some of the Council depots such as Cahir (Abbey Siding) & Lixnaw were served by private siding while other depots were in existing CIE goods yards Ballingarne and Tralee Rock Street.

There is an interesting sequence of photos of the Tralee-Listowel goods setting out a CIE tank wagon, including the loco and train propelling the wagon along the main line from Lixnaw Station to the County County Siding.

In the 1950s CIE bought several batches of Tar Tank wagons from Charles Roberts these were similar in appearance to the Bachmann 14T Anchor Mounted Tank Wagons but with an insulated tank barrel https://www.bachmann.co.uk/product/14t-class-a-anchor-mounted-tank-wagon-'national-benzole'/38-778. These wagons seem to have been based on a standard RCH design complete with independent either side brakes unusual in Ireland but standard practice for private Owner Mineral and Tank wagons on the UK Mainland.

CIE started to build Tar Tank wagons during the early 60s on a standard Irish underframe with Irish style brake gear but an anchor mounted barrel similar to the Charles Roberts wagons.

I think the "Jumbo" wagons may have been modified ESSO 22T Bitumen Tankers the ladders moved to the ends because of increased thickness of insulation.

Wagon 997 in the late 1970s IRRS Journal photo appears to be a TSO34A wagon with domed ends and original tank mounts as in https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essobitumenvb

The ladder position on the wagons in the Sligo Deepwater Quay 1995 photo in the same journal is unclear.

The 22.5ton axleload of 45GLW UK tank wagons would have substantially exceeded CIE axleload limits, the Sligo Deepwater branch was re-laid to

 

23826 is an out of use CIE built wagon, not sure of the location although I took the photo one of the few remaining loose coupled wagons that survived into the 80s.

The ISO Bitumen Containers were a standard insulated framed containers similar to https://www.meeberg.com/en/new-products/bitumen/20-ft-bitumentank/.

Its possible the containers were privately owned or supplied by CIE.

The containers were allover black with panels in the bracing bays at one end with product details. From memory the details were "Cationic Road Emulsion and Cut Back Bitumen" in large black lettering on a yellow or orange background above smaller orange or white lettering on black panels possibly with supplier details.

As a rule is that from the mid-1950s to the end of loose coupled working in the late 70s bitumen was transported in individual wagons loads (often 1 wagon!) to private sidings  and CIE goods yards in Charles Roberts built wagons similar to The Bachmann 14T anchor mounted tank wagon or CIE built wagons. 

ESSO appears to have imported a small number of 22T Bitumen tank wagons when it modernised its wagon fleet in the late 60s, the ESSO 22T wagons appear to have run as individual wagons loads to destinations including Cahir on the Waterford-Limerick line in addition to the North Wall Sligo Oil trains.

Bitumen Traffic by individual wagons load appears to have ceased in 78 with the closure of rail served depots such as Cahir, Ferns, Lispole, Oranmore and Sligo Deepwater Quay.

Wagon load traffic to Cold Chon at Sligo Deepwater Quay was revised in the mid 1990s but may have ceased by 1999 and the Deep Water Quay line lifted in 2002.

Although intended to operate as de-mountable the Bitumen containers seem to have been treated as wagons both loading and discharging on the rail, they usually seem to have been mounted on 20' skeletal flats, with several seemingly dumped for many years in the Dardanelles Sidings before the yard was cleared out in the early 2000. An interesting place but difficult to take a decent photo.

 

Two bitumen containers just about visible on 4w flats in the Dardanelles Sidings during the late 90s. At the time I was more interested in 113 an early 160s Texaco Class A tank wagon, the original Caltex lettering had bled through after the wagon was re-branded. A rake of these wagons was used on the North Wall Inchacore fuel oil train until replaced with CIE stores wagons in the late 70s possibly the last loose coupled good train in the Dublin area.

[Galteemore]

John - quite right re Glenfarne and Florencecourt. This was especially so during the summer I think. Any ideas where such traffic may have originated ? Am assuming it was from Dublin/Belfast and carried in GN/CIE wagons with no transshipment, but will be hunting out that Florencecourt photo. I have a wagon load of drums for Rosses Point - much as I’d like to use an SLNC wagon for that it strikes me as unlikely and I should probably provide a CIE open.

[airfixfan]

The County Donegal csrried oil in tank wagons from the port in Derry to the fishing boats at Killybegs in particular.

Edited January 21, 2021 by airfixfan

[Mayner]

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

John - quite right re Glenfarne and Florencecourt. This was especially so during the summer I think. Any ideas where such traffic may have originated ? Am assuming it was from Dublin/Belfast and carried in GN/CIE wagons with no transshipment, but will be hunting out that Florencecourt photo. I have a wagon load of drums for Rosses Point - much as I’d like to use an SLNC wagon for that it strikes me as unlikely and I should probably provide a CIE open.

Most likely in GNR wagons from Dublin, Belfast or possibly Derry Port's as Airfixfan pointed out the CDJR tank wagons were used to transport oil traffic from Derry to Killybegs and other points on the system. 

Its possible tar traffic for Glenfarne was imported through Dublin Port and routed via Dundalk and Enniskillen rather than via Mullingar. The SLNCR & the GNR competed seriously with the GSR and CIE for traffic from the Dublin and the East Coast to Sligo. 

Its just about possible that a wagon load of tar or bagged cement might arrive in Rosses Point in a GN wagon having travelled under customs bond through County Fermanagh

[TimO]

There was also a tar/ bitumen unloading facility in the Conniberry sidings in Portlaoise. The Laois County Council tar lorries used to reverse into the building below rail level to be filled.  The building still exists. It was certainly used in the 70’s and there were regular fires, presumably from leaking bitumen. Does anyone know how the heating coils were kept warm in traffic or were they only connected in the depots?

[dave182]

Just revisiting this topic, as I've recently got my hands on IRRS Journal 198 thanks to Iarnrod of this parish. The article on Private Sidings by Ciarán Cooney features some great photos of bitumen wagons at Lixnaw, Quartertown and ColdChon Sligo and Galway. 

I'm looking for information about the unloading of bitumen at the Sligo Cold Chon depot at the end of Deepwater Quay. Did the line run into the Cold Chon premises, or was there some way of unloading the bitumen on the quayside? 

I've reviewed historical maps but they are very inconclusive. 

The Cahir Abbey siding is interesting too. Again, any information on the white building pictured would be very helpful. Did it have bitumen tanks inside and heating equipment? How was the rail tank unloaded, and how were the council trucks loaded?

[The Derry Road]

On 18/1/2021 at 2:31 PM, popeye said:

Never seen these before, 

and Molasses tanks are rare too.

I often wondered what was Molasses used for?

 here is one i made up some years ago TDR