Murphy Models new 201 and Mk3 coaches

[Westcorkrailway]

Characterless, peat briquette, doorstop, paperweight unreliable bricks that some may think of them. I will always like the 201 class (ecpecially in IE Silver/Green). And regardless of what many think of these locos, they will be with us a good while yet!

 

[Ironroad]

1 hour ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Characterless, peat briquette, doorstop, paperweight unreliable bricks that some may think of them. 

For those that say this I would ask, "As compared with what?",  besides no diesel has the character of a steam loco.

[Noel]

15 hours ago, Ironroad said:

For those that say this I would ask, "As compared with what?",  besides no diesel has the character of a steam loco.

The 201s prototypes grew on me especially intercity green'n'grey. Travel on them frequently. I find in model form, they are rather long, no reflection on the model. The prototype lacks the distinctively interesting shape of the earlier GMs with their walkways and space 1999 style cabs that look like the extremities of a space station module. Not steam but a 141 had a certain presence about it. The prototype 201s and A class bodies were less interesting due to their simpler shape. I actually have two 201s, but don't operate them often. 141/181s the most used models on the layout. Singly or in consist pairs. They are still my favourite model of all time, not a critique just a personal preference.

[Ironroad]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

The 201s prototypes grew on me especially intercity green'n'grey. Travel on them frequently. I find in model form, they are rather long, no reflection on the model. The prototype lacks the distinctively interesting shape of the earlier GMs with their walkways and space 1999 style cabs that look like the extremities of a space station module. Not steam but a 141 had a certain presence about it. The prototype 201s and A class bodies were less interesting due to their simpler shape. I actually have two 201s, but don't operate them often. 141/181s the most used models on the layout. Singly or in consist pairs. They are still my favourite model of all time, not a critique just a personal preference.

That about sums it up. The GMs except for the 201 have more interesting profiles than probably any other diesel prototype in Ireland or the UK. but that doesn't justify describing those less interesting profiles (long or short) as bricks or briquettes. They are what ran or still run on the railways we aspire to model and so we need to accept them otherwise what's the point. They are what they are.

[irishthump]

18 hours ago, Ironroad said:

For those that say this I would ask, "As compared with what?",  besides no diesel has the character of a steam loco.

Sorry but I have absolutely no interest in steam locos, and could never see the attraction of them, except perhaps for those who grew up watching them.

[DJ Dangerous]

12 hours ago, irishthump said:

Sorry but I have absolutely no interest in steam locos, and could never see the attraction of them, except perhaps for those who grew up watching them.

 

Steam locos are nice and all, but for me, they don't hold a candle to the diesels.

The 201 in particular, possibly because it wasn't banana shaped like the previous GM diesels, had a much bigger, more powerful presence.

Still love the 071's!

[Ironroad]

38 minutes ago, irishthump said:

Sorry but I have absolutely no interest in steam locos, and could never see the attraction of them, except perhaps for those who grew up watching them.

Yes, nostalgia is probably a big part of this, but steam made the railways possible and steam engines are the epitome of them. Diesels for all their practicality are pretenders.

[DJ Dangerous]

25 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

I presume the shape you refer to is in the eye of the beholder

That's it, on the nail!

Old guys are going to remember steam fondly, middle-aged guys are going to remember diesels fondly, kids are going to remember 22000's fondly.

[JasonB]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

The 201 in particular, possibly because it wasn't penis shaped like the previous GM diesels, had a much bigger, more powerful presence.

 

37 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

I presume the shape you refer to is in the eye of the beholder

Right, this is just getting weird now. 

[irishthump]

33 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

Yes, nostalgia is probably a big part of this, but steam made the railways possible and steam engines are the epitome of them. Diesels for all their practicality are pretenders.

Pretenders? I suppose that's why diesel supplanted steam......

[DJ Dangerous]

Just now, irishthump said:

Pretenders? I suppose that's why diesel supplanted steam......

Well, technically second generation pretenders, as steam engines were pretenders following the era of the horses.

[Ironroad]

3 hours ago, irishthump said:

Pretenders? I suppose that's why diesel supplanted steam......

Even a kid knows what a CHU CHU is 

[minister_for_hardship]

7 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Even a kid knows what a CHU CHU is 

Funny that regular trains haven't made a "choo choo" sound in over a half century that kids (and not a few adults) still call them that.

Edited March 14, 2022 by minister_for_hardship

[Broithe]

This is still the UK's warning sign for an ungated level crossing.

I suppose it's more recognisable as a 'train' than a generic diesel silhouette would be.

[spudfan]

The 201 shape was initially put forward to Foster Yeoman  when the class 59 was being planned. They did not go for it as we know. I might have put the photo of the planned design on here somewhere before but if you want I'll put it up again. It is in one of the books about Foster Yeoman.

Imagine if Irish Rail had gone for a stretched 071 rather than a new design.....

[Westcorkrailway]

3 hours ago, Broithe said:

This is still the UK's warning sign for an ungated level crossing.

I suppose it's more recognisable as a 'train' than a generic diesel silhouette would be.

It’s some sort of 4-4-0 design here in Ireland too. It’s yellow and it has a level crossing silhouette on the sign.

2 minutes ago, spudfan said:

Imagine if Irish Rail had gone for a stretched 071 rather than a new design.....

not a bad alternative, but hard to imagine in my head. Would a stretched 071 look well?

[spudfan]

Don't think an 071 could ever look bad!!!

[Blaine]

17 minutes ago, spudfan said:

The 201 shape was initially put forward to Foster Yeoman  when the class 59 was being planned. They did not go for it as we know. I might have put the photo of the planned design on here somewhere before but if you want I'll put it up again. It is in one of the books about Foster Yeoman.

FY wanted it to look more like a BR Class 52 Western than the '201' design which predated the IE one by 11 years, so FY got their wish. The 201 has the bodyside ribs which were designed to match wagons that FY had at the time

The main challenge was shrinking the SD40-2 design into the British loading gauge and keeping all of the complex electronics that allow their incredible haulage capacity

[spudfan]

Yep that is the photo I was thinking of.

[Noel]

10 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Funny that regular trains haven't made a "choo choo" sound in over a half century that kids (and not a few adults) still call them that.

Yes when our grandchildren are visiting they ask can they come up and play with the choo choo train set. They think 'models' are photos of people with eating disorders. Toys they are and toys they play with howling 'choo-choo' with excitement as the trains run around the layout.  They love racing them around the loops both running in the same direction.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Noel
lexdysia

[Noel]

MM229 hauling Tony Mirolo resprays doesn't look bad even though its 40 years beyond my modelling era. Time travel is permissible on ones layout, especially when CIE B&T B121 trundles past this formation on the inside loop hauling loose coupled stock. 

201 doesn't look bad when dressed properly

[Sean]

a question on my lips for a while now that has piqued my interest with this thread. 

 

why not a regauge class 66? would that not have been cheaper than designing the 201 from scratch? i mean they are pretty similar locos under the hood right? 

 

in the last 20 years we have seen the 66 deployed accross europe and even into africa.

 

The GL8 went all over the world with only minimal modifications, how come 201 had to be a bespoke design? 

[spudfan]

Did the 201 not predate the class 66?

[connollystn]

Hi Sean. From what I can remember the class 66 was introduced after the 201 [new]. The Class 59 was the precurcor to the 66 whereas the 201 [new] was designed in conjunction with Irish Rail.

[hexagon789]

I understand the designs are identical except:

The IÉ 201 had HEP equipment fitted, passenger gearing (165km/h vs 120km/h) and a different cab design.

The engines, generator, traction motors are all the same and I suspect much of the other mechanical equipment is too.

[Mayner]

I think the Class 66 EMD Model JT42CUR  introduced 1998 have a later (more reliable) version of the EMD 710 engine and more significantly are heavier with  'self steering bogies' https://writebetter.io/examples/radial+self-steering+bogies/ .

Self Steering Bogies were introduced during the mid late 1990s on American high horsepower freight locos such as the EMD SD70Mac and EG Dash 9-44CW to reduce wear and adhesion on curves a single SD70 or Dash 9-44 was expected to do the work of 1-2 earlier 6 axle locos such as SD40-2.

The 201s are EMD Model JT42 HCW     JT---Twin cab       42---EMD loco type  H--head end power  C- 6 axle version   W  Standard to 5'6" gauge

The CUR suffix on the Class 66 JT42CUR  likely to be C-6 axle version     U  meter to 5'6" gauge bogies R---Radial bogie?

Edited March 14, 2022 by Mayner

[spudfan]

I think the issue was the way Irish Rail were using the HEP facility. I think a revised schedule sorted that out.

[hexagon789]

32 minutes ago, Mayner said:

I think the Class 66 EMD Model JT42CUR  introduced 1998 have a later (more reliable) version of the EMD 710 engine and more significantly are heavier with  'self steering bogies' https://writebetter.io/examples/radial+self-steering+bogies/ .

Self Steering Bogies were introduced during the mid late 1990s on American high horsepower freight locos such as the EMD SD70Mac and EG Dash 9-44CW to reduce wear and adhesion on curves a single SD70 or Dash 9-44 was expected to do the work of 1-2 earlier 6 axle locos such as SD40-2.

The 201s are EMD Model JT42 HCW     JT---Twin cab       42---EMD loco type  H--head end power  C- 6 axle version   W  Standard to 5'6" gauge

The CUR suffix on the Class 66 JT42CUR  likely to be C-6 axle version     U  meter to 5'6" gauge bogies R---Radial bogie?

Good point, maybe more a passenger GB Class 59 then?

14 minutes ago, spudfan said:

I think the issue was the way Irish Rail were using the HEP facility. I think a revised schedule sorted that out.

It's probably just as well the original plan to get rid of generator vans on Mk2D and Mk3 sets was shelved!

[mfjoc]

Thought I would bump this topic up.

Any rumor's about when any of the new models are going to be released?

Last update on Murphy's website is March 2021 with just the announcements.

 

[Westcorkrailway]

5 minutes ago, mfjoc said:

Thought I would bump this topic up.

Any rumor's about when any of the new models are going to be released?

Last update on Murphy's website is March 2021 with just the announcements.

 

What I would say the status quote still remains that we are still looking at the Very least a Q4 2023 release. Paddy said at Inchicore he was still in early stages with the 201s…and that was for models aperenly due last spring 

 

I really hope they still do come out. Those 2021 announcements have something for everyone 

[Branchline121]

1 hour ago, Westcorkrailway said:

What I would say the status quote still remains that we are still looking at the Very least a Q4 2023 release. Paddy said at Inchicore he was still in early stages with the 201s…and that was for models aperenly due last spring 

 

I really hope they still do come out. Those 2021 announcements have something for everyone 

This delay could be a good thing, it might allow IRM to announce a Mk4 to release in conjunction with the 201! Or at least that’s what I’m hoping.

[spudfan]

I think part of the delay has been caused by Paddy Murphy wanting to model 224 in it's present incarnation as above. He is trying to get the damage right....

[Warbonnet]

Hi everyone,

If it's any use I believe the current plan is to land the Mark 2 run first. When the time comes we will be retailing these, the 201s and other future models on the IRM website, so look out for news and updates regarding pre-ordering. We will naturally post any info re numbers, pricing and delivery etc once we get them there and on here.

Cheers!

Fran 

[Westcorkrailway]

2 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

If it's any use I believe the current plan is to land the Mark 2 run first. When the time comes we will be retailing these, the 201s and other future models on the IRM website, so look out for news and updates regarding pre-ordering. We will naturally post any info re numbers, pricing and delivery etc once we get them there and on here.

Cheers!

Fran 

Do please….I’m waiting for that green 201 with the new logo eagarly…and it’s about 60 years after my era!

[jhb171achill]

10 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Do please….I’m waiting for that green 201 with the new logo eagarly…and it’s about 60 years after my era!

Do you mean a "C" class in "flying snail" green? .....................................................