IRM Fert Wagon

[NIRCLASS80]

10 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

We're getting there Gareth, but without a real one it proved to be the stumbling block in the whole 42 ft project and held it up somewhat. But, finally, we have all the data we need so it should be not too far after the liners.

Cheers!

Fran

Great stuff. Just trying to figure out when to rob a bank !

[Noel]

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

We're getting there Gareth, but without a real one it proved to be the stumbling block in the whole 42 ft project and held it up somewhat. But, finally, we have all the data we need so it should be not too far after the liners.

Cheers!

Fran

Thanks for update Fran, and just when might the liners be expected? Noel

[WaYSidE]

The corrosion and rust on fertilizer wagons must have been fast and furious,  even if bagged, those bags musta occasionally burst,  i suppose modelling the prototype requires a lot of weathering.

The thought occurs, fert, ammonia, coal, cut timber, oil and cement wagons were all hauling the materials that were corrosive and went along way towards causing climate change. The sperry used a number of chemicals, many still present in the watertable, even roundup has many detractors. Some guinness kegs destroyed families where drink got outta control.  Your capturing an Era of immense environmental destruction, All on a rail system that these days is an answer to climate change and more. 

Ballast, and molasses was probably one of the few not so polluting main stream goods hauled.

 

[jhb171achill]

I’ll take ten!

[Broithe]

12 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I’ll take ten!

Definitely a growing market...

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, WaYSidE said:

The corrosion and rust on fertilizer wagons must have been fast and furious,  even if bagged, those bags musta occasionally burst,  i suppose modelling the prototype requires a lot of weathering.

The thought occurs, fert, ammonia, coal, cut timber, oil and cement wagons were all hauling the materials that were corrosive and went along way towards causing climate change. The sperry used a number of chemicals, many still present in the watertable, even roundup has many detractors. Some guinness kegs destroyed families where drink got outta control.  Your capturing an Era of immense environmental destruction, All on a rail system that these days is an answer to climate change and more. 

Ballast, and molasses was probably one of the few not so polluting main stream goods hauled.

 

The door panels in the ferts were a sort of very heavy plywood. Whatever was in the fertiliser didn't seem to cause any unusual amount of corrosion on the metal parts - I saw them close up all the time.

The plywood tended to get quite weatherbeaten towards the end, and I saw a few unpainted panels a couple of times.

Livery note, now that I think of it: pre-1987 they carried the CIE roundel, originally on the 2nd door along, looking side on. Towards 1987 doors were getting mixed up and while most remained as described, occasional variations became more common as door were replaced in different positions. On at least one occasion I saw one with two logos, on the 2nd & 3rd doors (beside one another). Naturally, logos were applied in white like on all CIE stock, but if modelling with logos in different positions, or none at all, as also happened, heavy weathering to a "brake-dusted" shade of "off"-white becomes obligatory.

As with most types of wagons, after IE came along in 1987, no logos were applied at all.

[h gricer]

On 7/28/2018 at 5:30 AM, Mayner said:

The bogie fertiliser wagons were originally rated at 40 ton capacity and appear to have been uprated to 48tons at some stage during the IE era. 

These were uprated wagons to carry Bord na Móna briquettes from Thurles to North Wall, the briquettes would be unloaded adjacent to the old L.N.W.R station in the Holyhead Yard North Wall.

Regards

h.gricer

[DiveController]

Are you saying there was a specific subset upgraded to carry 48T or all were upgraded, and were there any physical modifications performed or they were just re-rated at 48T?

 

[h gricer]

Bord na Móna peat briquettes inside a 48ton fertiliser wagon in North Wall 3rd October 1993, briquette trains usually 8 bogies, unlike fert trains 10 bogies, peat briquettes are super heavy, try carrying 1 bale from the supermarket, the 48 ton wagons and 40 ton wagons were clearly marked.

Regards

h.gricer

[h gricer]

On 5/17/2019 at 5:02 AM, DiveController said:

Are you saying there was a specific subset upgraded to carry 48T or all were upgraded, and were there any physical modifications performed or they were just re-rated at 48T?

 

YES!!!! These were strengthen wagons to take the increased weight of the Bord na Móna peat briquettes  and it was very clearly marked on the wagons to avoid a mistake being made, loading briquettes into a 40toner could have disastrous consequences even with the timber markers, the 40ton wagons only fully loaded over the bogies and limited loading in the centre, timber markers preventing higher loading, the 48 toners were ungraded and strengthen, when the peat briquette traffic finished, the 48 toners continued in use for fertiliser traffic and I noticed on several occasions fully loaded in the centre, ah yes, I notice back in 1995 a new 201class locomotive hauling 10 48 toners out of Shelton Abbey, I'm surprise that a thread has run to 4 pages about fert wagons and no mention of Bord na Móna peat briquettes, the 48toners got a new contract in transporting coal to a fuel merchant at Cabra adjacent to the cement depot, but only 2 trains ran, the business didn't fully materialise, that's another story.

Regards

h.gricer

[Irishswissernie]

Thanks HG, I for one (probably one of many!) didn't know about the Peat briquette traffic. On examining some of my negatives the lettering on the up-graded wagons is apparent.

Ernie

[warb]

A few fert photos

[Mayner]

6 hours ago, h gricer said:

 I'm surprise that a thread has run to 4 pages about fert wagons and no mention of Bord na Móna peat briquettes, the 48toners got a new contract in transporting coal to a fuel merchant at Cabra adjacent to the cement depot, but only 2 trains ran, the business didn't fully materialise, that's another story.

Regards

h.gricer

The BNM traffic rings a bell arose as a result of clean air legislation introduced to eliminate air pollution from coal fires in the Dublin area during the late 1980s, during winter smog from coal fires was really bad in many of the suburbs before widespread conversion to natural gas heating. 

Did not realise that a couple of coal trains operated to Cabra Bank though the yard seems to have been used as a staging point for fertiliser trains to and from the south and west.

For a long time CIE realised the development potential of Cabra Bank and discontinued the railborne bulk cement traffic to Dublin in order to sell the site, following the opening of the M50 between the N2 & N7  it may have been marginally more profitable for IE to supply the concrete plants in the Dublin area direct by road from Platin than by rail and road through Cabra Bank.

[DiveController]

11 hours ago, h gricer said:

YES!!!! These were strengthen wagons to take the increased weight of the Bord na Móna peat briquettes  and it was very clearly marked on the wagons to avoid a mistake being made, loading briquettes into a 40toner could have disastrous consequences even with the timber markers, the 40ton wagons only fully loaded over the bogies and limited loading in the centre, timber markers preventing higher loading, the 48 toners were ungraded and strengthen, when the peat briquette traffic finished, the 48 toners continued in use for fertiliser traffic and I noticed on several occasions fully loaded in the centre, ah yes, I notice back in 1995 a new 201class locomotive hauling 10 48 toners out of Shelton Abbey, I'm surprise that a thread has run to 4 pages about fert wagons and no mention of Bord na Móna peat briquettes, the 48toners got a new contract in transporting coal to a fuel merchant at Cabra adjacent to the cement depot, but only 2 trains ran, the business didn't fully materialise, that's another story.

Regards

h.gricer

I too did not know anything of the BnM briquettes bet certainly understand John's comments and remember the drive to use cleaner fuels to combat smog in the 80s.

Do you know what the external differences were between the 40T and 48T after they were strengthened?

[Mayner]

4 hours ago, DiveController said:

I too did not know anything of the BnM briquettes bet certainly understand John's comments and remember the drive to use cleaner fuels to combat smog in the 80s.

Do you know what the external differences were between the 40T and 48T after they were strengthened?

I suddenly realised how bad the smog in Dublin was when I returned home from London for the Christmas holidays during the late 80s early 90s

I vaguely remember seeing Bogie Fertiliser wagons laden with briquettes from Littleton in the Holyhead Yard when I was working in the port area during the late 90s, I was more interested in the intermodal operations at the time with the new gantry crane and new bunded storage area for tanked container storage and the daily Liner down the Alexandra Road Tramway to the new Merchant Ferry Terminal.

The BNM traffic for the Dublin market arose following the closure of Lullymore and the opening of the new Littleton briquette plant.

9 hours ago, warb said:

A few fert photos

 

 

 

 

Great photo of the MK1 flat wagon I have been looking for one for years!

[popeye]

The set of wheels on top are for the bogie man. 

[DJ Dangerous]

On 21/5/2019 at 3:23 AM, DiveController said:

I too did not know anything of the BnM briquettes bet certainly understand John's comments and remember the drive to use cleaner fuels to combat smog in the 80s.

Do you know what the external differences were between the 40T and 48T after they were strengthened?

Sounds like the timber markers were removed, at the very least, but I wonder if there were any other differences externally?

IRM pallets of briquettes next!

[murphaph]

The above excellent pic of the briquettes certainly suggests that the wooden limiting boards were removed as it would have been impossible to load the wagon like that with the boards in place. So I'm assuming the laden 48 tonne wagons at least occasionally looked something like this:

[iarnrod]

The fert pallets with the IFI decals added certainly looks the part.

[DB JOE]

Those decals really look good. Are they available ???

[murphaph]

2 minutes ago, DB JOE said:

Those decals really look good. Are they available ???

Available from an inkjet printer near you 

[Westcorkrailway]

2 hours ago, murphaph said:

The above excellent pic of the briquettes certainly suggests that the wooden limiting boards were removed as it would have been impossible to load the wagon like that with the boards in place. So I'm assuming the laden 48 tonne wagons at least occasionally looked something like this:

Is it an easy process removing the pallets and puttin on the IFI decals? Living in a farm myself here. They do look class!

[murphaph]

Yeah it's very forgiving too. You just need white transfer paper (not clear!). Print off the decals in photo quality on a half decent printer. I only have an inkjet printer, but I presume it would work on a colour laser printer as well. Let the ink dry well then seal with a light coat of clear varnish. Let dry well then cut into rectangles.

Cut out a slightly larger rectangle than the top of the load. Apply microset to load top and sides around the top. Let decal soften in water but really only just as long as it takes to come loose then take it out and slide decal onto top, folding the edges down. The white transfer paper is now your fake outer plastic wrap around the sacks. Looks fairly close to the pics I've seen. No need to do the sides for the wagon loads as you can't see them

For a bit more definition between the pallet loads (remember the double height models are two pallets top and bottom) apply some micro sol just between the pallets so the transfer sucks in along that line only. Don't apply it to the whole top or the transfer will suck in around the individual sacks which is not really what you want.

[iarnrod]

On 2/7/2022 at 9:36 AM, DJ Dangerous said:

Sounds like the timber markers were removed, at the very least, but I wonder if there were any other differences externally?

IRM pallets of briquettes next!

I think the only thing externally was the stencilling, but possibly modifications were made to the underframe and the bogie springs uprated.

If you look closely at the photo of the fert wagon loaded with the briquettes, you will notice that the briquettes seem to be loaded into some kind of a cage that fits inside the compartments of the fert wagon.

[murphaph]

Can we try to summarise the origins of the loads and the loading points for the ferts:

-IFI Shelton Abbey, rail served

-Albatross New Ross, rail served

-Gouldings Askeaton?, loaded at Foynes?

-Gouldings Cork?, loaded??

-Bord na Mona, where? loaded where?

-Coal, short lived but prototypical so of interest for sure. From where? 

Can someone fill in the blanks? What years were these flows in operation?

I always thought it was just IFI Shelton Abbey to the rest of the country but it seems these wagons did much more than that. 

[Westcorkrailway]

14 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Can we try to summarise the origins of the loads and the loading points for the ferts:

-IFI Shelton Abbey, rail served

-Albatross New Ross, rail served

-Gouldings Askeaton?, loaded at Foynes?

-Gouldings Cork?, loaded??

-Bord na Mona, where? loaded where?

-Coal, short lived but prototypical so of interest for sure. From where? 

Can someone fill in the blanks? What years were these flows in operation?

I always thought it was just IFI Shelton Abbey to the rest of the country but it seems these wagons did much more than that. 

Gouldings was loaded in Cork from the former Albert quay Terminus. Which didn’t close long after these wagons were introduced. 

[murphaph]

So Gouldings in Cork was gone as an origin by my era (1995) then? I see Gouldings pallets in some of the pics above so they definitely continued to carry Gouldings branded fertiliser. Would this have come from Foynes then by the mid 90s?

[iarnrod]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Can we try to summarise the origins of the loads and the loading points for the ferts:

-IFI Shelton Abbey, rail served

-Albatross New Ross, rail served

-Gouldings Askeaton?, loaded at Foynes?

-Gouldings Cork?, loaded??

-Bord na Mona, where? loaded where?

-Coal, short lived but prototypical so of interest for sure. From where? 

Can someone fill in the blanks? What years were these flows in operation?

I always thought it was just IFI Shelton Abbey to the rest of the country but it seems these wagons did much more than that. 

Cawoods coal trial lasted for about a month, with maybe 6 trains in total. These ran in July 1989. The coal was shipped to Warrenpoint from Ellesmere Port. From Warrenpoint, the coal was taken by road to Dundalk Barrack St. Taken by rail from Barrack St. to Arklow. Train size was anything from 14-27 wagons. Mostly hauled by A Class locos, but the 27 wagon train was hauled by 2 x 141's. Have only ever seen one photo of this working in an IRRS journal. Cawoods coal was carried in 20' containers, as modelled by Accurascale and hauled on 22' CIE wagons; not fert wagons.

I think that there might have been more than one trial with briquettes over the years. There was one for a period in 1990 from the Bord na Mona Littleton Works in Co. Tipperary to North Wall.

Gouldings had a siding in Waterford in the 1990's, as pretty sure the factory was located there by then. Possibly also another Gouldings siding/factory in the Sligo area back in the 1990's. Gouldings actually still exist today with factories at Askeaton, New Ross, Cork and Ardee.

Edited July 6, 2022 by iarnrod

[patrick]

Was fertilizer traffic seasonal?

[iarnrod]

2 minutes ago, patrick said:

Was fertilizer traffic seasonal?

Fertiliser trains ran all year from Shelton Abbey. Possible heavier demand at certain times of the year for fertiliser, but trains ran all the time.

[Bob229]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

So Gouldings in Cork was gone as an origin by my era (1995) then? I see Gouldings pallets in some of the pics above so they definitely continued to carry Gouldings branded fertiliser. Would this have come from Foynes then by the mid 90s?

Albert Quay was closed by then now part of the South City link Road, Goulding still in Cork,  ferts traffic may have been loaded at Kent Station yard

[Westcorkrailway]

23 minutes ago, Bob229 said:

Albert Quay was closed by then now part of the South City link Road, Goulding still in Cork,  ferts traffic may have been loaded at Kent Station yard

Possibly by penrose quay, or perhaps that was done in the north esk? 
 

 

[Bob229]

14 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Possibly by penrose quay, or perhaps that was done in the north esk? 
 

 

Probably Penrose Quay nearer to Gouldings site on centre park Road,  North Esk more for containers although it did handle Guinness keg liners 

16 hours ago, murphaph said:

Can we try to summarise the origins of the loads and the loading points for the ferts:

-IFI Shelton Abbey, rail served

-Albatross New Ross, rail served

-Gouldings Askeaton?, loaded at Foynes?

-Gouldings Cork?, loaded??

-Bord na Mona, where? loaded where?

-Coal, short lived but prototypical so of interest for sure. From where? 

Can someone fill in the blanks? What years were these flows in operation?

I always thought it was just IFI Shelton Abbey to the rest of the country but it seems these wagons did much more than that. 

Thurles was another depot 

[murphaph]

What originated in Thurles Bob? Fertiliser or briquettes?

[Bob229]

2 hours ago, murphaph said:

What originated in Thurles Bob? Fertiliser or briquettes?

Fertiliser trains were unloaded in Thurles goods yard