Customs & VAT

[BosKonay]

https://www.accurascale.com/collections/gwr-7800-manor-class

Next day DPD shipping - you will pay VAT on arrival, rather than on the website, but the exact same cost 

[irishmail]

Hatton's now offer additional shipping options with Evri/Fastway and DPD which are both cheaper than DHL.  I have today received a parcel via DPD today, collected Monday afternoon with out any hassle.

Good to have more options and avoid the Royalmail/Anpost lottery. 

Sample prices from Hatton's website.

Republic of Ireland
£3.50 Royal Mail. Zone 05. Airmail Untracked. Weighs between 001g and 300g when packed. Ave 3-5 day transit time.
£5 EVRI International via Fastway. Ireland. Weighs between 001g and 300g when packed. Ave 2-4 day transit time.
£8.96 Royal Mail. Western Europe. Airmail "Signed for". Weighs between 001g and 300g when packed. Avg 3-5 day transit time.
£9 DPD Republic of Ireland. 2-day with tracking up to 10kg
£23 DHL Express Priority. Insured, tracked & signed-for. Delivered 1 working day after despatch. Zone 1 - up to 1kg

[BosKonay]

Accurascale is free on €100+
with DPD and €5.95 otherwise. 

[DiveController]

Hattons sent me my trunk items to USA last week with no charge. Probably needed the space  

[irishmail]

7 hours ago, DiveController said:

Hattons sent me my trunk items to USA last week with no charge. Probably needed the space  

I believe they were doing a stock take this week and were going to ship any outstanding trunk items by 22nd November.

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

I believe they were doing a stock take this week and were going to ship any outstanding trunk items by 22nd November.

 

They sent an email out a few weeks back to that effect. Shipped two small orders to me with zero shipping yesterday, too.

[irishmail]

Had an email from  Hattons earlier today about  overseas  orders.  Looks  like  they  may  be  changing  how  they  will ship  overseas  orders  in the  near  future.  I have  copied  and  pasted  the  email,  expect  all non uk  customers  will have  had  same.

 

"Dear john

At Hattons, we strive to continuously enhance your shopping experience, and we have an important update to share regarding changes to our shopping cart and taxation system.

Within the next couple of weeks, we will implement adjustments to our system to ensure that you are charged the correct tax at the time of purchase. This change is part of our commitment to transparency and compliance with local tax regulations in your region.

As a valued international customer, we want to bring this to your attention to ensure a smooth transition. The good news is that if you despatch the items in your trunk within the next week, you will be exempt from any additional tax costs associated with these changes.

Please note that local customs duties and courier fees may still be charged, we are working on expanding this system to correctly cover landed fees in the future.

We understand the importance of budgeting for your hobby, and we want to make sure you have the opportunity to make the most of this window.

We appreciate your understanding and continued support as we work to improve our services. If you have any questions or concerns regarding these changes, please don't hesitate to reach out to our customer experience team.

Thank you for being a valued member of the Hattons community. We look forward to serving you and providing the best model railway products for your enjoyment."
 

[John-r]

Hi All, hope everyone is enjoying the bank holiday and . I'm looking for a bit of help and advice, basically I'm looking to buy a loco either from rails of Sheffield or Modelbahnunion, it's a DRS class 20, so vat deducted its costing £149.99+ £15 shipping then vat at this side plus any other charges which I'm not sure about, from Germany it's €232 +13 postage. So which is the better deal as I cannot figure out the final price from UK, sorry a bit long winded, I can't seem to get my head around it but any help or advice really appreciated. Thanks John.

[DJ Dangerous]

26 minutes ago, John-r said:

Hi All, hope everyone is enjoying the bank holiday and . I'm looking for a bit of help and advice, basically I'm looking to buy a loco either from rails of Sheffield or Modelbahnunion, it's a DRS class 20, so vat deducted its costing £149.99+ £15 shipping then vat at this side plus any other charges which I'm not sure about, from Germany it's €232 +13 postage. So which is the better deal as I cannot figure out the final price from UK, sorry a bit long winded, I can't seem to get my head around it but any help or advice really appreciated. Thanks John.

Approx £150 GBP is approx €176 EURO.

Plus 23% Irish VAT is approx €217 EURO.

Plus An Post charge something like €6,50 handling fee.

Plus the £15 GBP / €18 postage from Rails.

Totals about €240 EURO, all in.

[John-r]

Thanks DJ, I was coming up with a different figure each time, what was throwing me was the UK postage if that was included in Irish vat calculations or not, Appreciate it.

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, John-r said:

Thanks DJ, I was coming up with a different figure each time, what was throwing me was the UK postage if that was included in Irish vat calculations or not, Appreciate it.

Pretty sure that up in Ireland, the postage is not included for the VAT calculation, but I'm open to correction.

Down here, the postage price IS included when the tax is calculated.

[BosKonay]

2 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Pretty sure that up in Ireland, the postage is not included for the VAT calculation, but I'm open to correction.

Down here, the postage price IS included when the tax is calculated.

There is no VAT on postage but when importing you pay VAT on the full amount you’ve paid including p&p plus the an post processing. 

[DJ Dangerous]

12 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

There is no VAT on postage but when importing you pay VAT on the full amount you’ve paid including p&p plus the an post processing. 

 

So they charge you VAT on the postage if you pay for the item and the postage together?

But, if you pay for both item and postage seperately, you then only pay Irish VAT on the item?

[Ironroad]

Customs valuation for vat and or duties (if applicable) is "Landed Cost". So their assessment will take account of the invoiced value plus any associated shipping, courier, or postage costs.

[DJ Dangerous]

This is going over my head.

How can you pay VAT on postage if there's no VAT on postage?

I have seen that written here on the forum several times, that there's no VAT on postage.

[Broithe]

31 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

This is going over my head.

How can you pay VAT on postage if there's no VAT on postage?

I have seen that written here on the forum several times, that there's no VAT on postage.

The UK did the same when there was a £15 threshold before you were hit for import costs. I paid £14.90, including p&p, for a CD from Japan. By the time it arrived, a change in the exchange rate made the 'official' total £15.03. This meant that I was hit for £3.00 and another £8.00 for the privilege of paying it. At total of £11 extra when I had paid actually less than the threshold for the item, including postage.

[Mayner]

Its irrelevant whether the Royal Mail or An Post charge VAT on postage within their own countries.

The rules around customs charges are subject to an International agreement and are are calculated on the declared value of the item plus any shipping, courier/postal, brokerage and customs clearance costs.

The shipment value on the Customs Declaration excludes shipping and brokerage costs which is declared directly by the postal authority/courier to the Customs. (excluding any mark up on postal/shipping cost)

In New Zealand items being exported are zero rated for the local equivalent of Vat including export postage shipping. In the UK and EU Vat is charged on internal shipments by commercial courier/shipping companies such as DHL/FedEx.

[Ironroad]

14 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

This is going over my head.

How can you pay VAT on postage if there's no VAT on postage?

I have seen that written here on the forum several times, that there's no VAT on postage.

Hi DJ.  In Ireland, VAT is not applicable to goods exported outside the EU nor is VAT applicable to the the associated costs of those exports. This includes postage, trucking, courier, airfreight, ocean freight, brokerage costs etc. 

Conversely on imports all those costs together with the actual invoiced value of the goods are taken together to establish the "Landed Cost" which is the figure on which VAT and Duties are applicable.

Yes in effect they are applying vat on foreign postage but on the basis that it contributed to the cost of the goods.

[DJ Dangerous]

18 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Hi DJ.  In Ireland, VAT is not applicable to goods exported outside the EU nor is VAT applicable to the the associated costs of those exports. This includes postage, trucking, courier, airfreight, ocean freight, brokerage costs etc. 

Conversely on imports all those costs together with the actual invoiced value of the goods are taken together to establish the "Landed Cost" which is the figure on which VAT and Duties are applicable.

Yes in effect they are applying vat on foreign postage but on the basis that it contributed to the cost of the goods.

 

So why, when we talk about importing into Ireland from outside the EU, for example in @John-r's recent case, do people say things like this?

On 2/6/2024 at 7:22 PM, BosKonay said:

There is no VAT on postage

 

Irrespective of whether a non-EU retailer applies VAT to their postage fees or not, it would appear that for the customer, in Ireland, buying from outside the EU, there IS VAT charged on the postage.

Is that the bottom line?

Yes, there is Irish VAT charged on postage fees for items bought outside the EU?

[BosKonay]

It’s pretty simple really. 

No mail carrier charges VAT on their postage service. 

Couriers all charge VAT on their postage service. 

If you buy into the EU from outside you pay no VAT or Sales Tax and you pay postage where applicable. When that parcel lands in, say Ireland, the ‘total’ value of that parcel on your invoice including all postage and packing and other fees is the amount An Post will charge VAT on. 

Buy £100 of models from the UK and pay £10 postage then An Post see a £110 parcel and will apply 23% VAT on £110 / €130 or so. You will therefore pay €159.90 in this example plus the An Post fee for handling the import VAT for you, which seems to be a range between €3.50 and €6.50 presumably based on value

[murphaph]

Yep, same in Germany and presumably EU-wide. VAT and I believe duty also is charged on the total price of the article "landed" in the EU, which includes the cost of postage & packaging to get it there. There are lots of anomalies in the VAT system and this is another one because if you buy say a book, you may pay less or no VAT at all (in some EU countries) on the postage & packaging element even though that is no different to the postage and packaging element of items subject to the luxury/standard rates of VAT. I can see where they are coming from though....the Chinese shops like Wish/Temu etc. would simply shift more of the purchase price into the P&P and reduce the headline price of items if the P&P was not subject to taxes.

[DJ Dangerous]

So the bottom line, for the Irish punter, is that THERE IS VAT charged on postage when buying from / importing from outside the EU.

Doesn't matter who charges it, and the statements here on the forum about there being no VAT on postage are misleading, but Ireland is the same as here, so, you pay tax on the total landed value declared on the parcel.

My apologies to @John-r for being misinformed!

 

[MOGUL]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

So the bottom line, for the Irish punter, is that THERE IS VAT charged on postage when buying from / importing from outside the EU.

Doesn't matter who charges it, and the statements here on the forum about there being no VAT on postage are misleading, but Ireland is the same as here, so, you pay tax on the total landed value declared on the parcel.

My apologies to @John-r for being misinformed!

 

I think you are getting two seperate scenarios confused to be honest..

What @BosKonaysaid is as that VAT is payable on courier fees, i.e if you are booking a shipment with DPD/UPS/FedEx/DHL then you pay VAT on the courier fees but not to An Post/RM/DHL post Germany if you post with them. 

He then elaborated that VAT is payable on an import shipment, as the value used by customs for calculating the VAT due is the landed value. This covers all costs incurred to get the shipment to the point of arrival(including shipping/postage)..

So if I buy item x for €100 from a third world country, and pay €10 postage, then the VAT due will be €110(purchase price plus postage) x 23 per cent

Edited June 7 by MOGUL

[DJ Dangerous]

8 minutes ago, MOGUL said:

So if I buy item x for €100 from a third world country, and pay €10 postage, then the VAT due will be €110(purchase price plus postage) x 23 per cent

 

This is the only scenario for somebody in Ireland buying from outside the EU, no?

 

Also, €100 is a lot of money in a third world country. What the Hell are you importing?

[Georgeconna]

1 hour ago, MOGUL said:

I think you are getting two seperate scenarios confused to be honest..

What @BosKonaysaid is as that VAT is payable on courier fees, i.e if you are booking a shipment with DPD/UPS/FedEx/DHL then you pay VAT on the courier fees but not to An Post/RM/DHL post Germany if you post with them. 

He then elaborated that VAT is payable on an import shipment, as the value used by customs for calculating the VAT due is the landed value. This covers all costs incurred to get the shipment to the point of arrival(including shipping/postage)..

So if I buy item x for €100 from a third world country, and pay €10 postage, then the VAT due will be €110(purchase price plus postage) x 23 per cent

And if there is duty payable that gets added to the invoice cost + Freight cost and then the total x 23% Vat.

 

[MOGUL]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

This is the only scenario for somebody in Ireland buying from outside the EU, no?

 

Also, €100 is a lot of money in a third world country. What the Hell are you importing?

Sorry that should read third countries, i.e ones that aren’t members of the EU or EFTA

[amdaley]

20 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

And if there is duty payable that gets added to the invoice cost + Freight cost and then the total x 23% Vat.

 

Fortunately there's no duty on model railways

[John-r]

Hi Lads, Thanks to you all that replied to my query, especially DJ Dangerous, bit of a minefield isn't it, so basically in my post above, it now looks like I'm better off buying my item from Germany, all things considered I'll still make a bit of a saving. Cheers John.