IRM announce NIR Enterprise Mark 2 Coaches

[DoctorPan]

8 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

Rome wasn't built in a day, so don't worry, earlier stock will come. These things just take time is all. 

"....and you can see here that we have tooled the B4 and B5 bogies for these coaches for 4ft 8 and a half and 5 ft 3 for the NIR examples to allow regauging to 21mm..."

 

The latter certainly point certainly reinforces the first point if one reads into IRM's previous clever combination of wagons allowing utilisation of parts to aid other rolling stock, Ballast and Bubbles sharing a common chassis, Taras wagons having the same bogies as the 42fters. Having Mk2 bodyshells, B4s and B5s in the CAD and tooling libraries certainly is boom to certain possible projects down the road, but that's a story for another day!

[murphaph]

I suspect (but don't want to speak on his behalf so am open to correction) that DC is referring to the apparent need to cut out the brake gear and move the brake blocks out in front of the wheel flange when regauging.

I see the point (I asked about it myself after all) but considering how much effort and sheer number of modelling hours these coaches will save me I can certainly live with a little bit of modelling on each wheel set. IRM's approach makes 21mm modelling practical going forward as we know the commitment is there to cater to it on future projects.

Converting existing MM coaching stock will be a significantly bigger job as the whole bogie needs replacing or destructively modifying.

It would be an absolutely awesome gesture if IRM would perhaps consider selling these highly detailed bogies separately to allow an easier regauging of older MM coaching stock.

Even if they could be sold loose in an unbranded plastic bag to cut out the need to develop packaging (which would surely make the whole enterprise a loss maker) it would be great.

I'm not asking for an answer now as I know you'd need to do some sums of you were so inclined but it would be appreciated if it could be considered.

[Georgeconna]

Hi folks,

IRM Going from Strength to strength it seems!

I never saw these in the Flesh so to speak so would these 3 packs (1-2-3)  be run together in a Rake?

Would the Driving trailer also be pulled in the rake by a 111 Class?

Where would the Similar Lima Liveried coaches fit in with these?

 

 

[iarnrod]

@WarbonnetFran, would you lads know from your research if it is possible to renumber any of the coaches in the Corporate packs to form additional protypical NIR coaches? I suspect Pack 3 will give additional standard class coaches  by simply renumbering some, but curious about any of the other variants, as would purchase additional packs if this was the case. Thanks

[murphaph]

The answer to your first 2 questions  George is a definite yes.

The third one will be a matter of taste I suppose.

@iarnrod I reckon renumbering these might be easier said than done. The numbers are bound by the black stripe. The transfers would need to be very small. I'm not sure how tall the railtec ones are.

[LARNE CABIN]

On 26/8/2021 at 8:54 PM, murphaph said:

You can say that again:

Is that the inside of your Railway Room? @murphaph. Very impressive collection, and probably only some of it! I like the way you've stacked three cabinets, one on top of each other. Good use of space. Can I ask what make is the individual cabinet? Is it IKEA or German make? Thanks.

[iarnrod]

34 minutes ago, murphaph said:

@iarnrod I reckon renumbering these might be easier said than done. The numbers are bound by the black stripe. The transfers would need to be very small. I'm not sure how tall the railtec ones are.

I thinking as Railtec already produce the numbers for these carriages, that they could shrink or enlarge their transfers, if required,  to match what will arrive from IRM. 

Harder problem is finding photos of these carriages online as they are proving quite elusive.

[Warbonnet]

46 minutes ago, iarnrod said:

@WarbonnetFran, would you lads know from your research if it is possible to renumber any of the coaches in the Corporate packs to form additional protypical NIR coaches? I suspect Pack 3 will give additional standard class coaches  by simply renumbering some, but curious about any of the other variants, as would purchase additional packs if this was the case. Thanks

Hi Noel,

It would indeed. The grille is the tricky one due to it's unique nature but the rest of the coaches can be renumbered and we did our best not to use same numbers across the different packs to give lots of variety. 

Cheers,

Fran 

[NIRCLASS80]

Here's one of the Mk2b's converted to a 80 Class trailer in 2001 in Portrush.  Also included a photo of a typical 80 Class Easter in Portrush.  Seen as many as 11 power cars in the Port at once during the early to mid 1990's.

 

Ballymoney just to finish

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by NIRCLASS80

[murphaph]

10 minutes ago, LARNE CABIN said:

Is that the inside of your Railway Room? @murphaph. Very impressive collection, and probably only some of it! I like the way you've stacked three cabinets, one on top of each other. Good use of space. Can I ask what make is the individual cabinet? Is it IKEA or German make? Thanks.

Thanks LC. It's the "foyer" to the (future) railway room (which is through the glass door). The "Railway room" is at present my workshop and will only be vacated when I get around to building the garage lol. This display system allows me to enjoy a part of my collection in the meantime. Eventually I will re-home all this stuff to the layout and fill the cases with something else of interest to me.

This space is in the basement so the missus let me away with it. She wouldn't have agreed to taking up so much wall space anywhere else in the house.

Th cabinets are from a German online retailer but I believe they are French made. They were very reasonable, something like €30 a unit so for the price of one loco I got a full wall of display space.

The spaces on the left are for a certain A Class locomotive,  expected imminently.

I can't find them on the retailer's site I bought them from but they wouldn't deliver to Ireland/UK anyway but this is the product on Amazon for reference (a tenner dearer than I paid):

https://www.amazon.de/Inter-Link-Sammlervitrine-Hängevitrine-Glasvitrine/dp/B002PHLZJQ/ref=asc_df_B002PHLZJQ/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=268405760521&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18397947486874646964&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9043180&hvtargid=pla-420239704950&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

[iarnrod]

27 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi Noel,

It would indeed. The grille is the tricky one due to it's unique nature but the rest of the coaches can be renumbered and we did our best not to use same numbers across the different packs to give lots of variety. 

Cheers,

Fran 

Thanks Fran. I like what you did with the different numbers in each pack. Would be the  Corporate livery that I'm after, so will research a bit more to see which packs are best donors for renumbering.

[DiveController]

15 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Rome wasn't built in a day, so don't worry, earlier stock will come. These things just take time is all. 

What persisting 21 regauging issues? All our bogie stock has sufficient room, as does the As, and you can see here that we have tooled the B4 and B5 bogies for these coaches for 4ft 8 and a half and 5 ft 3 for the NIR examples to allow regauging to 21mm. Can this evolution to the unfortunate slight lack of room on the Ballast/Bubble chassis be classed as persistent?

 

Hi Fran,

Great to hear about earlier stock. We're going to have to hold you to that!

Sorry if my comment was cryptic but I was indeed referring to the brake gear which was correctly interpreted by another member. In my opinion it seems intuitive that if you going to go to the trouble of tooling both a B4 & B5 that you may a well make it prototypical rather than compromising the brake gear in favor 16.5 mm (which now that it's tooled will be a persisting feature in all models based on this tooling) 

15 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Incorrect. Work began on these about 2 years ago with Gareth project managing this one and a smashing job he has done too. 

I not sure if you interpreted this comment correctly. I was simply trying to say that a lot of effort had gone into researching these and this was intended to be complimentary as was many other things I have said on this thread. I think IRM has been around long enough at this point to weather the opinion of one of its loyal customers, surely? 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by DiveController

[DiveController]

15 hours ago, murphaph said:

It would be an absolutely awesome gesture if IRM would perhaps consider selling these highly detailed bogies separately to allow an easier regauging of older MM coaching stock.

I agree. And since the bogies are part of the lighting system. I have a lot of MM coaches that I'd like to be able to reguage, which may be overshadowed shortly by IRM bogie stock and coaches. That would leave the Baby GMs of which there are many  Thank God the As will be easier

9 hours ago, murphaph said:

I reckon renumbering these might be easier said than done. The numbers are bound by the black stripe. The transfers would need to be very small. I'm not sure how tall the railtec ones are.

In order to keep the number position on the coach correct,  it might be possible to obliterate the original number with a black decal over the stripe followed by the number over that. Not sure if you would need to seal between each layer of decal.

Edited August 31, 2021 by DiveController

[DiveController]

10 hours ago, iarnrod said:

would you know from your research if it is possible to renumber any of the coaches in the Corporate packs to form additional protypical NIR coaches?

I suspect Pack 3 will give additional standard class coaches  by simply renumbering some, but curious about any of the other variants, as would purchase additional packs if this was the case. Thanks

@iarnrod The table you posted will give you most of what your need. Something very similar in Jonathan's Allen's 35 years of the NIR 1967-2002. If you let me know your modeling era and need more info I'm happy to look it up and send to you if you PM me. Many of the 800 numbered stock disappeared fairly early either physically or were renumbered into the 900 series with newer stock

[airfixfan]

Can help as well have my own notes plus the classic Harris BR Mk 2 book as well

 Even got to Athenry and Tuam etc in an NIR Mk 2 set many moons ago!

[Warbonnet]

7 hours ago, DiveController said:

Hi Fran,

Great to hear about earlier stock. We're going to have to hold you to that!

Sorry if my comment was cryptic but I was indeed referring to the brake gear which was correctly interpreted by another member. In my opinion it seems intuitive that if you going to go to the trouble of tooling both a B4 & B5 that you may a well make it prototypical rather than compromising the brake gear in favor 16.5 mm (which now that it's tooled will be a persisting feature in all models based on this tooling) 

I not sure if you interpreted this comment correctly. I was simply trying to say that a lot of effort had gone into researching these and this was intended to be complimentary as was many other things I have said on this thread. I think IRM has been around long enough at this point to weather the opinion of one of its loyal customers, surely? 

 

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for clearing that up, it's a very tricky one for us but as the amount of people who have 21mm converted our stock can be counted on one hand I'm sure you can see our dilemma. Also, if people are doing 21mm they also tend to be very skilled modellers, so moving some brake shoes is usually a doddle for them compared to someone who would classify themselves as a "trainset modeller" having to set them in the 00 position. 

Regarding your second point, it seems I did interpret it incorrectly. I read it as though we have not been making provision for 21mm which seems not your intention so I apologise. We would happily weather any opinions but sometimes we have to set the record straight too if we feel it's misinformation which I did originally in this case, if that makes sense? All good now.

Cheers!

Fran 

[iarnrod]

7 hours ago, DiveController said:

@iarnrod The table you posted will give you most of what your need. Something very similar in Jonathan's Allen's 35 years of the NIR 1967-2002. If you let me know your modeling era and need more info I'm happy to look it up and send to you if you PM me. Many of the 800 numbered stock disappeared fairly early either physically or were renumbered into the 900 series with newer stock

@DiveControllerPM sent

[NIRCLASS80]

Mk2B Driving trailer leads an eighty set into Ballymena past a MV.

Now there’s an idea for the IRM lads!

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Mk2B Driving trailer leads an eighty set into Ballymena past a MV.

Now there’s an idea for the IRM lads!

80 class released along with a “C” in the accessories pack?

[flange lubricator]

Have had a good look at these and wow what a coach, details like bump stops on the doors are a super detail that is a very small but important part of the MK2b look. I think these coaches will certainly be up there with the best MK2's on the market and definitely worth the money .

Unfortunately for me NIR is not my scene /era so I wont be participating on this occasion , I am quitely hoping that that IRM will do some MK2c's in particular Mk2c FO which ran on IR as 4103,4104,4105,4106,4107and as NIR 903 these along with a  MK2b FK which is being offered by Accurascale reconfigured  would do Irish Rail  4109, 4401 & 4402 perhaps its too much wishful thinking on my part .

Edited August 31, 2021 by flange lubricator

[BosKonay]

2 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

Have had a good look at these and wow what a coach, details like bump stops on the doors are a super detail that is a very small but important part of the MK2b look. I think these coaches will certainly be up there with the best MK2's on the market and definitely worth the money .

Unfortunately for me NIR is not my scene /era so I wont be participating on this occasion , I am quitely hoping that that IRM will do some MK2c's in particular Mk2c FO which ran on IR as 4103,4104,4105,4106,4107and as NIR 903 these along with a  MK2b FK which is being offered by Accurascale reconfigured  would do Irish Rail  4109, 4401 & 4402 perhaps its too much wishful thinking on my part .

https://irishrailwaymodels.com/products/nir-mk2b-pack-corporate-intercity-1?_pos=1&_sid=744924f07&_ss=r

NIR 903 indeed

[flange lubricator]

6 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

https://irishrailwaymodels.com/products/nir-mk2b-pack-corporate-intercity-1?_pos=1&_sid=744924f07&_ss=r

NIR 903 indeed

Wow missed that so the three pack of Irish rail 410x series at some point in IE/IR livery ???

Edited August 31, 2021 by flange lubricator

[BosKonay]

7 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

Wow missed that so the three pack of Irish rail 410x series at some point in IE/IR livery ???

If anyone has any photos of the 2bs and / or 2c's we'd be happy to see them!

[flange lubricator]

21 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

If anyone has any photos of the 2bs and / or 2c's we'd be happy to see them!

perhaps this should be in a different thread not to take away or confuse it  from the new Nir Mk2 thread 

ex BR mk2's - Questions & Answers - Irish Railway Modeller

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by flange lubricator

[Dhu Varren]

3 hours ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Mk2B Driving trailer leads an eighty set into Ballymena past a MV.

Now there’s an idea for the IRM lads!

This vehicle would be ex Enterprise Driving Trailer 811, now converted to 80 Class Driving Trailer 754. At this stage it was only a partial conversion, in that the full Guards accommodation was still in situ, and there was only seating for 31 passengers. There was also no roof headlight fitted.

Photo below shows a side view of 754 arriving in Portrush in original condition, complete with Guards compartment.

Subsequently, 754 was fully converted with the Guards compartment being removed, and seating being increased to 75. The standard 80 Class roof headlight was also fitted. This vehicle was easily recognisable, in that it did not have a centre door, and it also retained the original roof vent layout for a Mk 2b DBSO, this can be clearly seen in the following photo by Gordon Hawkins.

 

[jhb171achill]

I think in later days quite a few ex-1970 Enterprise coaches ended up within the 80 class fleet.

[hexagon789]

14 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I think in later days quite a few ex-1970 Enterprise coaches ended up within the 80 class fleet.

Perhaps because the earlier ones had the same three-pipe air brakes the 80 Class used? 

Just a guess, any of the later coaches would've needed conversion as they were two-pipe.

[Dhu Varren]

22 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

Perhaps because the earlier ones had the same three-pipe air brakes the 80 Class used? 

Just a guess, any of the later coaches would've needed conversion as they were two-pipe.

When the 80 Class were originally ordered, they were a mix of three car and two car sets. Later, to increase the capacity of the two car sets, a number of Enterprise coaches, both three-pipe, and two-pipe versions were converted to 80 Class intermediate cars. Unlike the original intermediates, they did not have centre doors added. 

[hexagon789]

10 minutes ago, Dhu Varren said:

both three-pipe, and two-pipe versions were converted to 80 Class intermediate cars.

Fair enough then, the DEMUs are not quite my area of expertise - I'm more a coaching stock man

[airfixfan]

Some former NIR Enterprise oaches converted to replace bomb damaged stock etc

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Dhu Varren said:

..................Unlike the original intermediates, they did not have centre doors added. 

..........And that's just how the layman could tell them from original 80-class stock.

[Bumble_Bee]

10 hours ago, Dhu Varren said:

 

 

Subsequently, 754 was fully converted with the Guards compartment being removed, and seating being increased to 75. The standard 80 Class roof headlight was also fitted. This vehicle was easily recognisable, in that it did not have a centre door, and it also retained the original roof vent layout for a Mk 2b DBSO, this can be clearly seen in the following photo by Gordon Hawkins.

 

This is how I remember them! Yellow door with the red diamond and the lovely teal stripe up the side. 

Was this an NIR livery or Translink? Or both? I remember seeing them with the NIR logo but also remember seeing translink stickers on the side

[jhb171achill]

7 minutes ago, Bumble_Bee said:

This is how I remember them! Yellow door with the red diamond and the lovely teal stripe up the side. 

Was this an NIR livery or Translink? Or both? I remember seeing them with the NIR logo but also remember seeing translink stickers on the side

The yellow doors with red diamond pre-dated what you call the "teal" line - and that came about in the late 1990s after NIR became the railway arm of "Translink" in 1996. Prior to that, of course, the NIR livery was the same except that instead of the turquoise  / "teal" line, there was the well-regarded black-white-black-yellow lining there instead - but also, with the "teal" line livery, the blue went right up to the roof line, no grey line above it.

When the 80s were introduced, the end doors were the same maroon and blue livery, and then at one stage they were all-maroon with a light grey diamond - this "door livery" appeared with the light grey with maroon waistline livery.

The yellow things with red diamond appeared as these were  beginning to be repainted blue. Personally I thought the older colours looked better - for all the advantages that yellow has in visibility terms, it matches almost nothing!

[Robert Shrives]

Hi, Well late to the table and broke! Thanks to all concerned and with the UK overlap range hopefully a little cash overlaps and pays for tooling for 547 and our NIR special gen brakes. - Can see a right Royal crossover there. 

I really hope the omission of first livery is part of the greater plan to produce a class 20 for UK market that gives material for the Hunslets, but as note totally Uber niche market , with the 80 class with augmentation trailers to follow by 2026...  With 754/ 811 all it needs is a power car to make everyones friend with two brakes and bugger all seating...   

I can happily work on decals on my Lima models now knowing that it will be a futile race , but just as much fun.  

Agree if lighting can be worked out as a package deal for adding to MM models and I guess UK models as well then some happy to model will be pleased.  

As with the A class you get my money for these coaches.    

Have to say smiled at comment on 80class with a C/ MV class in the bits bag - good value..

Thanks again troops!

Robert     

[DiveController]

On 31/8/2021 at 6:54 AM, flange lubricator said:

Wow missed that so the three pack of Irish rail 410x series at some point in IE/IR livery ???

I suppose you'll be expecting a Dutch Van to go with that??