00 WORKS proposed CBSC Loco

[Irishswissernie]

I received the attached email today from 00 Works. GSR ex CBSC 472 was a 0-6-0st scrapped in 1940 so a bit of an odd prototype to select but very similar to the LSWR 0330 saddle tank also mentioned. This was essentially a Beyer Peacock standard design. The advert wasn't attached

Ernie

Edited March 20, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[Georgeconna]

pic here,

 

Class J24 - 472 - CB&SCR 0-6-0ST, built 1881 by Beyer Peacock as Cork, Bandon & South Coast Railway No.6 - 1925 to GSR as No.472 - withdrawn 194

 

[leslie10646]

Nothing on their website.

I got the same e-mail, but almost all in lowercase - VERY unlike Rebecca.

Is it a hoax?

It wouldn't be my idea of a potentially good seller - but the four CBSCR modellers will be deliriously happy?

[Galteemore]

It’s odd syntax and lacks proof-reading I agree, but it’s a fairly niche hoax if it’s a con! Interesting choice if genuine. I suspect even UK modellers who don’t model the LSWR will find a light railway use for such a loco - it’s got a real Colonel Stephens appeal as some of the prototype locos ended up with him. Combine this with the new Hattons coaches and you could have a nice little bucolic scene. 

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/RALWAYS-EXCLUDED-FROM-THE-1923-GROUPING/COLONEL-STEPHENS-RAILWAYS/i-KfdZ4Lx/

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Galteemore

[Midland Man]

472 and a Bandon tank could make a nice little  pre grouping layout. 

 

[Mayner]

Demand for rtr Irish steam locos in the £250-300 price range is quite limited.  A loco like the LSWR 0330 Tank makes better sense than a purely Irish loco due to a far better return on the investment in the tooling, potentially with Southern, LSWR and various light railway and industrial versions. 

[jhb171achill]

A puzzling thing. Unless they plan to amend a British design to look Irish?

Anything Irish is to be welcomed, though I suspect the most financially viable Irish steam engines, if any, would be a GNR "S" class 4.4.0 and an NCC / UTA "Jeep" 2.6.4T. If you go to Wisht Caark, you do be lookin' at a Bangdin Tank, boy, as probably the bisht option. I tell ye, boy.

[Andy Cundick]

Mine was converted from a Chivers 0330 tank kit .An easy one to do  the main alteration was redoing the cab and widening the gauge,simple the problem being that its neither appropriate for Valencia or Courtmacsherry,Andy.

[jhb171achill]

57 minutes ago, Andy Cundick said:

Mine was converted from a Chivers 0330 tank kit .An easy one to do  the main alteration was redoing the cab and widening the gauge,simple the problem being that its neither appropriate for Valencia or Courtmacsherry,Andy.

Any pics, Andy?

Yes, you're right about, say, Valencia. Such a loco had a very limited area of operation, both geographical and time-wise.

[Andy Cundick]

Terribly sorry but i don't have any pictures to be honest i don't usually bother as i'looking at them most days ,the other problem is i wouldn't have a clue how to put them on here (Don't do computers)however i seem to remember she appears on a U Tube video with Valencia on it if i can find it again i'll let you know.It has occered to me that i might do  layout based on the Cork harbour lines,where she would be quite at home it would justify the two Bandon tanks as well not to mention the Courtmacsherry stock. Andy.

[Midland Man]

It may be in  Irish railways miscellany films from the 1940s?

[Richard EH]

A curious choice, but perhaps it's as a result of it's use on the LSWR as well. 

Ah well!

 

Richard

[Irishswissernie]

Its on 00 Works web site now

https://ooworks.co.uk/

 

Ernie

[Midland Man]

279 POUNDS! No way will anyone pay that price for an Irish engine that only worked in Cork until 1940.

[Mayner]

52 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

Its on 00 Works web site now

https://ooworks.co.uk/

 

Ernie

The LSWR saddle tank that also ran in Southern and two Colonel Stephens iterations makes better commercial sense (with a better return on the design and tooling costs) than a purely Irish loco with potentially greater demand for the English than the Irish version of the loco. The saddle tank also fits in well with other OO Works Southern engines.

 I understand that demand was fairly restricted for the OO Works locos locos with production limited to 100 units of each type and that the UG 0-6-0 was slow to sell out. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Mayner

[minister_for_hardship]

On 3/20/2020 at 3:10 PM, Georgeconna said:

pic here,

 

Class J24 - 472 - CB&SCR 0-6-0ST, built 1881 by Beyer Peacock as Cork, Bandon & South Coast Railway No.6 - 1925 to GSR as No.472 - withdrawn 194

 

Inchicore smokebox and Inchicore type chimney on that, its lost its original flush rivetted sloping smokebox and plain chimney. Think some of that BP design ended up on Swedish Railways, but being 00 not much use to that market.

Edited March 22, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[Mayner]

15 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Inchicore smokebox and Inchicore type chimney on that, its lost its original flush rivetted sloping smokebox and plain chimney. Think some of that BP design ended up on Swedish Railways, but being 00 not much use to that market.

Some of the Beyer Peacock saddle tanks retained many of their original features including sloping smokeboxes up to withdrawl, I suppose its question of whether OO Works consider that its worthwhile tooling up for the different features of the West Cork locos considering the relatively low level of demand for locos in this price range.

 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

Well, there'll be no need for various livery options anyway - nothing but grey!

It would be good to see the wheels grey too.... my two J15s are grey but have black wheels. Filthy weathering will eventually put manners on that, though!

Looking at the 00 Works site, the cab on the mock-up isn't remotely like the West Cork loco - presumably the Irish model will have an Inchicore cab....

[Patrick Davey]

This is a confusing choice by OO Works, I can't imagine a huge interest in this admittedly interesting locomotive.  If the UG was a slow seller, could this be better?  No offence intended to the memory of the prototype of course.

And I'm not understanding the 0330 either?

£279.00.......yikes........

[WRENNEIRE]

Probably wont be DCC ready like the J15's

Not exactly rocket science 

[Galteemore]

5 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

This is a confusing choice by OO Works, I can't imagine a huge interest in this admittedly interesting locomotive.  If the UG was a slow seller, could this be better?  No offence intended to the memory of the prototype of course.

And I'm not understanding the 0330 either?

£279.00.......yikes........

Light railway and industrial modelling has really taken off in the UK - certainly in 7mm. This fits in with that. Small trains which mean one can have a layout in a small space but with some quirky variety. This is like the Model Rail Sentinel which came out a few years ago - which similarly included a bonus Irish spin-off! 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Galteemore

[Mayner]

17 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Light railway and industrial modelling has really taken off in the UK - certainly in 7mm. This fits in with that. Small trains which mean one can have a layout in a small space but with some quirky variety. This is like the Model Rail Sentinel which came out a few years ago - we’re just fortunate it includes a bonus Irish spin-off! 

The loco appears to be aimed at the British as a LSWR 330 Saddle Tank rather than the Irish outline market, available in four different liveries as opposed to a choice of numbers with the GSR version.

The Beattie Saddle Tank fits in well with OO Works other Southern locos and fills a significant gap in rtr pre-group light railway locos as the Beattie Well Tank, Brighton Terrier and SECR P Class are available in rtr form, leaving the Ifracombe Goods and LNWR Coal Engine as the only significant gaps in ex-main line Colonel Stephens engines.

It will be interesting to see if OO Works use the same tooling for both the British and Irish version of the loco.

[jhb171achill]

Just had a long yarn with Roderick, and he’s done a huge amount of research into these locos.....

The Irish one will have two different numbers, representing the last two in traffic (withdrawn 1939 & 1940).

In Britain, equivalents were primarily shunters but here they’d be suitable also for a fictitious West Cork branch.

They’d be ideal for a 1920-40 shunting layout, as it seems the three that the GSR inherited* were used to shunt the Quay lines in Cork, and Albert Quay goods yard.

Given that they could have been seen over in Glanmire Road goods yard, and the Penrose Quay sidings, they will have occasionally mixed and mingled with J15s, as already produced by 00 Works.

A nice and unusual little model. There weren’t that many saddle tanks in Ireland....

(*  The GSR inherited all five but two were withdrawn straight away).

Roderick assures me that the different cab design and different external piping will be reflected in the Irish model.

[Patrick Davey]

On 23/3/2020 at 6:42 AM, Galteemore said:

Light railway and industrial modelling has really taken off in the UK - certainly in 7mm. This fits in with that. Small trains which mean one can have a layout in a small space but with some quirky variety. This is like the Model Rail Sentinel which came out a few years ago - which similarly included a bonus Irish spin-off! 

Am currently planning a semi-industrial GNR(I) micro layout......

Edited April 21, 2022 by Patrick Davey

[jhb171achill]

52 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

A currently planning a semi-industrial GNR(I) micro layout......

A thing like that - perfect. One GNR loco and one “industrial” - something the factory bought 2nd hand from the GSR in 1940!!  A dozen goods vans and you’re good to go..... 

[Patrick Davey]

Micros are the way to go!  My inspiration is a certain Mr. Chris Nevard, he produces amazing stuff!!

http://www.nevard.com

[Galteemore]

Yes, they have lots of advantages. Low cost, easily stored, can be finished in a reasonable time, and don’t need much stock. Not much use if you want to see an A4 at speed with 8 bogies, but sometimes one has to compromise ! Carl Arendt’s site was always a joy - not so easy to navigate as the site has gone through changes since his death, but here’s a reasonable link: https://www.carendt.com/category/micro-layout-design-gallery/

Edited March 23, 2020 by Galteemore

[leslie10646]

Just repeating a post on another topic which has got impressively off subject.

Midland Man remembered a Horse-worked tramway in Co Cork and in my reply, I mention the Allman's distillery siding / branch.

Roderick's new little loco would have been a good candidate for use on the little branch.

I presume the Hard Stuff for All Men is no longer around - is anyone old enough to have tried it?

It might have been just the thing when one is locked up (down?).

 

  3 hours ago, Midland Man said:

Wow great pics 

I remember hearing about a branch in Cork that was horse oporated. Like on the Fintona The horses only carried one name. Insted of Dick like on the Fintona branch they were all called Paddy.

Yes, MM, the siding to the Bennett flour mill at Shannonvale (from the Clonakilty line of the CBSCR) was ALWAYS horse worked - I believe that Colm Creedon in his little history of the line stated that the horse pulled wagons up to the main line, but gravity "hauled" them in the other direction!  There is a photo of the (white) horse with a "H" Van at the mill in Ernie Shepherd's later book.

Ah, well done Mr R - beat me to it!

At first I thought it was the Allman's Distillery branch, but that was always loco-worked.

[minister_for_hardship]

6 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Just repeating a post on another topic which has got impressively off subject.

Midland Man remembered a Horse-worked tramway in Co Cork and in my reply, I mention the Allman's distillery siding / branch.

Roderick's new little loco would have been a good candidate for use on the little branch.

I presume the Hard Stuff for All Men is no longer around - is anyone old enough to have tried it?

It might have been just the thing when one is locked up (down?).

 

  3 hours ago, Midland Man said:

 

Wow great pics 

 

I remember hearing about a branch in Cork that was horse oporated. Like on the Fintona The horses only carried one name. Insted of Dick like on the Fintona branch they were all called Paddy.

 

Yes, MM, the siding to the Bennett flour mill at Shannonvale (from the Clonakilty line of the CBSCR) was ALWAYS horse worked - I believe that Colm Creedon in his little history of the line stated that the horse pulled wagons up to the main line, but gravity "hauled" them in the other direction!  There is a photo of the (white) horse with a "H" Van at the mill in Ernie Shepherd's later book.

 

Ah, well done Mr R - beat me to it!

 

At first I thought it was the Allman's Distillery branch, but that was always loco-worked.

 

Allman's had their own locomotive, the first one known as Allman's Coffee Pot from its archaic appearance and its replacement, a Peckett, ended up in GSR hands after the closure of the distillery.

That's not to say a loco could have been borrowed or leased from the CB&SC if their own was out of traffic, six coupled may have been a bit big for a poky distillery, the Peckett was like a toy, size-wise.

[Mayner]

21 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

In Britain, equivalents were primarily shunters but here they’d be suitable also for a fictitious West Cork branch.

They’d be ideal for a 1920-40 shunting layout, as it seems the three that the GSR inherited* were used to shunt the Quay lines in Cork, and Albert Quay goods yard.

Given that they could have been seen over in Glanmire Road goods yard, and the Penrose Quay sidings, they will have occasionally mixed and mingled with J15s, as already produced by 00 Works.

 

The saddle tanks appear to have been used as mixed traffic rather than shunting locos in pre-amalgamation days. There is a 1914 photo of CBSCR No 17 later GSR 473 working a long Clonakilty-Cork mixed train and an undated photo of a saddle tank arriving at Bantry with a mixed train (possibly in GSR days) in Ernie Shepherds West Cork book.

Its likely that the saddle tanks were used on main line goods and passenger duties until replaced by the Bandon Tanks between 1906 and 1920 and may have been continued in use on branch line duties following the amalgamation until replaced by ex DSER & GSWR locos in the mid-late 1930s.

The Hornby Peckett 0-4-0ST and Hattons 6w coaches would make good companions for the Beyer Peacock  saddle tank on a Cork City Railway module or West Cork layout. The West Cork used a mixture of 6w and short bogie coaches some of which were of similar length to the 6 wheelers.

 

[jhb171achill]

True, though that would have been pre-rebuild, i.e. about 1922.

One can only wonder how much (or little!) coal was being scraped out of the bunker once it got as far as Skibbereen.....

It seems the Irish ones had slightly bigger bunkers that the British variants, but not that much.....

[Colin R]

I will give credit to OO Works for doing these models, but one thing which bugs me, when  I enquired about UG and asked if I was able to fit a 21mm gauge chassis under it, they said it was not possible and I would need to rebuild the whole thing, which to me would be a waste of my money, so I did not buy one or a J15 as I have two form SSM still to build.

I now have five or six 21mm gauge locos to build at some point, so unless new models have that added space  then as they say I am out of buying one.

Colin R

     

[DiveController]

 

[Westcorkrailway]

There are some still a few of these left in GSR grey. I’ve seen a few floating around…I want to know what people think of them 

 

as a CB&SCR man. Of course this loco has always been in my radar. But ther weren’t many of them, and were withdrawn ludicrously early 

 

also when you look at how much they will cost plus tax in todays market. Must be 375+……not really something a leaving cert student can afford without serious contemplation….and possibly selling a few things!

[Mike 84C]

I have one , its a very good model and may in later years become more valuable. 00 works only do very limited runs and I believe once only. Just a thought.