Mk 2 Supertrain Coaches

[Noel]

They look fine models and I therefore would not knock them, especially with MMs excellent track record. It's hard to tell from web photos if the colour is correct or not as per glendergs query. Clearly there are plenty of folk delighted to see these mk2d's in super train livery. Personally, and this is just me, I never particularly liked that livery on the prototypes and and preferred IE/IR tip-pex livery, so won't be buying any, but that is not being negative nor suggesting they are not superb models. Just a personal consumer choice, I simply preferred the later livery even though I travelled more on the ST myself.

 

I've spent a kings ransom on other excellent MM products in the past 5 months, so I'm a big fan and delighted more Irish modelling stock is available even if its not of interest to me personally. I hope folks who've been waiting for these coaches enjoy them.

 

PS: On price its worth pointing out that the euro has fallen significantly, these products are manufactured outside the euro zone, and labour costs in China have risen over the past 24 months. Nobody likes price increases, but the new 201s have gone up as well. Oil prices continue to crash, so what we save in car fuel and home heating this year we can put into our hobby Tongue in cheek

Edited January 20, 2015 by Noel

[Killucan2]

Exactly Rebelred

The coaches are not in the shops yet and the usual knockers have their knives out already, Jesus wept!

It really gets on my goat.

It kills me to agree with Blaine but he has hit the nail on the head, pony up or shut up

Dave, usual knockers? some people might not have the extra for these coaches after the last batch of 201s,I will b collecting all mine when in Dublin again!!!!

[flange lubricator]

Exactly Rebelred

The coaches are not in the shops yet and the usual knockers have their knives out already, Jesus wept!

It really gets on my goat.

It kills me to agree with Blaine but he has hit the nail on the head, pony up or shut up

 

I had been labouring under the misapprehension that this is a discussion fourm but perhaps not, I also be buying all the Supertrain Mk2d .

[ak425]

They look fine models and I therefore would not knock them, especially with MMs excellent track record. It's hard to tell from web photos if the colour is correct or not as per glendergs query. Clearly there are plenty of folk delighted to see these mk2d's in super train livery. Personally, and this is just me, I never particularly liked that livery on the prototypes and and preferred IE/IR tip-pex livery, so won't be buying any, but that is not being negative nor suggesting they are not superb models. Just a personal consumer choice, I simply preferred the later livery even though I travelled more on the ST myself.

 

I've spent a kings ransom on other excellent MM products in the past 5 months, so I'm a big fan and delighted more Irish modelling stock is available even if its not of interest to me personally. I hope folks who've been waiting for these coaches enjoy them.

 

PS: On price its worth pointing out that the euro has fallen significantly, these products are manufactured outside the euro zone, and labour costs in China have risen over the past 24 months. Nobody likes price increases, but the new 201s have gone up as well. Oil prices continue to crash, so what we save in car fuel and home heating this year we can put into our hobby Tongue in cheek

 

 

 

Fully agree with all you have said Noel. I have let all the previous superb Mark 2d liveries go by me as my preference is the original supertrain livery. We all have our preferences and thankfully we have all had the choice to get what we all want. Like all the locos and coaches that has gone before, a huge well done to Paddy Murphy. How times have changed since my Lima class 33 and Mark 2s in the '70s.

[Garfield]

Is criticism good or bad? There are those who are happy with models as they are, then there are those who strive to make things more authentic

 

At the end of the day its a model, Im personally disappointed that there is not a miniature internal combustion engine inside each locomotive, the toilets dont work in the coaches, or that you cant prepare a meal in the restaurant.... They are models...

 

Is criticism good or bad? That depends on whether it's warranted or not...

[josefstadt]

While €56 might seem expensive compared to some British models, which would no doubt have huge demand, it is not out of line with some of the current European offerings on sale Britain (Roco OBB "City Shuttle" Driving Coach - €77.28, Railtop ÖBB Luggage Van - €71.60; Railtop DB Sleeping Car - €70.63; ACME FS 'Gran Conforto' 1st Class Coach - €58.16) (prices from the in C&M Models of Carlisle website). The relatively small runs of Irish stock will inevitably push up prices somewhat and, IMHO, the quoted price isn't excessive.

[StevieB]

The price is not out of line with quality carriages made by Hornby and Bachmann, and they are produced in much larger numbers.

 

Stephen

[BosKonay]

€56 for a top drawer, rtr model of a 'relatively' obscure irish prototype (in the sense all irish models are 'obscure' in volume terms) is a pretty good deal all things considered! Respraying something UK outline would end up costing a lot more!

[Warbonnet]

While €56 might seem expensive compared to some British models, which would no doubt have huge demand, it is not out of line with some of the current European offerings on sale Britain (Roco OBB "City Shuttle" Driving Coach - €77.28, Railtop ÖBB Luggage Van - €71.60; Railtop DB Sleeping Car - €70.63; ACME FS 'Gran Conforto' 1st Class Coach - €58.16) (prices from the in C&M Models of Carlisle website). The relatively small runs of Irish stock will inevitably push up prices somewhat and, IMHO, the quoted price isn't excessive.

 

 

Exactly.

[Garfield]

While €56 might seem expensive compared to some British models, which would no doubt have huge demand, it is not out of line with some of the current European offerings on sale Britain (Roco OBB "City Shuttle" Driving Coach - €77.28, Railtop ÖBB Luggage Van - €71.60; Railtop DB Sleeping Car - €70.63; ACME FS 'Gran Conforto' 1st Class Coach - €58.16) (prices from the in C&M Models of Carlisle website). The relatively small runs of Irish stock will inevitably push up prices somewhat and, IMHO, the quoted price isn't excessive.

 

EPM are producing a SNCF three-coach refurbished 'RRR' push-pull set which costs €249... which works out at €83 per coach. While Murphy's prices have increased, they're still some way off that!

[Noel]

Agree, the euro has gone south against all major currencies and labour costs have increased in the far east. These products are targeted at a collectors market, not the toy train segment. None of us like price increases at a time of deflation in the eurozone, but its just economics as these models are manufactured outside the eurozone. Its €6 extra per coach, so for a rake of six it will cost an additional €36 which is what one will save on petrol/diesel in only two or three weeks with dropping oil prices.

[RedRich]

I can understand the comparisons with European prices and the current exchange rate, also the rising manufacturing costs in China. As has been put forward the extra cost can be squared out over a period of time if some spare change can be saved. I always compare the relevant model to the prototype it is modelled on and not other manufacturers products and their costs. I have bought five MM MK11's in the IE livery and intend to add a Composite and Super Standard when they are released in that livery. I have ponied up and made my choice and I say that gives me a right to comment on what I consider the pros and cons of the MM MK11's. There are lot's of after market products available to tart up the as bought model and take it up a notch or two to give it a lot of kudos. The one disappointment that I have always had about the MM MK11's is that the windows are positioned higher on the bodyside when compared to the prototype. The top of the window surround should be just over nine inches below the gutter strip. I worked for a time for IE and had the good luck of seeing the MK11's every day and it stood out to me when I first saw pics of the models. Bowing sides on the EGV can be sorted out with some work. In fairness MM made sure that the hinges on the corridor side of the EGV were corrected for the Galway EGV and should not go without mention.

 

My own personal feeling is, these models aren't jaw dropping or perfect. No matter what PM has done for the hobby, and what he has done has been immense. These models are like a lot of school reports, good but could have been better. The saving grace for me is, I have 18 MM locos, and 10 MM Craven coaches that I am extremely happy with. Thank God we live in a democracy where freedom to express our own opinions is a right for every person, and this group also follows that. Everyone has an opinion and should be allowed to express that opinion, more so if they have bought the actual model.

 

Rich,

[rebelred]

Je suis Paddy!!

[Railer]

Thank's Red for the info about the Mk2s. They always seemed a bit off to me and I could never put my finger on it. To me it looked like the sides ran too low to the soul bar. But the windows being too high makes sense to me now. It does throw the shape off compared the Bachmann Mk2A/Bs bottom window level which looks more like the real thing. Suppose at this stage it would cost too much for a new side moulds with the windows lowered.

[StevieB]

Given that it is the same mk 2d body for both the IE/Galway and the new super train liveried versions, I don't recall the howls of complaint re window levels in the bodyside when they forest came, or am I missing something here?

 

Stephen

[Warbonnet]

Given that it is the same mk 2d body for both the IE/Galway and the new super train liveried versions, I don't recall the howls of complaint re window levels in the bodyside when they forest came, or am I missing something here?

 

Stephen

 

It was mentioned on the previous edition of the site when they first came out.

[RedRich]

Given that it is the same mk 2d body for both the IE/Galway and the new super train liveried versions, I don't recall the howls of complaint re window levels in the bodyside when they forest came, or am I missing something here?

 

Stephen

 

Stephen I respect your opinion. I made mention of the windows in my post. I wasn't howling or complaining, I was referring to an area of the model which let it down when compared to the prototype and other areas of the model which look fine. I still bought an EGV, Restaurant, and 3 Standards regardless of the issue with the windows. I am always willing to support manufacturers who bring something new to the table, and have always done that.

 

I think that a picture is always the best way to put across an opinion that is being discussed.

 

 

It would have been just as easy to get the issue right as it was to get it wrong. However it wasn't right. It won't make a difference for 95% of the forum who will still support MM and I am one of those 95% that have supported MM in this venture. There is nothing wrong with a bit of healthy topical debating once it is civilized and that all concerned in the topic are allowed to offer their opinion.

 

Rich,

[StevieB]

I've just looked at the previous edition of the site and see what you mean - obviously the windows are still a great concern but did the warping of the sides ever get dealt with?

 

Stephen

[Warbonnet]

I've just looked at the previous edition of the site and see what you mean - obviously the windows are still a great concern but did the warping of the sides ever get dealt with?

 

Stephen

 

I've done nothing to mine yet but it just seems to be the genny that was affected. My standards were fine. A bit of plaskitcard may brace it out. Hopefully!

[RedRich]

I've just looked at the previous edition of the site and see what you mean - obviously the windows are still a great concern but did the warping of the sides ever get dealt with?

 

Stephen

 

Stephen as Fran has said it was the EGV which suffered worst from the warping. It could be that there is no interior in the EGV (except the generator rooms and Guards area) whereas the Standards suffer little warping or enough to cause concern. The Restaurant suffers from some warping in the kitchen area of the coach. The warping can be sorted out by adding bulkheads or fillets of plastic card in the coach. The bulkheads or fillets won't be seen when the roof is re-attached. The warping could also be down to when the models are released from the mould and are still to hot.

 

Rich,

[Blu Bianco]

Does anyone have any further news on when they are going to arrive in stock in the shops?

 

I was expecting something circa €56 and as previously pointed out, given the Euro's endless fall and the rising production costs in China then I can't say I was surprised. Been good if they were a bit cheaper but thats just the way it is currently.

[WRENNEIRE]

Could be as soon as Saturday, but probably Monday just to be safe

Not as many as previously made so some may run out sooner than before

[heirflick]

I wonder would Grahams take a few green shield stamps towards one?

[Broithe]

I wonder would Grahams take a few green shield stamps towards one?

 

Or Embassy vouchers...?

 

[Blu Bianco]

I wonder would Grahams take a few green shield stamps towards one?

Or Embassy vouchers...?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16911[/ATTACH]

 

The ole' spirit of barter hasn't faded away just yet it seems........

[Glenderg]

I was expecting something circa €56 and as previously pointed out, given the Euro's endless fall and the rising production costs in China then I can't say I was surprised. Been good if they were a bit cheaper but thats just the way it is currently.

 

The contract with the chinese manufacturer was signed many many months ago. Nothing to do with Euro's recent rise and fall unfortunately.

[Railer]

Could be as soon as Saturday, but probably Monday just to be safe

Not as many as previously made so some may run out sooner than before

 

Considering how fast the orange roof Mk2s vanished better hop on these quick. I see the recently Galway EGV is already is short supply and hard to find in places. Have to get one of them too.

[Georgeconna]

In the shop I worked they were on the shelf for a good while but eventually went over a period of time. I think there is still some galway stock lying around too on my last visit.

[Noel]

Considering how fast the orange roof Mk2s vanished better hop on these quick. I see the recently Galway EGV is already is short supply and hard to find in places. Have to get one of them too.

 

The Galway EGVs make good donors for respray into IE/IR orange or black roof Mk2d's. If the shade of orange on the super train coaches is the same as the IE/IR Mk2's then the ST EGVs may make even better donors for respray into IE/IR orange or black roof.

[Railer]

The Galway EGVs make good donors for respray into IE/IR orange or black roof Mk2d's. If the shade of orange on the super train coaches is the same as the IE/IR Mk2's then the ST EGVs may make even better donors for respray into IE/IR orange or black roof.

 

That begs the question, where did all the orange and black roof EGVs end up that people are having to get Galways resprayed. If anything, standards should be in the shortest of supply due to people naturally buying more of them to make up rakes.

[Noel]

That begs the question, where did all the orange and black roof EGVs end up that people are having to get Galways resprayed. If anything, standards should be in the shortest of supply due to people naturally buying more of them to make up rakes.

 

Interesting question. Wonder if the EGVs were produced in the same proportionate quantity as the other coach types in each of the former Mk2d production runs? They may have been introduced later. Btw, does anybody know if all MM Mk2d's were specially tooled for MM (i.e. new moulds) or were existing bachmann BR Mk2e injection moulds painted in IE/IR liveries? The EGVs and Restaurants must have been new tooling.

[Mayner]

That begs the question, where did all the orange and black roof EGVs end up that people are having to get Galways resprayed. If anything, standards should be in the shortest of supply due to people naturally buying more of them to make up rakes.

 

Possibly a higher proportion of buyers are collectors who want one or two of each new release rather than modellers who want a complete rake of coaches.

[Warbonnet]

Interesting question. Wonder if the EGVs were produced in the same proportionate quantity as the other coach types in each of the former Mk2d production runs? They may have been introduced later. Btw, does anybody know if all MM Mk2d's were specially tooled for MM (i.e. new moulds) or were existing bachmann BR Mk2e injection moulds painted in IE/IR liveries? The EGVs and Restaurants must have been new tooling.

 

Murphys Mark II aicons were completely his own tooling. EGVs probably sold more as people would've wanted them for their lima rakes.

[rebelred]

I spent nearly a year trying to hunt down a Mark 2 EGV with no luck eventually ended up getting an excellent respray by Graham, very rare coach to find indeed!!

[Marks Models]

Hi Lads

 

The Mk2's have landed in Marks Models and are in Greenogue and online now. Will be in Hawkins St. on Monday and Cork on Tuesday.

http://www.marksmodels.com/?cid=51

 

Mark