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heirflick

IRISH SEMAPHORE SIGNALS

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How's the men?  Question for ye that I need a bit of help on.  Going back to the days of the beautiful semaphore signals, which made the railways more alive - I can only remember the signal posts being a round post, with the only exception I saw wad at Malahide signal cabin.  Mullingar were all round, as was Edgeworth town and Longford.  Was there square posts used around the net?  Pics please if possible and many thanks in advance,  Seamus

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36 minutes ago, heirflick said:

How's the men?  Question for ye that I need a bit of help on.  Going back to the days of the beautiful semaphore signals, which made the railways more alive - I can only remember the signal posts being a round post, with the only exception I saw wad at Malahide signal cabin.  Mullingar were all round, as was Edgeworth town and Longford.  Was there square posts used around the net?  Pics please if possible and many thanks in advance,  Seamus

Growing up in NI on the NCC I only ever remember square posts - think GNRI was the same. I suspect most Irish lines had square or rectangular posts until tubular steel ones came in.

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Very much so. In the 32 counties, square (and the occasional lattice) were absolutely the norm always. 

CIE introduces the round versions which started becoming common on the CIE network in the 1960s, when (also) the reflective surfaces started replacing red (NOT orange) and white paint on homes, and yellow and black paint on distants.

Lower quadrant signals were universal (whereas upper were in Britain usually), with the NCC alone using lower quadrant “Somersault” types. 

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I confess I never liked CIE round post prototypes, always preferred solid square and lattice signal posts. Just me I guess. Probably caused by building ratio signal kits in the 70s which were nearly always square, and also caused by period drama on BBC/ITV which always seemed to have square post signals

Edited by Noel
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Larne Harbour had the only upper quadrant signals in Ireland. These were installed in 1933 by the LMSNCC when the station was remodelled. 

The GNR used unpainted round 'telegraph pole' type posts for many of it's signals. 

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The GNR used the telegraph pole types alongside "square" ones, in many locations. Mostly, telegraph pole ones were out'n'about, with "square" ones mostly in stations - but this was not exclusive.

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1 hour ago, David Holman said:

Saxby and Farmer equipment used by some lines, not least SLNCR.

Indeed - and the SLNC had at least one round post signal, achieved by mounting a semaphore arm on a telegraph pole! 

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I must consult jhb171Senior's photos of Enniskillen.....and the NCC.....

The SLNCR, and nearby Donegal railways, had all manner of oddball signals, some very home-made looking. I recall seeing two photos of strange looking shortish posts on signals on the Cavan and Leitrim somewhere.

Edited by jhb171achill
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Some photos of signals in athy and a sad sight in tuam also a  photo of jim bayle beside semaphore signals in enniscorthy whose first anniversary was the end of may and is sadly missed

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Here are two examples from my collection. The colour photo is the down home and loop signal at Kilcock station from the early 1970's.  The B & W is of the up loop starter at the same station in 1974. Hope this informs the discussion. Cheers. Eamonn

1400_001 edit 1.jpg

1377_001 edit 1.jpg

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It depends on the time period of the model. Timber square post signals would have been very common, all over, 100 years ago. There was a fair amount of lattice post signals, particularly on the DSE. The GNR seem to have used the telegraph pole in their later years, as an economy measure, as they don't seem to feature in earlier photos (but someone's bound to prove me wrong on that now). There was a small number of concrete post signals. The GSR introduced tubular metal signals and CIE continued, so with renewals, these became most common on CIE lines.

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14 minutes ago, heirflick said:

Found this pic online - beautiful set of signals from way back on the Galway line at Mullingar...

Mullingar-Railway-Station.jpg

Possibly MGWR signal Seamus. Signals controlling the down running line from the platform end to Mullingar West box and connection to the loco depot.

The Midland appears to have introduced concrete signal posts at some stage before the Amalgamation (signal beside the loco shed Loughrea http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway Stations L/Loughrea/IrishRailwayStations.html#Loughrea_20080327_008_CC_JA.jpg).

Besides the DSER the  GSR  used lattice posts possibly to replace timber posts at some stations on the Midland (Up starting signal Loughrea)

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NCC wooden square post 'Somersault' at ANTRIM somewhat different to the ex GNRI wooden square posts on their branch into the station. The Crossing gate design looks interesting too.

Ernie

246 Antrim N end inc down starter Easter 1963 (Mike Shannon)  246.jpg

Edited by Irishswissernie
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The DSER appeared to favour the lattice post signals on the line.

 

1272788957_WicklowUpSignal1.thumb.jpg.0dd8f7e3da5483ca2da3defae2de18e0.jpg

This one being from the up platform with the shunting signal for the headshunt.  

They had some very interesting rotating shunting signals, both ground and post mounted.  The signal on the post is the same type as below.

1643374429_GroundSignal1.thumb.jpg.6b8c470b138e97251b4c28ee64f6d93b.jpg

930578373_GroundSignal2.thumb.jpg.7477f0a2ce126e65ff75b6f97016ac69.jpg

The post and ground signals are preserved on the down platform.

 

Ken

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Very interesting thread indeed. Thanks @heirflick.

So regarding the color of the signal themselves does this sound correct?

Initially home signals were Red-White Red (RWR) (from post outwards). Distants were chevroned Yellow-Black-Yellow (YBY).

When paint was replaced by reflective surfaces, was this a paint or plastic and was the red replaced by Orange at that point (OWO) or did it remain RWR?

Was the Orange a replacement color or did the original red paint or reflective material fade (sorry to revive memories of debates on shades of orange and weathering again) ?

At what point did the signal become 'tipped' in Red (OWR)

Apologies in advance for the alphabet soup

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4 hours ago, DiveController said:

Very interesting thread indeed. Thanks @heirflick.

So regarding the color of the signal themselves does this sound correct?

Initially home signals were Red-White Red (RWR) (from post outwards). Distants were chevroned Yellow-Black-Yellow (YBY).

When paint was replaced by reflective surfaces, was this a paint or plastic and was the red replaced by Orange at that point (OWO) or did it remain RWR?

Was the Orange a replacement color or did the original red paint or reflective material fade (sorry to revive memories of debates on shades of orange and weathering again) ?

At what point did the signal become 'tipped' in Red (OWR)

Apologies in advance for the alphabet soup

As far as I know CIE & the GNR (I) never used yellow semaphore arms. Distant signal arms were originally red throughout the UK, yellow may have been introduced on the British mainland at some stage after the the 1923 grouping.

CIE introduced a day-glo red during the 60s which tended to bleach out to orange.

Some relics from the Kingscourt branch 

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1428322359_CIEDistantSignal26062019_0001.thumb.jpg.9698de87885cf671086d405c6d34af1b.jpg

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The second Kingscourt signal is a rare bird now, manufactured by Courtney and Stephens iirc, likely made under licence from the Railway Signal Co. and missing its spiky ball final, similar examples were to be seen on former GSWR, CBSCR and Macroom lines up to the Fifties.

20190626_093325.jpg

Edited by minister_for_hardship
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3 hours ago, Mayner said:

As far as I know CIE & the GNR (I) never used yellow semaphore arms. Distant signal arms were originally red throughout the UK, yellow may have been introduced on the British mainland at some stage after the the 1923 grouping.

The GNR(I) converted all distants to yellow on a line by line basis (in the early 1940's if memory serves), including those south of the border. CIE repainted some back to red! NCC and BCDR also used yellow distants.

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1 hour ago, minister_for_hardship said:

The second Kingscourt signal is a rare bird now, manufactured by Courtney and Stephens iirc, likely made under licence from the Railway Signal Co. and missing its spiky ball final, similar examples were to be seen on former GSWR, CBSCR and Macroom lines up to the Fifties.

Courtney & Stephens (Courtney, Stephens & Bailey) made signals, interlocking frames and cabins on their own account, probably the only Irish contractor to do so. They seem to have later become agents for the Gloucester Wagon Co. (who expanded into signalling to supplement rolling stock construction income) in Ireland. The Railway Signal Co. was a later creation of George Edwards who left the GWCo., along with his patents, and set up on his own account, leading RSCo. material and GWCo. material to have a similar appearance.

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On 6/12/2019 at 12:05 PM, Irishswissernie said:

NCC wooden square post 'Somersault' at ANTRIM somewhat different to the ex GNRI wooden square posts on their branch into the station. The Crossing gate design looks interesting too.

Ernie

246 Antrim N end inc down starter Easter 1963 (Mike Shannon)  246.jpg

That's an example of an underslung post. More often seen on the other side of the Irish Sea.

In model form, SSM produce suitable posts and arms for GSWR/CIE pattern. Failing that, you could also use the Stevens & Co., or Saxby & Farmer spectacle plates produced by Model Signal Engineering

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First post on here! I'll be honest and admit, I'm not modelling Irish railways myself but I do build rather a lot of signals in 7mm scale. I have very happy memories of touring the CIE system back in the 80s and 90s when there were many and wonderful semaphores about. Courtesy of a Tyrconnel Models etch, this is my take on a typical stop signal. It's servo operated and LED lit, using the 5v feed (plus a 330ohm resistor) to the servo to power the led.

Cheers

Jon F.

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IMG_20200703_113657716_HDR.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Jon is a legend in the 7mm Signal world. You can see why......

.

Edited by Galteemore

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20 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

7 MM?
Do you do any 4MM?

Sadly my eyesight and sausage fingers can't cope with anything smaller than 7mm..

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