eBay Watch

[Noel]

Some MM baby GMs are going for more sensible prices 

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/284082786267?ul_noapp=true

 

[Railer]

On 20/11/2020 at 1:55 AM, Strimmers said:

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Iarnrod-Eireann-Bachmann-MK2-auto-ballaster-set-Mint/193752142960?hash=item2d1c871470:g:wa8AAOSwSYVfsZv2 

over a 100% return here a set with a €170 bid

It ended up selling for €180 with almost €25 postage .

 

[Noel]

FYI, There is about 4 of these Bachmann Irish rail intercity mk2a's due to sell on eBay in the next few hours. It's not me selling, I already have a rake, but remember some folks were lamenting their lack of availability. Expensive but at the moment bids aren't completely insane. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Murphy-Models-IE-Intercity-Mark-2A-TSO-Open-Second-Coach/193760517684

[murphaph]

Too rich for my blood at those prices (at least the ones I need are heading towards a hundred each) but if anyone wants to sell any of the following for €50 a coach or so plus postage feel free to contact me (I'll list the coach numbers + livery because the Bachmann numbering on these was cryptic):

-4101, 4108 in IR livery

-4108 in IE livery

I have managed to secure the other 5 of these produced thanks to some gentlemen members of this very forum  

I have a spare 4110 in IE livery which I would be willing to swap for one of my missing ones. I'm in Germany but the coach is in Dublin and can be posted within Ireland or the UK if a swap comes along

[skinner75]

Silver and black 071 currently at £276!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114534733246

[Rob]

Seems to be gone so somebody must have gone for it?

[murphaph]

Yeah it ended at that price. Kind of weird as there are two other ones on eBay at £275 buy it now. They are always there too.

[WRENNEIRE]

 There were 21 bids on this loco from 9 bidders 
Final price works out at around €310
Weld on another €25 for p&p and you have one expensive loco

[jhb171achill]

Wonder if I can sell one of my 141s..............can we start at €1000?

[NIRCLASS80]

4 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Wonder if I can sell one of my 141s..............can we start at €1000?

Go on and give it a go!  You never know your luck. 

[murphaph]

Some folks clearly saw the red eBay mist towards the end pushing the price way up.

That's why I can only recommend people who place bids on eBay to do so using a bide sniper/proxy setting the max price you feel genuinely comfortable paying and then forgetting about the auction unless eBay tells you you've won.

Stuff that sells for £276 today might go for under £200 the next time. If your bid is reasonable then eventually with a bit of patience you will get what you're after for a price you feel comfortable with. You will lose more than you win but if the opposite happens your bids are probably too high

Aim to lose most and win the odd one at a reasonable price.

[DJ Dangerous]

Paying that much for a model worth €150 is desperate, foolish, ignorant, or some combination thereof!

Likewise with those Mk2A's, €40 or so a pop is grand, but any more is..........

Yeah, I understand if somebody wants to spoil themselves or is missing just a particular model from their collection, then they are likely to spend over the odds to fill that hole.

Still, time for IRM to get the 141's, 181's and 071's onto their roadmap, if Murphy Models are not in a position to re-run them over the next few years.

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Still, time for IRM to get the 141's, 181's and 071's onto their roadmap, if Murphy Models are not in a position to re-run them over the next few years.

 

I hope so, otherwise we might be seeing a non running 141 recovered from a shipwreck going for 642 pounds sterling!!

[Noel]

26 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 

I hope so, otherwise we might be seeing a non running 141 recovered from a shipwreck going for 642 pounds sterling!!

Like the sealed barrels of Guinness discovered on board Guinness barge 45M after she was raised from the bottom of Lough Derg in 300ft of water having sunk in a storm 29 years earlier in 1946?

[WRENNEIRE]

Still, time for IRM to get the 141's, 181's and 071's onto their roadmap, if Murphy Models are not in a position to re-run them over the next few years.

For the last time people, re runs are not going to happen unless you fancy paying €400+ for the privilege
The initial runs were produced with the minimum amount of models produced 504 of 12 different liveries which is just over 6000 models. So the moulds are still there and that cost can be subtracted from the next run but it would mean making 3500+ models which means 290+ of each livery.
So I reckon 100 of each livery might sell, what happens the rest?
 

[DJ Dangerous]

19 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Still, time for IRM to get the 141's, 181's and 071's onto their roadmap, if Murphy Models are not in a position to re-run them over the next few years.

For the last time people, re runs are not going to happen unless you fancy paying €400+ for the privilege
The initial runs were produced with the minimum amount of models produced 504 of 12 different liveries which is just over 6000 models. So the moulds are still there and that cost can be subtracted from the next run but it would mean making 3500+ models which means 290+ of each livery.
So I reckon 100 of each livery might sell, what happens the rest?
 

I respectfully disagree.

The A class are not retailing at €400 each, and there are more than 100 units being produced.

The Irish market is growing, not contracting, and is not the same creature that it was ten years ago.

IRM have contributed massively to this growth, and are probably responsible for the large surge in sales of MM 071's this year, which are now all but unavailable.

I reckon that in two years time, or less, demand for an Irish loco other than the A will drive second-hand prices to even more insane levels if one is not announced or at least speculated about.

[Strimmers]

 

4 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I respectfully disagree.

The A class are not retailing at €400 each, and there are more than 100 units being produced.

The Irish market is growing, not contracting, and is not the same creature that it was ten years ago.

IRM have contributed massively to this growth, and are probably responsible for the large surge in sales of MM 071's this year, which are now all but unavailable.

I reckon that in two years time, or less, demand for an Irish loco other than the A will drive second-hand prices to even more insane levels if one is not announced or at least speculated about.

The A class is a complete new tooling miles above the standard of anything else you could get your hands on so its able to sell more than 100 of each variant because there's demand where as with a 141/181 or 071 you won't sell as many even if there was a new tool like nobody is going to replace their entire fleet of mm 141/181 or 071s at quite a cost for marginal improvements on what are fantastic models. Like maybe some years down the line IRM will have grown the market to a point where there is enough demand 

But at the end of the day Mr Murphy and the folks at IRM are intelligent people and would already have these re runs/new tools in their plans if it were to be financially viable to do so and if that time comes can't imagine they'd be too reluctant to produce something that would easily sell 500+ of each variant

 

[Noel]

16 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I respectfully disagree.

The A class are not retailing at €400 each, and there are more than 100 units being produced.

The Irish market is growing, not contracting, and is not the same creature that it was ten years ago.

IRM have contributed massively to this growth, and are probably responsible for the large surge in sales of MM 071's this year, which are now all but unavailable.

I reckon that in two years time, or less, demand for an Irish loco other than the A will drive second-hand prices to even more insane levels if one is not announced or at least speculated about.

I quite understand @WRENNEIRE's sentiments, having said that the tooling already exists for Bachmann to do an unrefreshed run of the 141/181s in only the most popular liveries which I guess may have been the IR and IE, and I've no doubt they would sell out due to the pent up demand and all the new entrants to the hobby and Irish Outline scene in the past decade who missed out of the first production run. Those Bachmann 141/181 models still stand up very well today. A refresh would probably make them financially non-viable (eg decoder hatch, builtin speaker, independent head light control, improved glazing, etc). Put a 141 beside a recent 121 and they stand up well. The upcoming A classes are likely to "blow the bloody doors off" and may absorb spend capacity, not to mention the Deltic and Class 37.

[DJ Dangerous]

5 minutes ago, Strimmers said:

 

The A class is a complete new tooling miles above the standard of anything else you could get your hands on so its able to sell more than 100 of each variant because there's demand where as with a 141/181 or 071 you won't sell as many even if there was a new tool like nobody is going to replace their entire fleet of mm 141/181 or 071s at quite a cost for marginal improvements on what are fantastic models. Like maybe some years down the line IRM will have grown the market to a point where there is enough demand 

But at the end of the day Mr Murphy and the folks at IRM are intelligent people and would already have these re runs/new tools in their plans if it were to be financially viable to do so and if that time comes can't imagine they'd be too reluctant to produce something that would easily sell 500+ of each variant

 

The A class were retired 25 years ago, so comparing A Classes to 071's is like comparing apples to oranges.

A 141 / 181 is worth €100, yet people, me included are prepared to pay twice that and still can't track down some of them.

An 071 is worth €150, yet people are prepared to pay €300 for one.

We'll see how the next four or five years go, but I stand by my opinion. There is no way in Hell that the market is contracting. It is growing. It is not the same market that it was ten years ago.

We WILL see another Irish loco after the A, whether it's a release by MM, IRM, Bachmann or somebody else.

[Robert Shrives]

That would be nice and for sheer bedevilment of the false god of wish listing let it be Hunslet....  but guess the C class is most likely but both after 80 class... 

Gets helmet and runs for cover !

Robert

[Strimmers]

18 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

The A class were retired 25 years ago, so comparing A Classes to 071's is like comparing apples to oranges.

That is quite true like they were retired before I was born I'll still be purchasing A39r (as its preserved) and I would say in comparing A class to 071 someone say 20 years my senior they would've seen an A class on the network in the same manner that I currently see the 071s running so would sell well on nostalgic grounds which is rather prevelent amongst layouts I've seen on this forum

[skinner75]

Once no longer available to buy new, a loco's value is whatever someone is prepared to pay in order to get their hands on it. If more than one person is after the same loco on ebay, then a bidding war will result in the price being driven up. It is no different to a regular auction with people bidding on an antique that isn't available to buy new anymore.

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, Strimmers said:

That is quite true like they were retired before I was born I'll still be purchasing A39r (as its preserved) and I would say in comparing A class to 071 someone say 20 years my senior they would've seen an A class on the network in the same manner that I currently see the 071s running so would sell well on nostalgic grounds which is rather prevelent amongst layouts I've seen on this forum

I was only little when the A's were in service, so my memory is hazy, but I'll definitely buy a few!

 

50 minutes ago, skinner75 said:

Once no longer available to buy new, a loco's value is whatever someone is prepared to pay in order to get their hands on it. If more than one person is after the same loco on ebay, then a bidding war will result in the price being driven up. It is no different to a regular auction with people bidding on an antique that isn't available to buy new anymore.

Very very true, and those sellers would no longer be likely to achieve silly prices if the models were re-run.

[Georgeconna]

2 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I respectfully disagree.

The A class are not retailing at €400 each, and there are more than 100 units being produced.

The Irish market is growing, not contracting, and is not the same creature that it was ten years ago.

IRM have contributed massively to this growth, and are probably responsible for the large surge in sales of MM 071's this year, which are now all but unavailable.

I reckon that in two years time, or less, demand for an Irish loco other than the A will drive second-hand prices to even more insane levels if one is not announced or at least speculated about.

 

They A Class are ' Cheap' now as they are available to buy now. You can't compare the same with the 141 prices on ebay, I have said if before. If two blokes with endless wallets and there are a good few of them about then the chaps who are willing to pay max 200 slobs will loose out.  My last baby someone offered 200 notes, it went for 350 in the end, I won't refuse the extra 150 notes at any stage.

 

When the A's sell out then the same will happen to the value there hopefully.

The 071s took ages to move from the shelves. Same as the 201s and tbh you could easily say a lot of people on here have more then one loco bought of those classes. I know I do, When I look at what I have I most likely will never use some of the locos.

I sold a book the other week, Bought for £35 in 2000, Sold for £280 notes last week, I would not even look at paying that for that book but the chap who wanted it had to as you cant get the volume anywhere. Hopefully it will be reprinted at some stage as it was a fab book.

Good luck DJ in getting babys for bargain price bud.

[DJ Dangerous]

4 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

 

They A Class are ' Cheap' now as they are available to buy now. You can't compare the same with the 141 prices on ebay, I have said if before. If two blokes with endless wallets and there are a good few of them about then the chaps who are willing to pay max 200 slobs will loose out.  My last baby someone offered 200 notes, it went for 350 in the end, I won't refuse the extra 150 notes at any stage.

 

When the A's sell out then the same will happen to the value there hopefully.

The 071s took ages to move from the shelves. Same as the 201s and tbh you could easily say a lot of people on here have more then one loco bought of those classes. I know I do, When I look at what I have I most likely will never use some of the locos.

I sold a book the other week, Bought for £35 in 2000, Sold for £280 notes last week, I would not even look at paying that for that book but the chap who wanted it had to as you cant get the volume anywhere. Hopefully it will be reprinted at some stage as it was a fab book.

Good luck DJ in getting babys for bargain price bud.

 

Exactly, that's it, right there.

There is demand, even now, at crazy prices, so there will be even more demand in the future at realistic prices.

Not today, but just wait a year or two and somebody will announce the launch of an Irish loco.

It'll be to the detriment of the few and the benefit of the many.

And the needs of the many.....

[Noel]

1 hour ago, Robert Shrives said:

That would be nice and for sheer bedevilment of the false god of wish listing let it be Hunslet....  but guess the C class is most likely but both after 80 class... 

Gets helmet and runs for cover !

Robert

As we are in the realm of fantasy island, yes C class, Sulzers 101, 113 and while they are at it a few 800's with working smoke generators and a subwhoofer in the tender would be nice also.   CIE laminates and Park Royals, the 1970 1st edition of Victor comic 25th D day anniversary edition too would be nice.  

[Ironroad]

 

5 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Still, time for IRM to get the 141's, 181's and 071's onto their roadmap, if Murphy Models are not in a position to re-run them over the next few years.

For the last time people, re runs are not going to happen unless you fancy paying €400+ for the privilege
The initial runs were produced with the minimum amount of models produced 504 of 12 different liveries which is just over 6000 models. So the moulds are still there and that cost can be subtracted from the next run but it would mean making 3500+ models which means 290+ of each livery.
So I reckon 100 of each livery might sell, what happens the rest?
 

 

5 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I respectfully disagree.

The A class are not retailing at €400 each, and there are more than 100 units being produced.

The Irish market is growing, not contracting, and is not the same creature that it was ten years ago.

IRM have contributed massively to this growth, and are probably responsible for the large surge in sales of MM 071's this year, which are now all but unavailable.

I reckon that in two years time, or less, demand for an Irish loco other than the A will drive second-hand prices to even more insane levels if one is not announced or at least speculated about.

Hi DJ, the mathematics are not on your side of this debate.  A few people with deep pockets bidding against each other for a few no longer in production items on E Bay is not indicative of a market for a re run of these items.  As Wrenneire has pointed out the initial production runs were relatively small in the order of 6.000 items but that doesn't mean there were 6.000 customers,  at best the likelihood is there were probably less than 3.000 customers because those that did buy them probably brought multiples. For example I bought 9 x 201's, 8 x 071's, 7 x 141's & 7 x 181's.  Also consider how many people are serious enough to sign up on this forum, in the scheme of things it's a very small number. 

It's tempting to believe that because the tooling still exists that re runs are viable, but it is unlikely that there is a market for the the volumes needed to sell re-runs at the sort of price that would be affordable for most of us.  Whoever undertook such a venture would have to be content with holding unsold stock filtering off the shelves slowly over many years and there is no return on investment in that.

I'm more concerned with where we go from here. With the release of the A class next year all of the most ubiquitous diesel locomotives that ran on Irish rails from the late '50s to the present time will have been produced as RTR models and while that is quite amazing to me, I think there is a dilemma for IRM or any other producer as to where to go next. I say this because if my reading of comments on this forum generally are correct, there are sharp divisions as to preferences for period. That in itself further dilutes the market even more for any  possible future offerings.  If I were to hazard a guess we are more likely to see offerings of rolling stock rather than locomotive power because they sell in much greater multiples.  

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Ironroad
spelling error

[DJ Dangerous]

6 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

 

 

Hi DJ, the mathematics are not on your side of this debate.  A few people with deep pockets bidding against each other for a few no longer in production items on E Bay is not indicative of a market for a re run of these items.  As Wrenneire has pointed out the initial production runs were relatively small in the order of 6.000 items but that doesn't mean there were 6.000 customers,  at best the likelihood is there were probably less than 3.000 customers because those that did buy them probably brought multiples. For example I bought 9 x 201's, 8 x 071's, 7 x 141's & 7 x 181's.  Also consider how many people are serious enough to sign up on this forum, in the scheme of things it's a very small number. 

It's tempting to believe that because the tooling still exists that re runs are viable, but it is unlikely that there is a market for the the volumes needed to sell re-runs at the sort of price that would be affordable for most of us.  Whoever undertook such a venture would have to be content with holding unsold stock filtering off the shelves slowly over many years and there is no return on investment in that.

I'm more concerned with where we go from here. With the release of the A class next year all of the most ubiquitous diesel locomotives that ran on Irish rails from the late '50s to the present time will have been produced as RTR models and while that is quite amazing to me, I think there is a dilemma for IRM or any other producer as to where to go next. I say this because if my reading of comments on this forum generally are correct, there are sharp divisions as to preferences for period. That in itself further dilutes the market even more for any  possible future offerings.  If I were to hazard a guess we are more likely to see offerings of rolling stock rather than locomotive power because they sell in much greater multiples.  

 

 

 

Again, I respectfully disagree.

The market is growing, not contracting, and is not the same market that it was ten years ago.

There is already a gap for motive power, soon to be filled by the A.

Saying that an 071 will not be made in the future, for a growing market, starved of said 071's, does not make any sense.

Imagine if there had only been one release of each British outline loco over the last ten or fifteen years.

The market is bigger there, duh, but saying that nobody can release a loco in the future because somebody released one in the past...

Also, releasing rolling stock and no locomotives? I mean, seriously?

Very true what you say on eBay, the big-spenders vs. price-gougers are not a true representation of the market, but taken into account with the current lack of available motive power, it becomes an indicator of where things shall lie in a few years.

I could be wrong, honestly, maybe the IRM lads will retire after the A, maybe PM will retire after the 121, and maybe we'll go back to the days of being content with orange and black Hymeks. Anything is possible.

But, I doubt that very much.

[Ironroad]

Hi DJ, I doubt we will go back to the days of orange and black Hymeks and I have no doubt that more RTR models of Irish locomotives will be produced in the future. 

I agree that In essence that a market for things Irish has been created by the production of items not previously produced but that is still a very niche and small market. Accordingly there will be long periods between offering from producers and that includes re-runs or entirely new models.  I may be completely wrong but we are probably at least five years away from any new offerings of items that have previously been marketed.   It takes time for the market to develop sufficient appetite to make it worthwhile for a producer.  

[Galteemore]

There are also other wider economic  factors to bear in mind. The events of the past year have left a huge hole in public finances, which will have to be repaired by a variety of means. Public sector employment in GB for one will have a pay freeze and I suspect that discretionary disposable income may take something of a hammering for many of us. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Galteemore

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, Ironroad said:

Hi DJ, I doubt we will go back to the days of orange and black Hymeks and I have no doubt that more RTR models of Irish locomotives will be produced in the future. 

I agree that In essence that a market for things Irish has been created by the production of items not previously produced but that is still a very niche and small market. Accordingly there will be long periods between offering from producers and that includes re-runs or entirely new models.  I may be completely wrong but we are probably at least five years away from any new offerings of items that have previously been marketed.   It takes time for the market to develop sufficient appetite to make it worthwhile for a producer.  

I don't mean that we'll have another loco next year, or even the year after, but within the next few years I'm sure we will.

Hence I mentioned 071's etc going onto the IRM roadmap in the first place.

[BosKonay]

Suffice it to say IRM have an extensive roadmap of new re runs and entirely newly tooled items over the coming years, some of which may even surprise  We are seeing a market growing strongly and our sales have more that tripled year on year. The future is bright for the hobby and Irish outline specifically. 

[DJ Dangerous]

22 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Suffice it to say IRM have an extensive roadmap of new re runs and entirely newly tooled items over the coming years, some of which may even surprise  We are seeing a market growing strongly and our sales have more that tripled year on year. The future is bright for the hobby and Irish outline specifically. 

Oh my God, you're doing the B&I Ferry!!!

[Ironroad]

42 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Oh my God, you're doing the B&I Ferry!!!

LOL, keep saying that DJ and it just might happen.

 

1 hour ago, BosKonay said:

Suffice it to say IRM have an extensive roadmap of new re runs and entirely newly tooled items over the coming years, some of which may even surprise  We are seeing a market growing strongly and our sales have more that tripled year on year. The future is bright for the hobby and Irish outline specifically. 

That's very encouraging and helpful.   Between them. starting with MM and more recently with IRM,  they have they have created a market where there really wasn't one previously and having done so assurances that the appetite for their products that has been created will be met is very important, thank you

PS so tell us more!!!

[murphaph]

2 hours ago, BosKonay said:

Suffice it to say IRM have an extensive roadmap of new re runs and entirely newly tooled items over the coming years, some of which may even surprise  We are seeing a market growing strongly and our sales have more that tripled year on year. The future is bright for the hobby and Irish outline specifically. 

Fantastic stuff. 

I see an awful lot of similarities between Heljan and IRM. Small home market diversified into larger neighbouring market but the home market still being well catered for.

There must be a market to tap into in North America too. Loads of Irish Americans. Loads of model railroaders. Common EMD heritage.