B101 sulzer removed

[K801]

I wonder why 106 been the last serviced was not saved instead of 103

[Dead Kennedy]

JB, I thought the image was from the RCTS photographic archive but cannot find it. It is most likely a Colour-rail slide.

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Dead Kennedy said:

5 hours ago, Dead Kennedy said:

JB, I thought the image was from the RCTS photographic archive but cannot find it. It is most likely a Colour-rail slide.

Ah, OK, thanks!

[Dead Kennedy]

On 13/12/2020 at 4:43 PM, K801 said:

I wonder why 106 been the last serviced was not saved instead of 103

As far as I know 106 failed either later that day or the following day following the IRRS trip. It could be that 103 was still operable having pulled weed spray trains?

 

[jhb171achill]

106 failed just after that IRRS trip. She was detailed to do some other duty the following day but didn't turn a wheel in traffic again. Great pity!

I think I remember hearing at the time that there was an opinion among the ITG people, or Inchicore, or both, that 103 would make a better long-term project, but it's that long ago now!

ONE story doing the rounds in the mid-70s was that CIE had considered, or were considering, a "transplant"-like programme to put GM engines in them instead of buying the new 071s.

THAT would have been interesting.

[Warbonnet]

On 10/12/2020 at 9:22 PM, Dead Kennedy said:

Would be brilliant if IRM could add tbis very special locomotive to their 'to do' list. Is there any chance it may happen? PS Thank you IRM for the Christmas card. Very nice touch at the end of a very challenging year.

Every chance, in time! Think it’s best to get the A out in the wild first. No problem re card!

And yes, the A’s are in the early stages of production. We haven’t formally announced it yet as everyone is enjoying their shiny new 121s but you know us; working away quietly in the background

cheers,

Fran

[jhb171achill]

10 hours ago, Warbonnet said:but you know us; working away quietly in the background

 

Good to know!!

(That’s the RTR B101, “Maedb”, “Achill Bogie”, D14, D17, J18, Midland “Cattle engine”, UTA Jeep”, NIR 70 & 80 classes, and a range of DSER, MGWR, BCDR and Wisht Caaark six-wheelers sorted for next Christmas, then......)

10 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

.......but you know us; working away quietly in the background

cheers,

Fran

 

[connollystn]

@Warbonnet: The shine is beginning to fade on my one2ones, so, what's the latest with the As?

[Westcorkrailway]

32 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Good to know!!

(That’s the RTR B101, “Maedb”, “Achill Bogie”, D14, D17, J18, Midland “Cattle engine”, UTA Jeep”, NIR 70 & 80 classes, and a range of DSER, MGWR, BCDR and Wisht Caaark six-wheelers sorted for next Christmas, then......)

 

dont forget G class, C class, 141, 181, 171, AEC railcars, another 121 variant and that's just the diesals. And this all has to be made by....lets call it next March!

 

In all seriousness though, if a IRM stranderd pre-assembled Maebh how much would we pay to see that...

[Noel]

41 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

dont forget G class, C class, 141, 181, 171, AEC railcars, another 121 variant and that's just the diesals. And this all has to be made by....lets call it next March!

. . . Oh and a ballast wagon in RPSI livery    

[jhb171achill]

44 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

........, if a IRM stranderd pre-assembled Maebh how much would we pay to see that...

Megabucks. This is house-selling time.

 

Forgot the AEC railcars! Essential - also tin vans, even more so.

[Patrick Davey]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Megabucks. This is house-selling time.

 

Forgot the AEC railcars! Essential - also tin vans, even more so.

I'm still holding out for the Ballymena & Larne boat train.......

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

I'm still holding out for the Ballymena & Larne boat train.......

Ah, Paddy - sure you missed out on those. They sold out in August..........

[Westcorkrailway]

19 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

I'm still holding out for the Ballymena & Larne boat train.......

 yea, they seriously need to re-release the Dublin Heuston train set, large demand for those since they sold out......

[K801]

I think B113 and B114 should have been saved, with B113 going north, B114 would of been nice to keep in the south for a future possible museum 

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, K801 said:

I think B113 and B114 should have been saved, with B113 going north, B114 would of been nice to keep in the south for a future possible museum 

Sadly, there's been talk about a Republic-based museum for almost fifty years, with successive governments having had zero interest in same. On two separate occasions - the first in the 1980s - when i was involved with the RPSI there were moves made to try to bring this into being. Sadly, neither local or central authorities wanted to know.

The harsh reality is, as many of us will be aware, interest in railway history throughout Ireland is very much a niche interest; thus the potential popularity of local authorities coughing up loot to fund same is "nich-er" still.

Mullingar would have been the target for both the studies I was involved with, using the loco shed and surrounds as the central part of it, and with the RPSI maintaining a working base there as well as a transport museum. Had such a scheme ever materialised, I'm quite sure that one of these historic diesels would be there as an exhibit, along with the sadly defunct W & L Director's Saloon (934) which fell to pieces on site, thanks to weather, passage of time, and unwelcome attention from some fine vandalistic folks who partly set fire to one side....

But, sure, that's another story!

[K801]

What does CIEs heritage officer do? 

[Wexford70]

19 minutes ago, K801 said:

What does CIEs heritage officer do? 

ignore emails?

[ttc0169]

53 minutes ago, K801 said:

What does CIEs heritage officer do? 

S F A.....!!!

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, K801 said:

What does CIEs heritage officer do? 

Nothing these days.He's retired.

Invented position to shuffle someone into before retirement. IE don't have a heritage officer now.

Edited December 17, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[Galteemore]

https://meathandkildare.org/news/retirement-of-revd-gregg-ryan/

[jhb171achill]

On ‎17‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 6:55 PM, K801 said:

What does CIEs heritage officer do? 

Nobody seemed to have a clear answer to that, back in the day....I don't think they have one now?

The Mullingar museum thing was, as far as I remember though, before his time. They didn't have one then.

Edited December 21, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Mayner]

10 hours ago, K801 said:

What does CIEs heritage officer do? 

The Heritage Officers main role appears to have been protecting IEs interests in connection with maintenance, alterations to or demolition of Protected or Listed buildings and structures.

A lot of his work was tied up covering off the "Heritage" aspects of major rail projects during the late 90s early 20s. 

Such as the Kildare Route Project, Heuston Station re-modelling and improvements to stations like Kilkenny, Mullingar and Dromod where existing heritage buildings were retained in the new station design rather than being demolished and replaced with more utilitarian buildings.

 

 

[Georgeconna]

2 hours ago, Mayner said:

The Heritage Officers main role appears to have been protecting IEs interests in connection with maintenance, alterations to or demolition of Protected or Listed buildings and structures.

A lot of his work was tied up covering off the "Heritage" aspects of major rail projects during the late 90s early 20s. 

Such as the Kildare Route Project, Heuston Station re-modelling and improvements to stations like Kilkenny, Mullingar and Dromod where existing heritage buildings were retained in the new station design rather than being demolished and replaced with more utilitarian buildings.

 

 

Heritage Example of Kilkenny, This is how Heritage gets treated here, Why the old roof platform could not be used in the development of the Station is beyond me. Now people have no cover on the platform

previous

and After

new station with melted roof.

[Galteemore]

3 hours ago, Mayner said:

The Heritage Officers main role appears to have been protecting IEs interests in connection with maintenance, alterations to or demolition of Protected or Listed buildings and structures.

A lot of his work was tied up covering off the "Heritage" aspects of major rail projects during the late 90s early 20s. 

Such as the Kildare Route Project, Heuston Station re-modelling and improvements to stations like Kilkenny, Mullingar and Dromod where existing heritage buildings were retained in the new station design rather than being demolished and replaced with more utilitarian buildings.

 

 

That certainly featured large in the official IE take on the role:

Iarnród Éireann has inherited a rich legacy of architectural, industrial and social history stretching back for more than 150 years. The company’s heritage office is responsible for the conservation of the many protected structures, artefacts and installations across the network which reflects the distinctive styles of the companies which constructed the system.

Iarnród Éireann’s heritage policy, managed by heritage officer Gregg Ryan FCILT  is geared towards preserving what is best from the past in the context of the operating railway system, engaging with community groups and enthusiast bodies, and facilitating the operation of vintage steam trains over certain routes to cater for the growing railway tourist market in association with the Railway Preservation Society of Ireland.

Several publications have also been commissioned, with proceeds going to the railway pensioners’ CIÉ Welfare Association, while the company also co-operates with professional video and DVD production for international consumption.

Celebrations on significant anniversaries associated with the railway take place regularly at venues throughout the country, and archiving of written and photographic material, together with artefacts and items of rolling stock and motive power is ongoing.’

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Galteemore

[airfixfan]

Why does Translink not have an Heritage Officer in NI to protect important railway buildings from demolition. Carrichue closed 1954 and demolished 2 months ago after somebody enquired about buying the former station building for a house despite its listed status!

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, Georgeconna said:

Heritage Example of Kilkenny, This is how Heritage gets treated here, Why the old roof platform could not be used in the development of the Station is beyond me. Now people have no cover on the platform

previous

and After

new station with melted roof.

A building falling to pieces in a large tourist area; an absolute disgrace and eyesore. I don't know why KK council haven't got on Irish Rail's case to do something with it. It's been like that for what, 2 decades?

Many IE stations have been uglified by modern additions but this another level, by far the worst neglect in a highly visible touristed location.

[K801]

some kid will wonder in there, fall, sue for €4M + costs

[Mayner]

3 hours ago, K801 said:

some kid will wonder in there, fall, sue for €4M + costs

A classical historical/heritage building dilemma, no income stream to offset the cost of owning/maintaining the building.

A Civil Damages claim would probably cost a lot less than restoring/renovating the old station. 

Perhaps Kilkenny City Council or a local historical group could take over responsibility for maintaining the old station if CIE are unable to find a tenant.

[Weshty]

Gents, rest assured I have plenty of Sulzer 101 kits in stock. 

[jhb171achill]

On ‎21‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 6:10 PM, Mayner said:

A classical historical/heritage building dilemma, no income stream to offset the cost of owning/maintaining the building.

A Civil Damages claim would probably cost a lot less than restoring/renovating the old station. 

Perhaps Kilkenny City Council or a local historical group could take over responsibility for maintaining the old station if CIE are unable to find a tenant.

In some countries, the railway authority there will sell off the building to a café franchise or something, so the station still has a "buzz" about it (meaning less graffiti scumbags, drug dealers and other antisocial morons) - and the buildings of heritage value are owned and maintained by someone other than the railway.

Kilkenny has this large covered space. Make it into a restaurant, like Buncrana, or even a night-club - ANYTHING to preserve the roof and building in good condition. It might do also for a covered "farmer's market"-type location.

Edited January 9, 2021 by jhb171achill

[Westcorkrailway]

Just noticed that cie models dont load sometimes on silverfox website, could they be suspending irish orders as brexit gets sorted out

Edited January 18, 2021 by Westcorkrailway

[jhb171achill]

I believe that they make locos in batches, and once they're gone, they will wait till orders build up before doing another batch. Or something like that. This will sometimes mean that a particular model isn't immediately available by return.

Anything that may not show will, I'm sure, be back soon - but probably best to email them.

[Mol_PMB]

I did a table of the liveries carried by the B101 class, based on photos I found online or in books:

Obviously it's not complete as I couldn't find a photo of every loco in every year. Where there is a text entry in a cell that indicates a dated photo showing that livery on that loco. Cells coloured but empty are a reasonable assumption based on the same livery appearing in the years before and after.

The blue boxes at the bottom represent the period when the locos were stopped. Some locos were repainted in 1974/75 while stopped, and never re-entered service.

I expect there are some gaps that could be filled by photos I haven't found yet.

There are lots of photos which aren't dated, or only to the nearest decade. They aren't shown here, unless they depict a livery not shown in any dated photos, in which case they're in the bottom row.

It is possible that some photos are wrongly dated.

 

Some findings, which probably aren't a surprise:

• Apart from the as-delivered silver livery in 1957/8, there was no subsequent year when the whole class carried the same livery.
• The general sequence was silver - green - black and deep tan - plain black - black and shallow tan - supertrain.
• Some locos had a pinstripe on the green, others didn't, 105 and 113 carried both variants with the pinstriped one being earlier.
• jhb171achill mentioned the unusual version of black and deep tan livery carried by the B101s, lacking the white cantrail stripe. This came between the green and the plain black periods, and was certainly carried by 103, 109, 110, 111, 112; 111 carried it when withdrawn.
• 113 and 114 carried a more conventional black and deep tan livery with white cantrail stripe.
• As far as I can tell, only 113 and 114 had yellow panels on the front, but both had previously .
• Some locos may have skipped some liveries.

 

Can anyone surprise me with a variant I haven't yet found, or fill any gaps in the table?

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Mol_PMB
removed duplicate text

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I did a table of the liveries carried by the B101 class, based on photos I found online or in books:

Obviously it's not complete as I couldn't find a photo of every loco in every year. Where there is a text entry in a cell that indicates a dated photo showing that livery on that loco. Cells coloured but empty are a reasonable assumption based on the same livery appearing in the years before and after.

The blue boxes at the bottom represent the period when the locos were stopped. Some locos were repainted in 1974/75 while stopped, and never re-entered service.

I expect there are some gaps that could be filled by photos I haven't found yet.

There are lots of photos which aren't dated, or only to the nearest decade. They aren't shown here, unless they depict a livery not shown in any dated photos, in which case they're in the bottom row.

It is possible that some photos are wrongly dated.

 

Some findings, which probably aren't a surprise:

• Apart from the as-delivered silver livery in 1957/8, there was no subsequent year when the whole class carried the same livery.
• The general sequence was silver - green - black and deep tan - plain black - black and shallow tan - supertrain.
• Some locos had a pinstripe on the green, others didn't, 105 and 113 carried both variants with the pinstriped one being earlier.
• jhb171achill mentioned the unusual version of black and deep tan livery carried by the B101s, lacking the white cantrail stripe. This came between the green and the plain black periods, and was certainly carried by 103, 109, 110, 111, 112; 111 carried it when withdrawn.
• 113 and 114 carried a more conventional black and deep tan livery with white cantrail stripe.
• As far as I can tell, only 113 and 114 had yellow panels on the front, but both had previously .
• Some locos may have skipped some liveries.

 

Can anyone surprise me with a variant I haven't yet found, or fill any gaps in the table?

 

Excellent info, Mol. Most useful to anyone planning a model.

I have not found any evidence at all of a 101 carryiong the yellow front panels either - I strongly suspect none ever did. This was a variant confined to the two 113s, and SOME (not all) As & Cs.

And yes, "skipping" of liveries was not unknown. Some GNR carriages went straight from GNR brown (or navy & cream) to black'n'tan, having "skipped" green. I understand that one ex-GNR K15 was the last still in brown in 1966 or thereabouts, and was repainted black'n'tan that year. The very last "C"s were delivered green, not silver. And some A class, certainly, and possibly C, went straight from (filthy) silver to black / black'n'tan variants.

Looks very much as if 109 skipped the green too. If it was silver in 1961, it's hardly going have been repainted green.