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MURPHY MODELS ... VIVA LA SPAIN....

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burnthebox
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14 minutes ago, burnthebox said:

Hi GUYS. HAVE A LOOK AT THIS SELECTION FROM SPAIN....VERY NICE...! 
BTB

https://www.ebay.ie/sch/elimperiodelhobby/m.html?item=313053283448&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Great find Paul. Good prices too. Fortunately I have collected enough Cravens to run a decent time table. The super train Mk2d's are a very keen price @ only €35ea. And Free Postage makes these exceptional value.

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34 minutes ago, gm171 kk said:

It's a shop's ebay account. They also have a website. 

It's often worth seeing if you can go direct to a shop's own website, rather than their eBay shop, they need to allow for the fees when selling via a third party...

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Troops
If it sounds to good to be true it usually is
Some investigations done by PM and also some of the other owners of some of the Continental items being sold by this retailer showed that
they were supplied to our friend in Spain by the original firm that PM and said other owners were using in China to manufacture their wares
So PM paid for and got X amount of stock but the manufacturer made more of the items and held them back to sell them at a later date.
So in essence these coaches and locos are the property of PM
To the best of my knowledge there may be some law suits as a result of this and you may have to give your "cheap" coaches back to PM

Dont mess with Murphy!!!

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Yes one of the hazards of contracting manufacture in China particularly for smaller businesses. Spend a little time on ebay and many things on offer directly from Chinese vendors will seem suspicious albeit in this case they seem to have supplied a Spanish retailer. However, even if a lawsuit is successful I doubt it could be pursued to the level of the customers, it being more likely the terms would be that that the owners/designers of the products would be awarded compensation for those sales. Although I suspect enforcing a judgement might prove difficult, not to mention the dilemma faced by those contracting manufacture of finding alternative producers. 

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8 hours ago, burnthebox said:

Hi guys, here’s a link to what I think is the web site which as GM. said is the original...! 
BTB

https://www.elimperiodelhobby.com/escala-176/6465-murphy-models-vagon-irish-cravens-buffet-snack-con-librea-naranja-y-negra.html

Was astonished to hear about this. Wow peat briquettes only €110 and Cravens €30. As DB says if something looks too good to be true it generally is. Sorry to hear this sort of thing goes on with some Chinese businesses. As to lawsuits in China, good luck with that, water and oil don't seem to mix too well. I hope IRM have their eye's dotted and tea's crossed with the subcontractors they hire. Hope this does not affect PM adversely and its just a once off. So Dave @WRENNEIRE legally speaking does that mean anybody who bought and paid for one of these models from Spain in the past few days is in a stickey position? Should the items be posted to MM and details passed on to GNECB? Raises a separate but curious question, who owns the IP of the original MM/Bachmann 141/181 models? Is it PM or Bachmann or the subcontractor that produced them for Bachmann? Nasty stuff, hope it gets started out. Wouldn't want to open one of my cement bubbles in future to discover a hidden fortune cookie inside it.

Edited by Noel
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And they are still making a few quid no doubt out of the €110 notes. Pity there were not near that mark in the 1st place :)

It is bad form in all fairness. I am regulary dealing with those tosspots in China to try to get PPE into Ireland, The bastards are trying to ride the situation and capitalise on the cash windfall bigtime with rises of €3.50 /kg for airfright from a quote last last week. They are really beginng to P1ss me off with thier business practices.

 

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First, to restate the @Wrenneire point, if it looks too good to be true, it usually is. That said, we've all been there, except we are unusually astute.

Needless to say, no-one will get anywhere challenging as corrupt a system as the Chinese one can be. (It has many good points so I don't condemn everyone).

It was a standing joke in my Hong Kong days to see people walking about in the UK in very expensive, badly made, "Designer" clothes - when you went into China (as I did often) you saw the least well-off folk in gear with all the Big Names on them. We used to smile at Chinese guys who walked around in SUITS  with the Fashion Chain's label still on the outside of the sleeve, to show off.

Don't misunderstand me, the ordinary people were lovely - nosey, staring at you but as helpful and kind as you could imagine - as is the case almost everywhere - it's the politicians who muck it all up.

Edited by leslie10646
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I spoke with Jose, the owner, based in Madrid.

He is like a Spanish Chris Dyer; online sales, fairs, events etc.

He bought a job lot from somebody else going out of business and priced it to sell fast, as he has staff and overheads to pay.

Madrid has around half of our Covid-19 cases and is suffering more than anywhere else in the country, and he says that a lot of shops are going bust.

He is not a regular Murphy stockist and has no plans to become one, but will buy job lots if he thinks he can shift them.

 

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53 minutes ago, NIR said:

I just wish someone would discover a job lot of baby GMs in some obscure place, the only GMs I care for.

Agreed, still my favourites. Understand. I was perhaps very fortunate to return to the hobby a few years ago and managed to pick up four baby GMs from Chris Dyer for €118 and the rest from eBay when prices seemed fairer before the increases we've seen on eBay these days. The thing to remember is collect to enjoy and run, not stored out of sight till death, discovered in boxes by a family member, long after we've left the terminus. :) 

A friend of mine has a theory that as soon as the 121 and A class locos hit the streets a flood of 141/181s will hit the market by; either collectors offloading stuff they bought when they were launched in the futile hope of selling them for a big killing like a small no of the Lima 201s that fetched insane prices, or just model collectors who thought they'd go up in value and may now want to fund 121 and A class purchases. I'm not convinced of the theory there is a hidden cache of them buried out there in the market. Only time will tell.

Perhaps someday they may get re-run, as the tooling and CAD already exist. Not sure how Bachmann figure in that possibility as it was produced under their brand and factory for Murphy Models. I hope still MM own the IP and tooling.

MMbox.png.1710a0bd3065da8b1b30e50b4c9b8207.png

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Sounds like you friend is right. 

The price of Rtr stuff now a days is sometimes outragous. I remember my first model show and seeing the a 2-6-0 train set was €300! One thing I love about the new A class is the price and if they make a C class I will be getting it as they were used on branch lines.

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11 minutes ago, Noel said:

 

Perhaps someday they may get re-run, as the tooling and CAD already exist. Not sure how Bachmann figure in that possibility as it was produced under their brand and factory for Murphy Models. I hope still MM own the IP and tooling.

MMbox.png.1710a0bd3065da8b1b30e50b4c9b8207.png

I imagine a repeat would depend on demand reaching or exceeding Kader's/Bachmann minimum quantity for a production run. Kader's minimum production run may be a lot higher than the factories that supply commissioners like IRM, Kernow and Hattons, as they tend to have focused in recent years on high volume production for the mainstream end of the American and UK market.

While Murphy Models are likely to own the IP for the drawings & information supplied to Bachmann UK/Kader. Kader are likely to own the IP to the tooling as it is their design and are unlikely to agree to releasing the tooling to competitor to produce a small run of models. Kader retained the IP for models produced for Palitoy and Replica Railways iin the 70s & 80s which formed the core of the Bachmann Branchlines range in the 1990s. 

Some OEM models produced by Kader for commissioners like the E-R Models Baldwin Sharknose N & HO scale diesel have re-appeared in the Bachmann range when the original commissioner folded.

 

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Dont quote me on this but if I remember correctly when MM had the Moguls produced by Bachmann and the accompanying LMS coaches, Bachmann US later produced the "Irish Railway Set" using the models MM had commissioned albeit with different running numbers. He learned a tough lesson there and has since held the IP for all further models. 

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Interesting John( @Mayner ). As far as I am aware MM produced 17 variants originally with 500ea so a total of 8500 baby GMs exist out there in homes or collections. One of the main retailers here once told me when the MM baby GMs were first launched at the height of the celtic tiger he had some punters come into his shop and buy 4 of each and every running number. 😱That's over €8800 for toy trains. He had no view on what was behind their thinking or their motive. What's the point in having more rolling stock than can fit on your layout anyway. Less is more, layouts need what we call whitespace and plenty of unoccupied track. I'm as guilty as anybody but not 68 locos of the same class??? I confess I've ordered more than one IRM A class but not every running number. And 3 x 121s will probably be enough for the layout.

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Cause everyone thought later down the line you would be getting 300 notes a loco like the Lima 201 in thier Heyday but they are still @ 120-150 notes.

I must admit Seamus Grahams did a good deal which tempted me where you bouught a few and got one Free, Cant remember the exact details. What I am going do with 14 + Babies is beyond me TBH. I did at the time think I was gonna concentrate on the Irish stuff  as OO only as I had a good bit of N gauge UK but then the sound came out in OO and I delved into the UK stuff. Now O is calling, 009 is calling and German stuff (Harz stuff anyhow!)

Gonna be much more sensible with the 121's

 

 

 

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Just now, Midland Man said:

It's amazing the price of model engines now a days. A BR 4-6-0 in O gauge can cost €2000! Was there ever a time where there were small company's sell hand made models/kits in Ireland and will it ever come again?

If it's 2k it's hand made brass kit territory. RTR O gauge is a lot less than that.

Leinster models sold O gauge kits here out of Monck Place. Wasn't a huge amount of detail on them but could be dressed up to look reasonable with additonal parts. Kits are still sold by SSM as well as companies in England. 

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17 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

It's amazing the price of model engines now a days. A BR 4-6-0 in O gauge can cost €2000! Was there ever a time where there were small company's sell hand made models/kits in Ireland and will it ever come again?

I found receipts and invoices for BR outline stock I bought in the late 1980s and early 1990s, 4-6-0 tender locos were about £40 and coaches a staggering £15 with 2 axle wagons about £4-5. Feeling rather fortunate that I got my Craven inventory for €30-35ea.

26 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

Cause everyone thought later down the line you would be getting 300 notes a loco like the Lima 201 in thier Heyday but they are still @ 120-150 notes.

I must admit Seamus Grahams did a good deal which tempted me where you bouught a few and got one Free, Cant remember the exact details. What I am going do with 14 + Babies is beyond me TBH. I did at the time think I was gonna concentrate on the Irish stuff  as OO only as I had a good bit of N gauge UK but then the sound came out in OO and I delved into the UK stuff. Now O is calling, 009 is calling and German stuff (Harz stuff anyhow!)

Gonna be much more sensible with the 121's

Less the model railway spending gene needs a vaccine. WMRC's incredible O gauge facilities very nearly lured me into O gauge, but I stood firm and averted my lust for 7mm GWR pannier tank and a couple of wagons to shunt.

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Comparing prices across decades, you really need to rate them by "Hours of work required" a lot of stuff is cheaper now, in terms of how much time you need to work to pay for it.

And there's a lot more to consume your money now, things that didn't even exist back then.

 

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2 hours ago, Midland Man said:

It's amazing the price of model engines now a days. A BR 4-6-0 in O gauge can cost €2000! Was there ever a time where there were small company's sell hand made models/kits in Ireland and will it ever come again?

Black 5 popping out RTR for £1000 sponds,  only the cost 7 large OO locos really. Seems to be all the wrong Railway companies they produce.....

https://www.ellisclarktrains.co.uk/collections/04-locos/products/darstaed-d11-16-7mm-finescale-o-gauge-stanier-class-5-4-6-0-black-5-lms-lined-45428-with-welded-tender-pre-order

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