Hattons launch 'Irish' range of Genesis Coaches

[David Holman]

While overall, the 'Irish Market' may be small compared to GB, there is no doubt that any and every announcement of something then creates a lot of interest and enthusiasm, as per the posts above. The problem is that it may not be enough in terms of overall sales to make it worthwhile. And yet...

... increasingly we see what can only be described as 'niche' models being released over here that you have to wonder who is going to buy them? The 10800 prototype diesel, the Leader, even Big Bertha, the Lickey Banker. How many can justify one of those??

 So perhaps there is yet hope for more Irish stuff, though will not hold my breath for anything in 7mm scale!

[Galteemore]

The quality of so much UK RTR until fairly recently was such that it was really only of use for running or butchering - it really wasn’t display case material. The advent of hi-fidelity finish means that UK RTR items are now objets d’art in their own right. I’m guessing that many of these locos are bought either as investments or layout candy, as very few prototypical layouts can justify one! I’m still holding out for a 7:20 Mixed set, with 0-6-4T, clerestory coach and wagons, with a set of Eire and NI customs officials…..

[BosKonay]

I think new disruptive manufacturers like accurascale has shaken up the Uk significantly and the offshoot has been more Irish models as a result! 

[Wexford70]

3 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

I think new disruptive manufacturers like accurascale has shaken up the Uk significantly and the offshoot has been more Irish models as a result! 

I think the work IRM and Paddy Murphy have done has created  / demonstrated a viable market with loyal collectors. The range of models available, especially the recent A Class has been a game changer. 

 

 

 

[J-Mo Arts]

2 hours ago, David Holman said:

While overall, the 'Irish Market' may be small compared to GB, there is no doubt that any and every announcement of something then creates a lot of interest and enthusiasm, as per the posts above. The problem is that it may not be enough in terms of overall sales to make it worthwhile. And yet...

... increasingly we see what can only be described as 'niche' models being released over here that you have to wonder who is going to buy them? The 10800 prototype diesel, the Leader, even Big Bertha, the Lickey Banker. How many can justify one of those??

 So perhaps there is yet hope for more Irish stuff, though will not hold my breath for anything in 7mm scale!

Bear in mind that Leader and Bertha are being made by KR Models, who seem to specialise in doing weird stuff. Fingers crossed they consider CC1 at some point! 

 

In terms of sales, we have seen 108 replies of enthusiasm in this thread (this one not included) but I do wonder if a company made a new-tooling Irish wagon, whether there would be the 3,000+ sales required to make it financially viable. A new livery on an existing product is much easier to do, and can drop the required sales down to 500 or less.

[Liam_Murph]

Seen this announcement sent me back to trawling through the 1960's photo album on flickr to get inspiration for tying in these coaches to a scene.

Is the coach here one of the full brake 6 wheelers or a brake 2nd?

 

[Galteemore]

8 minutes ago, Liam_Murph said:

Seen this announcement sent me back to trawling through the 1960's photo album on flickr to get inspiration for tying in these coaches to a scene.

Is the coach here one of the full brake 6 wheelers or a brake 2nd?

 

Full brake 

[DJ Dangerous]

2 hours ago, BosKonay said:

I think new disruptive manufacturers like accurascale has shaken up the Uk significantly and the offshoot has been more Irish models as a result! 

 

LOL, IRM / Accurascale are the bad boys of the scene. Go sit in a corner for being disruptive!

Off topic, but have you murdered and buried warbonnet and Garfield? They're suspiciously absent lately... Or are they off enjoying some winter sun somewhere a few thousand km south? I hear that the weather's great up in Ireland lately.

[Warbonnet]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

LOL, IRM / Accurascale are the bad boys of the scene. Go sit in a corner for being disruptive!

Off topic, but have you murdered and buried warbonnet and Garfield? They're suspiciously absent lately... Or are they off enjoying some winter sun somewhere a few thousand km south? I hear that the weather's great up in Ireland lately.

No sleep till Warley! And in a few days @Garfield will have no sleep for the next 18 years or so... 

[Broithe]

4 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

And in a few days @Garfield will have no sleep for the next 18 years or so... 

As with all these "forthcoming projects", it can be difficult to remember what livery version you ordered all those months ago.

[Galteemore]

Will IRM be releasing a wooden range in the next few years ? 21mm gauge of course…

[DJ Dangerous]

10 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

No sleep till Warley! And in a few days @Garfield will have no sleep for the next 18 years or so... 

Congratulations all around so!!!

[J-Mo Arts]

11 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

No sleep till Warley! And in a few days @Garfield will have no sleep for the next 18 years or so... 

Does that mean some Irish announcements at Warley?

[leslie10646]

4 hours ago, Galteemore said:

The quality of so much UK RTR until fairly recently was such that it was really only of use for running or butchering - it really wasn’t display case material. The advent of hi-fidelity finish means that UK RTR items are now objets d’art in their own right. I’m guessing that many of these locos are bought either as investments or layout candy, as very few prototypical layouts can justify one! I’m still holding out for a 7:20 Mixed set, with 0-6-4T, clerestory coach and wagons, with a set of Eire and NI customs officials…..

You're right about the Display Case point.

I have no reason to have -

Kernow's Bulleid diesel, a West Country pacific, a T9, Pullman coaches, a S15, a Q1, 18.201 (a 100mph East German Pacific); Chinese QJ (2-10-2), a SS8 electric, a DF5 diesel and a WD in Kowloon Canton Railway colours. I even have a Swiss Re4/4 in KCR colours (they had two); finally some Rhaetian Railway locos and coaches

- except to have them in a glass case where I can ogle them?

Actually, with the exception of the Bulleid diesel, I've travelled behind all of them!

[leslie10646]

2 hours ago, Liam_Murph said:

Seen this announcement sent me back to trawling through the 1960's photo album on flickr to get inspiration for tying in these coaches to a scene.

Is the coach here one of the full brake 6 wheelers or a brake 2nd?

 

As Galteemore says above, a six wheel full brake -  a similar one was on the 1964 Grand Tour and I have shots of one in BnT on the IRRS St Pat's Day tour to Youghal when it had the honour of being hauled by Class VS 207 Boyne. 

So well done Hattons for doing their homework ( or using the right Consultant!) and producing it in this livery.

[jhb171achill]

12 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

As Galteemore says above, a six wheel full brake -  a similar one was on the 1964 Grand Tour and I have shots of one in BnT on the IRRS St Pat's Day tour to Youghal when it had the honour of being hauled by Class VS 207 Boyne. 

So well done Hattons for doing their homework ( or using the right Consultant!) and producing it in this livery.

That's full brake 1077, one of seemingly only three (but possibly 4) which were repainted into this livery. This one didn't last much longer than that tour.

1 hour ago, J-Mo Arts said:

Does that mean some Irish announcements at Warley?

When the term "IRM" is mentioned these days in the same sentence as the word "announcement", drooling goes into overdrive.

23 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

You're right about the Display Case point.

I have no reason to have -

Kernow's Bulleid diesel, a West Country pacific, a T9, Pullman coaches, a S15, a Q1, 18.201 (a 100mph East German Pacific); Chinese QJ (2-10-2), a SS8 electric, a DF5 diesel and a WD in Kowloon Canton Railway colours. I even have a Swiss Re4/4 in KCR colours (they had two); finally some Rhaetian Railway locos and coaches

- except to have them in a glass case where I can ogle them?

Actually, with the exception of the Bulleid diesel, I've travelled behind all of them!

In MY case, the showcase items would be an Indonesian B50 2.4.0, if I could get someone to make one up for me, an Indian metre-gauge YP and YG, and a South African 6J!

[Westcorkrailway]

13 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

When the term "IRM" is mentioned these days in the same sentence as the word "announcement", drooling goes into overdrive.

I’ve noticed that, like we have just had 

4 big announcements from IRM

2 big announcements from MM

1 big announcement from hattons 

JM designs possibly getting 3D printing again 

 

virtually every era has had representation in the past month! From GSR to 2022. does The bank account really top up that fast! 
 

 

[J-Mo Arts]

28 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 does The bank account really top up that fast! 

It does if you are any of the aforementioned manufacturers! 

[spudfan]

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

Will IRM be releasing a wooden range in the next few years ? 21mm gauge of course…

I have heard that some modern locos suffer from "mazak" rot. By the looks of this model it should be safe from this disease but how sure can you be it will not suffer from woodworm in the future? It could decimate your whole collection. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by spudfan

[Westcorkrailway]

Sammy has covered the Irish stuff in his most recent video model railway news  (it’s only these and the 3D printing bits I find good content!)

 

He plans on pairing the Black and Tan genesis coach with his 121 as there the same livery…
 

Who’s gonna tell him 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Westcorkrailway

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, spudfan said:

I have heard that some modern locos suffer from "mazak" rot. By the looks of this model it should be safe from this disease but how sure can you be it will not suffer from woodworm in the future? It could decimate your whole collection. 

Is that thing DCC fitted?

 

18 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Sammy has covered the Irish stuff in his most recent video model railway news  (it’s only these and the 3D printing bits I find good content!)

 

He plans on pairing the Black and Tan genesis coach as there the same livery…
 

Who’s gonna tell him 

Mind you, a 121 could just about have hauled six-wheelers on a Youghal excursion - but only in the year 1962! However, the loco would have been grey and yellow, and the six-wheelers green.

In terms of the black'n'tan full brake, one at least DID run behind 121s in both the grey and yellow, and black and tan liveries - but not, obviously, the supertrain version.

[leslie10646]

9 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

No sleep till Warley! And in a few days @Garfield will have no sleep for the next 18 years or so... 

Best wishes and prayers for Mrs Garfield.

Eighteen years? I still worry about mine 48 years on ......

Mind you the 48 year old has 350 clever folk working for him in Swords.

As for the granchildren (one and three) - yes, glad not to be under the same roof at nights.

[Horsetan]

19 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

You're right about the Display Case point.

I have no reason to have -

...., 18.201 (a 100mph East German Pacific); ....

Et tu, Brute? Et tu? Actually mine does get a run now and then, and she has the extra tender for additional water capacity....

What you really need is a Br.45 2-10-2, and a Br.85 2-10-2T. Just those two are already a lot to look at.

There's no reason for having German engines other than the fact that I like them, and occasionally they come up very cheaply on eBay. From 1926, they were up to 25 years ahead of Britain when it came to standardisation.

Before the Wagner standard era, there were things like this Saxon XX HV 2-8-2. This model came cheap because - as the photos show - it was slightly broken, but it works. The real 19.017 still exists but has never steamed in preservation; it owes its survival to having been used by the Halle research facility as a brake test engine during the East German DR era, and is the only one (of three Br.19s kept by Halle) that escaped being massively rebuilt.

[chris]

whats "eau-de-nil", is this the colour of the light green logo / number & lining?

Edited November 17, 2022 by chris

[DJ Dangerous]

5 minutes ago, chris said:

whats "eau-de-nil", is this the colour of the light green logo / number & lining?

Yup, " Water of the Nile (river)" green.

[Horsetan]

12 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Yup, " Water of the Nile (river)" green.

...although nowadays, it's probably more brown than green because of decades of pollution.

[leslie10646]

59 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

...although nowadays, it's probably more brown than green because of decades of pollution.

Just like the colour of The Blue Danube!

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, chris said:

whats "eau-de-nil", is this the colour of the light green logo / number & lining?

Yes

A very pale green.

[Lambeg man]

9 hours ago, Horsetan said:

..although nowadays, it's probably more brown than green because of decades of pollution.

We were on our Nile cruise boat in 2000 and my wife standing by the edge of the boat looking at the water. She then turned to me and said "No wonder everyone is ill, I've just watched them washing the plates from breakfast in the river water". "No surprise." says I as the water was VERY brown. A few minutes later she turns to  me again and says "Do you know a dead donkey has just floated past?" "No." says I. "But if you hum it I'll give it a go." BOOM BOOM!

[Broithe]

The thing is that The Nile, as seen by most people, is made up from the waters of the White Nile and the Blue Nile.

So, eau-de-nil should really be light blue, surely?

Edited November 17, 2022 by Broithe

[jhb171achill]

13 minutes ago, Broithe said:

The thing is that The Nile, as seen by most people, is made up from the waters of the White Nile and the Blue Nile.

So, eau-de-nil should really be light blue, surely?

With a dead donkey logo in it…

[Westcorkrailway]

31 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

With a dead donkey logo in it…

Dead donkey does not have the same catch as the flying snail does it….

[amdaley]

There was a tv series called "Drop the Dead Donkey"

Maybe that was filmed on the Nile 

[Westcorkrailway]

On 16/11/2022 at 12:11 AM, Mayner said:

The West Cork had a thing about "shortie" (32') bogie coaches during the 1890s a time when the MGWR was still building 6 wheel coaches for main line use, so some Hattons 6w bodies on bogies are a must for a steam era West Cork Layout.

Now you have me thinking how easy that would be to pull off…

Could 3d print or build a bogey with bogey frames. The footstep on a bogey coach would also be difficult to get right however 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Now you have me thinking how easy that would be to pull off…

Could 3d print or build a bogey with bogey frames. The footstep on a bogey coach would also be difficult to get right however 

 

 

Very good thinking.

Sourcing suitable short wheelbase bogies shouldn’t be a problem - with the double footboards hiding them, the “two-foot rule” may be liberally applied.

Many of the CBSCR “shorties” Mayner mentions were culled in early CIE days, but sat about for years in that museum graveyard that was Albert Quay. They were replaced by (I think five) ancient GSWR bogies of 35-40ft long, for excursions on the T & C. These feature in many pics at Courtmacsherry, even behind “C” class diesels, or double-headed 90 + 100.

These yokes, being ex-GSWR, are even MORE suitable for the Hattons stock, as the GSWR is by a very long way the closest design to them!

Latterly, with Cork’s inevitable sense of independence (!), they were in a non-standard livery - all-over DARK green, with no lining or snails, just a number. This seems to have been a Republic of Glanmire application to secondary stock, boy, as some ex-CBSC stock was similarly treated, boy.