RedRich Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 your right redrich in what you are saying, it was just an idea ,as you know money is hard to get but easy to spend and my idea was to make something not to hard ,not expensive and iron out any crease's in the project. if it worked then go for what people want. walk before you can run??p.s i would still rather a 121 Yes the money is always a stumbling block. It's not as disposable to many as it used to be. Yes the 121 is a smashing prototype and I'm confident we will see a model sooner rather than later. Rich, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 A class has 2 variants (shells) - pre/post rebuilding and 3 liveries for each (6 liveries; Silver,Green,Black,Black/Tan,Supertrain,IR), 2 numbers for each model - 12 models C class has 2 variants (shells) - pre/post rebuilding and 3 liveries for each (6 liveries; Silver,Green,Black,Black/Tan,Supertrain,NIR), 2 numbers for each model - 12 models 121 - depends how realistic you want your model to be, as delivered condition is quite different to black/tan with all the modifications that went on. The 121's initially ran with no walk way handrails among other things. 2 variants with 5 liveries; Grey/Yellow,Black/Tan,Supertrain,IR,IE, 2 of each - 10 models. All would be motorised too, DCC allows double heading, or decent analogue controllers. Nobody moaned about all the 141/181's being motorised when they frequently ran as pairs. Will your crowdfunding get you 1 model (variant) or 2? Also if 200 people on here are mad keen for it, yet a batch of 200 MM 071's are struggling to leave the shelves, this forum is not an indication of the demographic... Its why, as already stated the Murphys 121 model is pending, and will continue to for a while.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 To be honest I can't see a MK1V DVT ever being produced without the correct coaches being available. It's like taking one step forward and two steps back if repaints of UK coaches are used between the 201 and DVT. An example of how to do it right is the De Dietrich stock that D&M have produced. They produced correct DVT, Restaurant, and passenger stock. Rich, Rich, Yes, Rich. I agree you'd need the whole rake. Problem with D&M is the price so if people are having a potential problem here, well that's a harder pill to swallow. If its your modeling period and you have to have them that's one thing. Personally, I think they're beautiful but I cannot justify spending that much on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 a 121 or A class and only if Paddy Murphy was involved. I wouldn't be interested in the other company. It would be a slap in the face for Paddy after all MM have done for Irish modelling. I don't think anyone on here intends this to be an insult to Paddy Murphy. You could easily argue that many of us would not be modeling Irish outline save for the hugely increased interest due to MM models. This was intended to potentially add some more diversity or has been discussed earlier, could be used to bring to the MM 121 onto the market sooner, which might then make way for an other model either through MM or crowd-funded, possibly A class, or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 He is perfectly entitled to make that decision and continue to finance his own business as before. However, if he gave a commitment to produce the 121 then I don't think the crowd should encourage another manufacturer to do it. There are plenty of other projects for the crowd to finance. I think many are waiting on the 121 (including me). I think nobody would seriously want to crowd-fund another 121 unless PM declared his had been shelved indefinitely, in which case the crowd might want to approach PM to go ahead as the funded model. I guess I am hoping for the 121 as soon as it can come out and another model to boot (I suspect many who have "chosen" the A on here may be thinking along these lines) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 A class has 2 variants (shells) - pre/post rebuilding and 3 liveries for each (6 liveries; Silver,Green,Black,Black/Tan,Supertrain,IR), 2 numbers for each model - 12 models C class has 2 variants (shells) - pre/post rebuilding and 3 liveries for each (6 liveries; Silver,Green,Black,Black/Tan,Supertrain,NIR), 2 numbers for each model - 12 models 121 - depends how realistic you want your model to be, as delivered condition is quite different to black/tan with all the modifications that went on. The 121's initially ran with no walk way handrails among other things. 2 variants with 5 liveries; Grey/Yellow,Black/Tan,Supertrain,IR,IE, 2 of each - 10 models. All would be motorised too, DCC allows double heading, or decent analogue controllers. Nobody moaned about all the 141/181's being motorised when they frequently ran as pairs. Will your crowdfunding get you 1 model (variant) or 2? Also if 200 people on here are mad keen for it, yet a batch of 200 MM 071's are struggling to leave the shelves, this forum is not an indication of the demographic... Its why, as already stated the Murphys 121 model is pending, and will continue to for a while.... Going from the N gauge Pendo model with Rapido example a number of tooling variants would be required, so I think in the case of your examples it would be the two variants. Again all this is hypothetical and nothing will probably come from it. It's just an exercise. If someone wished to take the data to the next stage and wider audiences (clubs, retailers etc.) then they can feel free to do so. I hear what you say about the 071s and 121s and this site is only a small part of the overall market. But if someone feels like they can take it further then more power to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) One that did not make it Australian example of crowd funding attempt for an N Gauge loco. €58000 pledged at €350 a skull. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1560185090/n-scale-nswgr-ad60-garratt-locomotive. Edited November 18, 2014 by Mayner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishrailwayman Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Might be a good way to kick start the 121 model (5 liveries) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplate7 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 For me it would have to be: 121 class A class in that order, and to the same quality and standard as Paddy Murphy's 141/181's and 071's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnthebox Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 PS when do's the voting close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 The poll is open for 1 week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelred Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 If a Mark IV DVT was being produced i would want it done right (Directional lights etc) & with the matching coaches otherwise your taking a huge gamble on an inferior model. The bar has been raised by Murphy's Models & i would like to keep it there!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 If a Mark IV DVT was being produced i would want it done right (Directional lights etc) & with the matching coaches otherwise your taking a huge gamble on an inferior model. The bar has been raised by Murphy's Models & i would like to keep it there!!! Actually (I may be alone here) I would like to see Murphy's Models lower the bar a little, NOT in terms of the physical quality but scale back a little say with the inclusion of a speaker. Sure it's nice to have it if you want sound but I would prefer it to be an option to fit one later for those that want it and reduce the cost of the model in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riversuir226 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I think going for a loco as the first attempt is a bad idea, a 4 wheel wagon would be a much better starting point, if that a success a bogie wagon and then do a loco. It might also be an idea to wait till the new year to get the funding together as the run up to xmas is a bit of a drain on the auld bobs and may effect some peoples descision. If a loco was to interest me it d be either a 001 class or a J 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I think going for a loco as the first attempt is a bad idea, a 4 wheel wagon would be a much better starting point, if that a success a bogie wagon and then do a loco. It might also be an idea to wait till the new year to get the funding together as the run up to xmas is a bit of a drain on the auld bobs and may effect some peoples descision.If a loco was to interest me it d be either a 001 class or a J 26 That's eminently sensible - the cement bubble might be a good place to start - popular, unique, and probably required in some numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 That's eminently sensible - the cement bubble might be a good place to start - popular, unique, and probably required in some numbers. I could see a RTR bubble being hugely popular, particularly if the price is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 That's eminently sensible - the cement bubble might be a good place to start - popular, unique, and probably required in some numbers. And a very limited number of colour schemes over the years. 2 or 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 The problem with wagons is volume. You'd have to make several thousand and charge it at a keen enough price. The balance for the small market like Ireland might not suit such a project and it might well be why it has not been done before. On top of that if you were to buy a rake of say, ten wagons, it's more likely to cost more than a loco. There must be a reason that an Irish specific RTR wagon has yet to be done. That said, I'd love a rake or two of wagons at reasonable cost outlay. My eyes are on SSM's flats at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 The 20 foot flat would be an interesting one, being easily adapted to handle containers, bubbles and a range of modifications possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 The 20 foot flat would be an interesting one, being easily adapted to handle containers, bubbles and a range of modifications possible... A modular design like that would stand the best chance of working. But would people buy several thousand of them in a couple of months? It's hard to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRich Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Yes, Rich. I agree you'd need the whole rake. Problem with D&M is the price so if people are having a potential problem here, well that's a harder pill to swallow. If its your modeling period and you have to have them that's one thing. Personally, I think they're beautiful but I cannot justify spending that much on them I also think that the De Dietrich sets are geographically specific and if you are modelling a scene on the Dublin to Belfast line they will look right at home. The D&M models are still for me some of the finest models of Irish prototypes that we have seen. Rich, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterfordtrain Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 As MM is already committed to 121 he probably has drawings etc so if we where putting money up front maybe this model could be brought out sooner . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRich Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 If a bubble cement is going to be produced it should be the complete wagon. Correct chassis, body, ladders walkways, underframe equipment discharge units brake gear, buffers etc. I think it is the one area of the the hobby that is in need of being brought into the mainstream. As a modeler I am more attracted to the freight side of the prototype. The bubbles can have three liveries, weathered versions of the three, single packs, three packs. I'd shell out 200 notes for eight rtr bubbles or beets as opposed to a loco. Can you imagine a wagon to the standard of the GM's. Rich, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/content.php/253-4-Wheel-Bubble-Cement-Wagon-Drawing Would certainly a very pretty little thing be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richrua Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 yes a complete bubble. I would buy several. I have always preferred freight. It would make sense to choose this model as they are popular and unique. However, quite a few folks have put a lot of effort into making detail parts for these models . another side to it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richrua Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 sort of surprises me that Murphy hasnt really done any freight. Or am i wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 For stuff along the lines of the cement bubble, I've always been in favour of the models being supplied un-numbered, but with a sheet of numbers to be applied as required by the (new) owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRich Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 For stuff along the lines of the cement bubble, I've always been in favour of the models being supplied un-numbered, but with a sheet of numbers to be applied as required by the (new) owner. That would actually be a nice idea. If only a decal where a solution would fully dissolve the carrier film leaving just the number applied could be manufactured. I think it could open up a whole new avenue within the hobby. I think Heljan did a similar thing in releasing class 47's unbranded and unnumbered in triple grey many years ago. A lot of people are put off of renumbering models as they are iffy about removing tampo printed numbers should they damage some of the paintwork underneath . Rich, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'd be willing to pay up front for a MM quality RTR: 1) 121 2) A class 3) IE Mk3 EGVs, Buffet, DVT, Mk1 GSV, Dutch Vans and rebuilt Dutch Vans. 4) Tara, bubble cement, hopper ballast, bogie timber wagons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRich Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/content.php/253-4-Wheel-Bubble-Cement-Wagon-Drawing Would certainly a very pretty little thing be I always look at the Bachmann metalair PCA and think how good would it be to have a Bubble produced to that standard. I've seen trains bound for Limerick leaving Waterford with anything form 11 to 22 wagons in a rake. Even the odd beet added, going back to Limerick for repair. Rich, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Congrats lads, 50 punters at 200eu a piece. 10,000eu 1 guy expects 2500 to pay the bills for a month. 4 months design work just paid for, and not a squirt of plastic in a mould. Are we realistic now folks, and have you got this madness out of your system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Congrats lads, 50 punters at 200eu a piece. 10,000eu 1 guy expects 2500 to pay the bills for a month. 4 months design work just paid for, and not a squirt of plastic in a mould. Are we realistic now folks, and have you got this madness out of your system? Let it pan out, GD. This poll is open for another 5 days. Some of the modelers do not frequent this site on a daily basis like you and I. That being said, if they don't visit before then end of the poll, they're unlikely to support this project either. Either way, this has been set in motion and will provide some data on what has been discussed on several threads before. Even if not another modeler voted yes to this, it means that there is a group who would likely also put money up for a rake of 6-7 of a desirable smaller model such as a bubble or beet or Tara at 30-35eu per wagon=210eu per punter with a production run of 300-350 wagons…… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riversuir226 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Dj models kickstarter for the class 71 £150,000 = 1200 models @ £125 each Converting it to euro €187,000 = 1200 models @€156 each. The max order i can see for any loco is approx the 500 mark which is €374 per model Even at an order of 750 its still €249 per loco, 1000 @ €187. The above example has both a retailer and a model company behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Dj models kickstarter for the class 71£150,000 = 1200 models @ £125 each Converting it to euro €187,000 = 1200 models @€156 each. The max order i can see for any loco is approx the 500 mark which is €374 per model Even at an order of 750 its still €249 per loco, 1000 @ €187. The above example has both a retailer and a model company behind it. So you're saying that the smallest amount that could be invested for a manufacturer to start something is STG150,000, correct? and all the number are based off of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Info on the Kernow DJ models Class 71. http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/page/74/DJ_Models_Class_71_Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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