Class 121

[jhb171achill]

2 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Mine have been sitting in the Correos depot up north for a week, now. Already customs cleared, just sitting there with the staff looking at them, laughing at my pain...

They're deeply twisted people in the Correos, DJ.........

[DJ Dangerous]

3 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

They're deeply twisted people in the Correos, DJ.........

Oh yes, they live to torment me.

[DiveController]

14 hours ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

20 minutes with a Lokprogrammer soon sorted the lights outs. All independent. 

So the marker lights/headlights are not independent with the MM standard DCC or DCC sound chip without a Lokprogrammer?

Edited September 21, 2020 by DiveController

[DJ Dangerous]

2 minutes ago, DiveController said:

So the marker lights/headlights are not independent with the MM standard DCC or DCC sound chip without a Lokprogrammer?

It would appear not, but at least they are not hard-wired that way, and it's only software.

Iwas speaking with a member on here who's a bit of a wizard at electronics, and they had to do some creative wiring to un-hard-wire the marker lights in their 201.

[DiveController]

SO when I stick in a MM DCC non-sound chip (just to simplify things). I cannot use the standard F functions on my ESU to control marker lights and headlights Like I do on a 071 for example?

The solution is that I have to do some remapping of functions, I presume.

So, can I do that using my ESU DCC control unit alone?

Do I need to have an Lokprogrammer in addition to my control unit or that just makes it simpler to do? 

[irishthump]

14 hours ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

20 minutes with a Lokprogrammer soon sorted the lights outs. All independent. 

That sounds good. Which file did you use?

[murphaph]

8 hours ago, DiveController said:

SO when I stick in a MM DCC non-sound chip (just to simplify things). I cannot use the standard F functions on my ESU to control marker lights and headlights Like I do on a 071 for example?

The solution is that I have to do some remapping of functions, I presume.

So, can I do that using my ESU DCC control unit alone?

Do I need to have an Lokprogrammer in addition to my control unit or that just makes it simpler to do? 

I'm assuming that you can certainly use the mm decoder out of the box to control the headlights, marker lights (cab lights?) as with the 071 and 201 but it was noticed on those locos that the complementary marker lights are always on or off, meaning when one end's white lights are on, the other end's red lights are also on. This is not prototypical when the loco is actually hauling something. The red marker lights should typically be off when hauling a train, with the red marker lights being on the last coach/wagon instead. A hardware change is required in the 201 (not yet sure about the 071) to enable the white front marker lights to be on without the red rear marker lights.

This appears not to be the case with the 121. The lights are independently wired so can be (but aren't from the factory it seems) mapped to allow independent control.

Anything that a Lokprogrammer allows in this regard can be done by modifying CVs with a command station like the ecos but it's more difficult and fairly error prone compared to the LP way.

If you don't care about the red marker lights being on when hauling a train then you don't need to do anything. 

[Dhu Varren]

The red marker lights on the 201 work in conjunction with the white marker lights, i.e. when white lights are on at one end, the red lights are on at the other, unless the switch provided is used. to remotely switch on or off the red lights would require a modification to the loco circuitry, such as a micro relay added.

The 071 on the other hand, is a different animal. The circuitry already exists to control ALL lights independently, and just requires a bit of Function remapping to achieve this. The Lokprogrammer is the simplest way of achieving this, but as murphaph says, it could be done by modifying CVs.    

  

[murphaph]

Ah that's good to know about the 071. I've fitted a sub miniature relay to a 201 but I haven't had a chance to test it yet. It requires a couple of additional components, even when using a v5 decoder. The aux 5 output is used to energise the relay coil but as per the nmra spec for the mtc21 connection, aux 5 is at TTL power level which can't do that energising and the signal therefore needs a small transistor (capable of switching 150mA or so) and associated resistor to amplify this TTL to a usable level. I'm not entirely sure if it's required with the ESU decoders but I put in a clamp diode across the terminals of the relay coil to prevent induced voltage spikes damaging the decoder when the relay is de-energised suddenly.

I'll stick up a basic schematic once I've tested it.

[Dhu Varren]

52 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Ah that's good to know about the 071. I've fitted a sub miniature relay to a 201 but I haven't had a chance to test it yet. It requires a couple of additional components, even when using a v5 decoder. The aux 5 output is used to energise the relay coil but as per the nmra spec for the mtc21 connection, aux 5 is at TTL power level which can't do that energising and the signal therefore needs a small transistor (capable of switching 150mA or so) and associated resistor to amplify this TTL to a usable level. I'm not entirely sure if it's required with the ESU decoders but I put in a clamp diode across the terminals of the relay coil to prevent induced voltage spikes damaging the decoder when the relay is de-energised suddenly.

I'll stick up a basic schematic once I've tested it.

If Aux 5 is at TTL power level, surely a TTL relay would suffice on it's own, apart from the clamp diode?

[murphaph]

What sort of part would you have in mind? I'm no expert to be honest. My electronic days in uni are long behind me! 

I happened to have all the parts except the spdt relay so just went with it.

[WRENNEIRE]

Haven't a clue what you guys are talking about but there are 6 switches in the body of the loco that can control different light formations
Would these help solve the problem?

[Noel]

The sound chip I'm using seems to have all the light functions working ok, shunting, train mode, parking, etc. The red marker lights were a little bright so turned the brightness down a bit. A minor thing but it would have been nice had the grey 121 marker lights been of a warm yellow hue, rather than the white blue hue (ie to simulate candescent lights of that era like the 071s). But that seems almost trivial.

[murphaph]

I'll have to have a 121 in my hands before I can say if the switches can influence anything under DCC.

Noel are you using a MM decoder?

[DART8118]

55 minutes ago, Noel said:

The sound chip I'm using seems to have all the light functions working ok, shunting, train mode, parking, etc. The red marker lights were a little bright so turned the brightness down a bit. 

Noel, What CV do you change to turn down the brightness?

TIA. 8118

[DiveController]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

The red marker lights were a little bright so turned the brightness down a bit. A minor thing but it would have been nice had the grey 121 marker lights been of a warm yellow hue, rather than the white blue hue (ie to simulate candescent lights of that era like the 071s).

Are you talking about B134? The modern LEDS on the 121s and 141 etc would have used diodes above 3000K color, maybe a lot more.

The older 121s  (121, 135 and many more) should have the yellower hue 2700Kelvin like an incandescent (as that's what they were I believe)

[connollystn]

Do any of you guys actually 'enjoy' railway modelling?

[murphaph]

Everyone enjoys different aspects to a greater or lesser extent. Why do you ask?

[irishthump]

10 minutes ago, connollystn said:

Do any of you guys actually 'enjoy' railway modelling?

DCC control, lighting and sound is a fascinating part of the hobby.

[DART8118]

42 minutes ago, connollystn said:

Do any of you guys actually 'enjoy' railway modelling?

Yep.  A runner, a modeller and a wanabe collector.

 

[Noel]

1 hour ago, connollystn said:

Do any of you guys actually 'enjoy' railway modelling?

Almost daily, bit, byte, bob, gigabit, CV63=80  

[BosKonay]

Do try to keep the thread on the 121 gentlemen

[irishthump]

 

7 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Do try to keep the thread on the 121 gentlemen

The DCC side of the 121 models is rapidly growing into its own thing. Could the relevant replies here and on other threads be merged into a separate thread?

Edited September 22, 2020 by irishthump

[DiveController]

To be fair, other than a few discussion posts all of the DCC, CV tuning, lighting, sound, operational aspects etc is all very relevant unless it need to go on a separate thread in the DCC section (with a link here so that relevant content can be linked back to the 121)

[DJ Dangerous]

Did I read somewhere that the 121 has limited sound available, even on DC?

Or is that a different loco?

[murrayec]

13 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Did I read somewhere that the 121 has limited sound available, even on DC?

Or is that a different loco?

The ESU chip does run in DC with limited sound, generally they are set to startup the engine at 50% of the throttle, the loco will drive from there with more throttle applied, the engine sound runs up with the more speed and runs down with break squeal, and switches off when the throttle is turned down to less than 50%.....

Not sure how Murphy's chip is set, so the above is an example

Eoin

[DJ Dangerous]

2 minutes ago, murrayec said:

The ESU chip does run in DC with limited sound, generally they are set to startup the engine at 50% of the throttle, the loco will drive from there with more throttle applied, the engine sound runs up with the more speed and runs down with break squeal, and switches off when the throttle is turned down to less than 50%.....

Not sure how Murphy's chip is set, so the above is an example

Eoin

Thank you, that sounds interesting.

[Noel]

Started the process to weather this 121 this evening. Will finish up tomorrow. Took the walkway rails back off for access.

22 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Did I read somewhere that the 121 has limited sound available, even on DC?

Or is that a different loco?

Yes the prime mover (engine) and brake sounds work on DC as well as the marker lights.

[Georgeconna]

Looking good Noel.

I Picked up a sound chip today, Very nice Engine noise, however much fewer functions when compared to the 071 jobbie, Headlight and side lights not separately controllable like the 071. Not even a fade out function on it, not to mind a Guards whistle, Church Bells, Late Late Theme tune etc..ah well. Almost like a Hornby TTS Decoder at twice the price. ( I know switches in the bonnet Dave)

The only Mapping I am able to do is with a OSI one and Compass.

The Grey does look nice in the flesh, I am gonna dig out come Green coaches tomorrow and have play about.

 

[Mike 84C]

Noel, I wondered who would be first with the weathering! Are you using powders or light washes plus dry brushing? it would be so easy to just kill that livery.

[Old Blarney]

Gang, 

I too have been experimenting this evening with the functions on the "Murphy Models 121 Sound Decoder" The information printed on/in the Decoder Packaging is somewhat misleading. It does not cover any of the additional functions to be found on this Decoder. 

I use Digitrax equipment to control; my model railways - Using the additional function switches 13 to 19 and 20Plus will allow you access to many more features embedded in this decoder. For example F14 will allow you to control the increase in throttle revs, whilst F15  controls the reduction in throttle revs. There are other functions too, rail clack and Guard's whistle are both there, but I have now forgotten their function button numbers. Have a wee experiment - there are many functions beyond those shown on the packaging. 

And,a very big "Thank you" to a certain contributor on this page for his assistance on how to correctly install this sound chip.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Old Blarney

[Sleeper]

That dark weathering really shows up the see through side vents, nice job Noel

Edited September 26, 2020 by Sleeper

[DJ Dangerous]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Started the process to weather this 121 this evening. Will finish up tomorrow. Took the walkway rails back off for access.

Yes the prime mover (engine) and brake sounds work on DC as well as the marker lights.

 

That's great, thanks!

I would like an IR / IE 121 for my Mk3 PP set which will run on a DC shuttle controller, so a little sound will be nice.

Lovely weathering job, Noel!

I wonder if you could be bribed to fly south for a few weeks.....

[WRENNEIRE]

Knock yourselves out people:

Key   Function 

 

F0     Headlights Front/Rear

F1     Sound on/off 

F2     Air Horn (high) 

F3     Air Horn (low) 

F4     Rear lights off/on (bonnet end)

F5     Front lights off/on (cab end)

F6     Acceleration/brake time, shunting mode/shunting speed

F7     Curve Squeal 

F8     Hand Brake 

F9     Radiator Fan 

F10   Compressor 

F11   Coupler Clank 

F12   Brake release / Brake apply 

F13   Open / Close Cab Door 

F14   Diesel manual notching (up)

F15   Diesel manual notching (down)

F16   Manual Notching Logic 

F17   Automatic Brake Emergency 

F18   Dynamic Brake

F19   Conductor's Signal 10 331 80

F20   Sound Fader

F21   Isolation Switch (disconnect diesel engine from generator)

F22   Sanding Valve 

F23   Air Dryer 

F24   RailClank (4 different Rail Clank Sounds. Select via CV164 Value 0-3)

F25   Valve 

F26   Disable Brake Squeal Sound  

[Noel]

14 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Noel, I wondered who would be first with the weathering! Are you using powders or light washes plus dry brushing? it would be so easy to just kill that livery.

Hi Mike. Cheers, its 90% done using weathering powders in wet solution with a little airbrush for the bogies, under frame and valance plus buffer beam, a tiny bit on the cab roof and near exhaust as well. Noel