minister_for_hardship Posted May 7, 2015 Author Posted May 7, 2015 In the early 1980s, when the short-lived De Lorean car plant near Dunmurry was in operation, there was a proposal to build a siding into it and take the cars to Belfast Port via another siding off the Larne line. This would have ended up being somewhere near the Fortwilliam roundabout, very probably. The acquisition of half a dozen ex-CIE "C" class locomotives was partly with this possibility in mind. Imagine that on a Belfast 1980s based layout.... Sorry, couldn't resist... Quote
Broithe Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 In the early 1980s, when the short-lived De Lorean car plant near Dunmurry was in operation, there was a proposal to build a siding into it and take the cars to Belfast Port via another siding off the Larne line. This would have ended up being somewhere near the Fortwilliam roundabout, very probably. The acquisition of half a dozen ex-CIE "C" class locomotives was partly with this possibility in mind. Imagine that on a Belfast 1980s based layout.... If only there was some way that we could go back in time....... Quote
airfixfan Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 There were about 6 miles of dual gauge track in Derry with mixed gauge trains as well. Dual gauge track in Larne and Ballymena as well. Quote
jhb171achill Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 If NIR had been more pro-freight, there could have at one time been the possibility of - - De Lorean Dunmurry to Belfast. - Fertiliser, Guinness and cement Dundalk - Derry - same, Dundalk - Adelaide - Containers, North Wall - Portadown - Adelaide - Derry One can but dream. NIR would need its half dozen C's, maybe more than three 071s, and probably nowadays a few scond hand 141s..... Quote
airfixfan Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 The 6 C class GMs were bought by NIR for the proposed lignite traffic from near Ballymoney to the power stations at Kilroot and possibly Ballylumford. This also involved serious plans to reopen the"back line" from Monkstown to Greenisland, which by way has never officially been formally abandoned as a railway to my best knowledge! Quote
Dhu Varren Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 There were about 6 miles of dual gauge track in Derry with mixed gauge trains as well. Dual gauge track in Larne and Ballymena as well. The dual gauge track in Derry was the dock lines of the Londonderry Port & Harbour Commissioners and which connected the NCC and CDR on the South side of the river with the GNR(I) and L&LSR on the North side. The Craigavon Bridge, which was double decked had mixed gauge track on the lower deck, with access via a mixed gauge wagon turntable at each end. The LP&HC had two steam locomotives, which were fitted with drawgear and buffing gear for both 3ft and 5ft 3in gauge stock, so it would have been possible to see a train of mixed gauge stock, albeit with the loco in the middle. Incidently, both locos are still extant, one at Cultra, and No 3 R H Smyth at Whitehead. In the early days of the L&LSR, narrow gauge passenger trains used the dock lines to reach a terminus behind the Guildhall in the city centre, until the Board of Trade stepped in and stopped the practice. Quote
jhb171achill Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Ballymoney lignite would have been yet another, indeed. The "back line" was not abandoned for many years after the last train ran. It is abandoned now; but as I understand no longer ago than maybe 1990-ish! Quote
DiveController Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) There were about 6 miles of dual gauge track in Derry with mixed gauge trains as well. Dual gauge track in Larne and Ballymena as well. EDIT: Didn't see Dhu Varren's post. My question is a moot point! Edited May 7, 2015 by DiveController Brain re-engaged with eyes Quote
GSR 800 Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Multi-gauge lines already exist (though not here). Sorry Harry Could have made a good few bob from that Kev! If you look up the Irish Sea railway tunnel the gauge problem is seen as a very large one.They did not mention multi gauge tracks instead multi gauge trains.Not sure which would be cheaper but I would say the tracks. Quote
airfixfan Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Also mixed gauge track at Strabane and Carnlough as well and even mixed gauge turntables at those 2 locations and Derry. Quote
David Holman Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 Just been re-reading E M Patterson's history of the Clogher Valley Railway, where there is a section on extensions - including the fabled Ulster & Connaught. Seems both the Clogher and Cavan & Leitrim were keen to link up, with the former also interested in extending eastwards to the Bessbrook & Newry tramway, thereby providing a direct link to the coast for Arigna coal. The GN branch to Keady & the south eventually scuppered the coastal link, though they did build a tunnel to enable the 3' gauge line to cross beneath it. Still exists too! Hence, even if the U&C extension to Galway and Clifton had not produced a trans Irish narrow gauge 'mainline' [over 230 miles long!], a C&L/CV/B&N link would have produced the scenario of the first two's engines & rail cars sharing tracks and working with each other's stock. 'Tis a basis for a 7mmNG project I've often pondered - not least because of the variety of modelling it could offer. So far, cannot decide if it would be best in 21mm gauge/7mm scale, or 32mm gauge/10mm[ish] scale. One day... Quote
Mayner Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 Just been re-reading E M Patterson's history of the Clogher Valley Railway, where there is a section on extensions - including the fabled Ulster & Connaught. Seems both the Clogher and Cavan & Leitrim were keen to link up, with the former also interested in extending eastwards to the Bessbrook & Newry tramway, thereby providing a direct link to the coast for Arigna coal. The GN branch to Keady & the south eventually scuppered the coastal link, though they did build a tunnel to enable the 3' gauge line to cross beneath it. Still exists too! Hence, even if the U&C extension to Galway and Clifton had not produced a trans Irish narrow gauge 'mainline' [over 230 miles long!], a C&L/CV/B&N link would have produced the scenario of the first two's engines & rail cars sharing tracks and working with each other's stock. 'Tis a basis for a 7mmNG project I've often pondered - not least because of the variety of modelling it could offer. So far, cannot decide if it would be best in 21mm gauge/7mm scale, or 32mm gauge/10mm[ish] scale. One day... Why not follow Neill Ramseys example modelling the Irish Narrow Gauge on 45mm gauge 15mm scale even runs on LGB track! Quote
jhb171achill Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 Neil Ramsey's stuff is absolutely amazing! Quote
GSR 800 Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 What would have happened if they kept open the Mullingar Athlone line.Harcourt street(as a standard station)and Alberts quay. Also the Derry Road. all of these seem to be very short sighted closes Quote
jhb171achill Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 What would have happened if the Derry Road remained open - 3000 / 4000 class railcars and fewer open stations. Mullingar to Athlone probably just a short cut - Moate would have closed. West Cork - possibly a 2-car 2600 rattling up and fine to Bandon? And Harcourt St could have ended up as a DART terminus..... Maybe one for the "might have been" thread! Such is the imaginative root of some very impressive layouts.... Quote
jhb171achill Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) To add.... Had oil traffic materialised at Bantry, like at Foynes, and this did seem possible at one stage, then two scenarios might have arisen. First, retention of the line purely for that traffic (ie goods only with all intermediate stations closed) or, Ballina style, retention of the line with the same minimal passenger service as well and even sugar beet too for a while. Passenger trains would have been AEC sets for a while, then probably the familiar sight if a 141, bogie and van, up to modern times. Without doubt it would today be a two car 2600. Edited May 14, 2015 by jhb171achill Quote
GSR 800 Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) A T1 class 4-4-2t was proposed in 1915 at Dundalk for the GNR. Supposed to be a superheated(as built) version of the T class with a superheated boiler the same as that of the U class these locos would have had a tractive effort of 17708 lbs.5 were ordered in 1916 but the shortage of material due to the war delayed construction and lead to them being cancelled in 1919. Edited June 13, 2015 by GSR 800 Quote
enniscorthyman Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 I wonder would Mallow-Waterford have survived had the Ballinacourty project had come online sooner.Mallow -Waterford closed in March 1967, While the spur to Ballinacourty to service the Quigley plant came about around 1970. Trains could have run to Mallow via Dungarvan, and perhaps beet trains could have run via Dungarvan as well. Quote
Dhu Varren Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 There was a proposal during World War 2 to regauge the County Donegal Railways line from Strabane to Derry. This was due to the heavy military traffic from Derry destined for places on the GNR like Omagh. Unfortunately the GNR line from Derry crossed the border into Neutral Eire, so this traffic had to be routed via Cookstown and Dungannon, with three changes of direction, a long way round. Due to the cost of upgrading the infrastructure to upgrade the narrow gauge route to standard gauge, the project never happened. Shame really, as the CDR and NCC stations in Derry were almost back to back, and through running would have been possible. A circular route from Belfast to Belfast via Londonderry. Quote
Mayner Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 I wonder would Mallow-Waterford have survived had the Ballinacourty project had come online sooner.Mallow -Waterford closed in March 1967, While the spur to Ballinacourty to service the Quigley plant came about around 1970. Trains could have run to Mallow via Dungarvan, and perhaps beet trains could have run via Dungarvan as well. At one stage the GSWR & F&RHR had plans for a cut-off line between Dunkettle & Fermoy to reduce the overall journey time to Rosslare and the possibility of adding Fermoy to the Cork suburban network. Pfitzer appear to have originally planned a much larger operation at Ballinacourty with quarries at both Bennettsbridge & Lombardstown on the Kerry road supplying dolomite. This would probably resulted in heavier magnesite & oil traffic between Ballinacourty & Cork which would have kept the western end of the line very at least until the 2nd oil crisis hit. Quote
StevieB Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Imagination is a wonderful thing, but just imagine how different things might have been if: 1) The NCC owned Derry to Strabane line had been converted to standard gauge, and 2) Dolomite had been mined at Lombardstown. Stephen Quote
jhb171achill Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 If Ireland had coal mines on a British scale..... 2.10.0's hauling huge coal trains out of Arigna, Coalisland, Deerpark, Wolfhill and perhaps other places..... Today, 201s would doubtless be doing the honours. It could even have resulted in double headed 071 class.... Quote
dave182 Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 When Tara mines came on line, wasn't there a proposal to build a port south of Drogheda with rail connection to export the zinc ore? Quote
GSR 800 Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Yes I heard that,don't think traffic from the mines was sufficient to build it though or something like that,though it could have been funds. Quote
GSR 800 Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Will we ever see a double headed train of 201s? Quote
jhb171achill Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 There were two proposals of interest on NIR in the 1980s.... one was shipping of De Lorean cars from the Dunmurry factory to the docks, and the other was lignite (brown coal) from Crumlin (on the Antrim branch) to Belfast docks. That's mainly what they got the six "C" class for. Quote
Jawfin Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Will we ever see a double headed train of 201s? It's happened before - the brand new 208 and 209 double headed on the ITG, "Yankee Explorer," railtour in 1996 Quote
Noel Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 It's happened before - the brand new 208 and 209 double headed on the ITG, "Yankee Explorer," railtour in 1996 There was a myth that a pair of 201s in a consist hauling a special was a little over zealous on acceleratiion causing damage to couplings on some coaches. 6400 hp would need to be eased in gradually on a heavy train. Fiction or True? Quote
GSR 800 Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 If a pair of 201s were at the front and back of a train wouldn't that cause "hunting " due to the engine at the back like what happened with the hunslet on the enterprise reopening Quote
jhb171achill Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 In the States, they remotely control locos mid-train and at the back, so they all do the same things at the same time. Quote
Noel Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 If a pair of 201s were at the front and back of a train wouldn't that cause "hunting " due to the engine at the back like what happened with the hunslet on the enterprise reopening 201s are not designed to be used that way. Quote
Warbonnet Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 If a pair of 201s were at the front and back of a train wouldn't that cause "hunting " due to the engine at the back like what happened with the hunslet on the enterprise reopening Trains have operated in 'top and tail' fashion at high speeds around the world for at least 40 years, both powered at both ends or only at one end with no issues. Quote
rebelred Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 There was a proposal to double head the Mark IV'S a few years ago to improve reliability but became a non- runner because of the weight involved at line speed, Mallow Viaduct being one of the problems. Quote
Blaine Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Will we ever see a double headed train of 201s? I was on it Quote
GSR 800 Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 i cant remember where i heard this but wasnt bredin thinking of building pacifics before he decided on the 800s? Quote
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