ICR Update October 2024

[derek]

4 hours ago, James Regan said:

 I have a Porsche 911 and Porsche AG contacted me to see my level of interest in a battery powered 911. 

Spare me! I have a Porsche too - It is about 3 inches long and sits on a shelf above my train layout. Bet you tell nobody about your car?....... My late Mam had a good saying- "if you can't say anything good, say nothing at all". 

[irishthump]

Well done IRM for being open and transparent with their customers and also for making the effort to still deliver on as much as they possibly can. 

[Barl]

I'm glad to hear that there is still hope for the ICR's and thank IRM for being committed to projects and not just the dollar signs! I think it's been very clear from the ballast hoppers to the A Class and beyond that market research has been very thorough. 

As others have said the ICR's have been the mainstay of Irish Railways for over a decade and will be for the coming decades - I hope we don't end up in a similar situation to pre MM and IRM where people are complaining about having no 'prototypical' Irish RTR. 

I have a 4 car and 6 car set on pre-order - something I probably wouldn't have been able to do without the monthly payments option - and am considering a 3-car if funds allow in the coming weeks and I hope I will get to see them in the near future.

As for alternatives, I would love to see a 2600 some day but suggestions that IRM should have produced steam locos that the majority of that 30-45 age bracket (in my opinion) have never heard of, let alone seen, is never going to be viable! A current (or recent) RPSI loco would be a nice addition I think - J15 please

 

[James Regan]

2 hours ago, Barl said:

As for alternatives, I would love to see a 2600 some day but suggestions that IRM should have produced steam locos that the majority of that 30-45 age bracket (in my opinion) have never heard of, let alone seen, is never going to be viable! A current (or recent) RPSI loco would be a nice addition I think - J15 please

Thats the fantastic thing about most of the steam locomotives I mentioned, they're still in existence and most people with interest in Irish railways have ridden behind them or seen them in Cultra or Whitehead so everyone in each age bracket can share that experience and no matter what era you model they're likely appropriate, which includes Maeve No. 800, Slieve Gullion S Class, V Class No. 85 Merlin and of course the ever useful J15. I’ve noted several of you getting excited over the prospect of a Jinty, which had very limited use in Ireland. Imagine if you had one or several of the list above. IRM/Accurascale has the experience with steam with the GWR Manor class and the unit price may be attractive. 
 

i know OO works did some models and I have one but they are very basic. An IRM model would be a whole different league. 

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, James Regan said:

Thats the fantastic thing about most of the steam locomotives I mentioned, they're still in existence and most people with interest in Irish railways have ridden behind them or seen them in Cultra or Whitehead so everyone in each age bracket can share that experience and no matter what era you model they're likely appropriate, which includes Maeve No. 800, Slieve Gullion S Class, V Class No. 85 Merlin and of course the ever useful J15. I’ve noted several of you getting excited over the prospect of a Jinty, which had very limited use in Ireland. Imagine if you had one or several of the list above. IRM/Accurascale has the experience with steam with the GWR Manor class and the unit price may be attractive. 
 

i know OO works did some models and I have one but they are very basic. An IRM model would be a whole different league. 

IRM have anounced that they will have the tooling for a new Irish outline loco at this weekends MRSI exhibition so the decision on whether to produce a steam or diesel loco has already been made and we will all find out this weekend.

[BosKonay]

7 hours ago, Mayner said:

IRM have anounced that they will have the tooling for a new Irish outline loco at this weekends MRSI exhibition so the decision on whether to produce a steam or diesel loco has already been made and we will all find out this weekend.

Indeed, it's but the first of 4 new things we've to announce in the coming months, 2 of which are powered..... 

[Flying Snail]

4 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Indeed, it's but the first of 4 new things we've to announce in the coming months, 2 of which are powered..... 

wait, what did you just say???

[Georgeconna]

Just make sure your track is nice and level for all those lovely 4-4-0's!! any biteen of undulation is shown up!!

 

[mfjoc]

I think if you were to analyse the market, the vast majority of your customers are aged from 50 to 80 who are able to remember what a railway looked like. Loco hauled passenger and freight trains have now almost dissappeared, track has been rationalised and we are left with silver green tubes which transport a lot more passengers a lot more efficiently but don't generate any interest from the younger demographic. The only model train that kids are exposed to nowadays is Thomas the tank engine.  I am smack in the middle of the above age bracket and growing up was able to observe much of what was still a victorian steam railway albeit with diesel locos and 1950's and 1960's rolling stock. I worked in CIE during the 1980's so have chosen this era to model. I am extremly grateful to both Paddy Murphy and IRM for producing incredible scale models at very reasonable prices. I have bought full price examples of almost all the models that been produced so far that could have run somewhere in Ireland in the 1980's plus or minus a decade. The magnasite wagons seem to have been a commercial disaster which is a real pity as they are such beautiful models. I will buy Park Royals, H vans GSVs, C Class, Jeeps, 20 ton Brake vans etc etc as soon as these are produced.

I am sorry to say that the ICRs just don't row my boat which why I didn't order any.

[DJ Dangerous]

24 minutes ago, mfjoc said:

I think if you were to analyse the market, the vast majority of your customers are aged from 50 to 80 who are able to remember what a railway looked like.

 

ICR-fan-bashing aside, the market research would indicate that:

 

19 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

our biggest customer base is in the 30-45 age bracket (which is at odds with Accurascale, being 60+).

 

 

12 hours ago, James Regan said:

Thats the fantastic thing about most of the steam locomotives I mentioned, they're still in existence and most people with interest in Irish railways have ridden behind them or seen them in Cultra or Whitehead so everyone in each age bracket can share that experience and no matter what era you model they're likely appropriate, which includes Maeve No. 800, Slieve Gullion S Class, V Class No. 85 Merlin and of course the ever useful J15. I’ve noted several of you getting excited over the prospect of a Jinty, which had very limited use in Ireland. Imagine if you had one or several of the list above.

 

I think that you are falling into the same trap as I often do, @James Regan - if I really really really want it, there must be enough demand to run a few thousand models.

 

3 hours ago, BosKonay said:

Indeed, it's but the first of 4 new things we've to announce in the coming months, 2 of which are powered..... 

 

I see no mention of them being 1:76, so.....

O Gauge A Class and container flats, yay!

 

[GSR 800]

51 minutes ago, mfjoc said:

I think if you were to analyse the market, the vast majority of your customers are aged from 50 to 80 who are able to remember what a railway looked like. Loco hauled passenger and freight trains have now almost dissappeared, track has been rationalised and we are left with silver green tubes which transport a lot more passengers a lot more efficiently but don't generate any interest from the younger demographic. The only model train that kids are exposed to nowadays is Thomas the tank engine.  I am smack in the middle of the above age bracket and growing up was able to observe much of what was still a victorian steam railway albeit with diesel locos and 1950's and 1960's rolling stock. I worked in CIE during the 1980's so have chosen this era to model. I am extremly grateful to both Paddy Murphy and IRM for producing incredible scale models at very reasonable prices. I have bought full price examples of almost all the models that been produced so far that could have run somewhere in Ireland in the 1980's plus or minus a decade. The magnasite wagons seem to have been a commercial disaster which is a real pity as they are such beautiful models. I will buy Park Royals, H vans GSVs, C Class, Jeeps, 20 ton Brake vans etc etc as soon as these are produced.

I am sorry to say that the ICRs just don't row my boat which why I didn't order any.

IIRC the Irish market is quite a bit younger overall compared to the British market, 30-70 rather than 50-80. For some time here the 80s to early 2000s was the dominant era for modelling, as the rationalisation of the railway wasn't 'complete' until the delivery of the ICRs and the end of most freight in the late 2000s. Younger modellers like myself do tend in many cases to look towards older stock of the 50s and 60s which IRM is increasingly attending to. I would buy pretty much anything from that period if it passed through Mullingar and doesnt break the bank. When I can I'd like to buy a four-car ICR to give the odd modern twist on my layout. 

A C class is a good go too, fills a big gap and have plenty rtr to pull behind them. The Jeeps do not have the same luxury in rtr, though leslie is quite happy to supply spoil wagons! Most Irish steam is in an awkward spot in terms of rtr rolling stock to pull, and/or no. of locos in a class make it difficult to run compared to an A or C class. The Jeeps and GNR 4-4-0s can get away with pulling CIE 60s stock though.

 

Edited October 25 by GSR 800

[mphoey]

6 hours ago, BosKonay said:

Indeed, it's but the first of 4 new things we've to announce in the coming months, 2 of which are powered..... 

so 2 expensive items and 2 hopefully reasonable for the next few months but will look forward to the first steamer

 

[James Regan]

In case you were wondering what train you could pull with your Irish steam engine that coach looks very familiar…

[NIRCLASS80]

8 hours ago, BosKonay said:

Indeed, it's but the first of 4 new things we've to announce in the coming months, 2 of which are powered..... 

I’m still saving for that ultimate 80 class!

[murphaph]

29 minutes ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

I’m still saving for that ultimate 80 class!

You're not the only one. They will be awesome whenever they come.

[Auto-Train Original]

I know it is too late and the horse has bolted but I felt from the start this was a poor choice for IRM. Too big, ambitious and limted run. The RTE livery was a strange choice it has to be said.  But here we are, and fair play to IRM for being fortright. I hope everything works out for all parties in the end.

PS: I can think of at least a dozen example of Irish rolling stock off the top of my head that would have gained more interest.

[Fowler4f]

Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me !

[BosKonay]

1 hour ago, Auto-Train Original said:

PS: I can think of at least a dozen example of Irish rolling stock off the top of my head that would have gained more interest.

Do tell

[meathdane]

2 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Do tell

Turf burner, Fintona Horse, an Opel Kadett on train wheels, that one obscure potato powered steamer that ran somewhere in the Midlands for a day back in the late 1800s (missed a wide open goal on that one), the list goes on. 

 

But as a serious aside, being on the apparent younger side of the modellers, for me it's the variety of days gone by, I may have never seen a 141/181 pulling a fullen laden rake of Bullieds during Beet season, nor an A class pulling a rake of tankers, but it's the variety that we frankly don't get nowadays that draws me to that stuff. I may end up ordering an ICR yet, depending on what the announcements are like, I've only so much disposable income unfortunately, but I do like to support you lads wherever possible , I don't think I've missed any new tooled stuff from ye bar the Mk2a and ICR. But I do hope the ICR sales pick up for ye

[James Regan]

3 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Do tell

Be careful auto train the lads are a bit sensitive - you can say anything you want as long as its the official narrative that all was well except not enough customers were buying - nothing to do with the choice of product being banal and 900 euro or anything like that at all. 

1. “Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” - Winston Churchill.

[Fowler4f]

A bit of a lame horse !

Edited October 25 by Fowler4f

[James Regan]

You have a lot of customers on here explaining their reservations and it might be worthwhile to take that on board. As for models everyone here loves the C Class by all appearances. a G class isnt a large loco and would be fun for shunting and maybe a simplified version that the kids could play with a la Hornby railroad. Enterprise coaches or Mark IVs might be very appealing and cheaper to produce per unit than the railcar. A few people have knocked steam engines but the most popular train in the world isnt a railcar its Thomas and if you could tap that market with Owen the Irish engine you could hook a whole new generation. 

[Warbonnet]

15 minutes ago, James Regan said:

You have a lot of customers on here explaining their reservations and it might be worthwhile to take that on board. As for models everyone here loves the C Class by all appearances. a G class isnt a large loco and would be fun for shunting and maybe a simplified version that the kids could play with a la Hornby railroad. Enterprise coaches or Mark IVs might be very appealing and cheaper to produce per unit than the railcar. A few people have knocked steam engines but the most popular train in the world isnt a railcar its Thomas and if you could tap that market with Owen the Irish engine you could hook a whole new generation. 

To be honest James your argument falls flat on its face when we see wagons like the bulleids still in stock, a decent amount of Park Royal’s available to pre-order, and our orange and black mark 2s currently on sale following poorer than projected sales. 
 

I was glad to have a call from Paddy Murphy today who has read this thread and said he also has noted a slow down in the market when it comes to his releases in recent years.

This is beyond merely the ICRs.

 

[BosKonay]

39 minutes ago, James Regan said:

Be careful auto train the lads are a bit sensitive - you can say anything you want as long as its the official narrative that all was well except not enough customers were buying - nothing to do with the choice of product being banal and 900 euro or anything like that at all. 

1. “Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” - Winston Churchill.

To be fair James we’ve spent 9 years manufacturing a relatively enormous range spanning a huge time frame and have tested the market with everything from early era bullied to right bang up to date and lots in between. The only person displaying sensitivity to the point of rudeness I’m afraid is you so perhaps reign it in to constructive levels?

[mphoey]

20 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

To be honest James your argument falls flat on its face when we see wagons like the bulleids still in stock, a decent amount of Park Royal’s available to pre-order, and our orange and black mark 2s currently on sale following poorer than projected sales. 
 

I was glad to have a call from Paddy Murphy today who has read this thread and said he also has noted a slow down in the market when it comes to his releases in recent years.

This is beyond merely the ICRs.

 

i have to agree we are nearly back to the days of the original lima 201s they were available to buy for a good time after release easily. suddenly they were gone but the ammount of stuff released in the last 10 years has been exceptional and perhaps some modeleers no longer have the space capacity for more stock . IRM is going out on a limb with certain items especially with such a small market. Paddy murphys current 141s have not sold out yet whilst we all await the next batch of 071s is both IRM and Paddy Murphy considering that the market is oversaturated now compared to 10 years ago 

[NIRCLASS80]

No criticism here, I think we are very well served for such a small market. Just wondering is the 20’ container flat easily produced from the existing tooling? I think that would be a great little wagon to compliment the 42’ one. 

Also the amount of items on special reduction sales in many UK model shops shows a market downturn. 

[Broithe]

For those of us who are going to rely on others to manufacture things for us, we have to realise that 'the market' is what it is, a market.

People have to assess what they think will work for the market as a whole - and perfection in that prediction is unlikely.

There will be under- or over-estimates, particularly if the production system is a batch manufacture arrangement.

I'm happy for people who know more about the 'whole thing' to guess for me and then present me with options that I can take or leave.

And none of the risk is mine...

Twenty years ago, none of us would be imagining that the current availabilities were even worth dreaming about.
 

 

[Bob229]

58 minutes ago, James Regan said:

You have a lot of customers on here explaining their reservations and it might be worthwhile to take that on board. As for models everyone here loves the C Class by all appearances. a G class isnt a large loco and would be fun for shunting and maybe a simplified version that the kids could play with a la Hornby railroad. Enterprise coaches or Mark IVs might be very appealing and cheaper to produce per unit than the railcar. A few people have knocked steam engines but the most popular train in the world isnt a railcar its Thomas and if you could tap that market with Owen the Irish engine you could hook a whole new generation. 

If you don't like the ICR you can always buy something else, IRM have produced a fine of range of models from different era's and have a new announcement tomorrow. I do hope the ICR will proceed 

[Georgeconna]

10 hours ago, mfjoc said:

I think if you were to analyse the market, the vast majority of your customers are aged from 50 to 80 who are able to remember what a railway looked like. Loco hauled passenger and freight trains have now almost dissappeared, track has been rationalised and we are left with silver green tubes which transport a lot more passengers a lot more efficiently but don't generate any interest from the younger demographic. The only model train that kids are exposed to nowadays is Thomas the tank engine.  I am smack in the middle of the above age bracket and growing up was able to observe much of what was still a victorian steam railway albeit with diesel locos and 1950's and 1960's rolling stock. I worked in CIE during the 1980's so have chosen this era to model. I am extremly grateful to both Paddy Murphy and IRM for producing incredible scale models at very reasonable prices. I have bought full price examples of almost all the models that been produced so far that could have run somewhere in Ireland in the 1980's plus or minus a decade. The magnasite wagons seem to have been a commercial disaster which is a real pity as they are such beautiful models. I will buy Park Royals, H vans GSVs, C Class, Jeeps, 20 ton Brake vans etc etc as soon as these are produced.

I am sorry to say that the ICRs just don't row my boat which why I didn't order any.

Yeah the Mags are probably one of the best wagons in the range. Lovely Etch walkways etc. 

[Georgeconna]

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

 

I absolutely do not know how the continuous stream of UK stuff is even sustainable.

Something will give and as you say re price drops Rails have a sale each week at this stage. Even the Continental shops are banging out emails with % off. 

 

 

 

[Rob]

I can only speak for myself which l understand is not anything like representative of 'the overall market.'

l am sure IRM know their market better than anyone else given their success over the last decade or so.

l do fall into the popular 30 - 45 year old customer base and like modelling anything in the 2000's on so was absolutely delighted with the ICR offerings.

I also loved the Taras and the Container flats coupled with the Cravens and Mark 2D from Murphy Models for example, exactly what l wanted for my era.     

Non rail-wise, the Dublin Bus offering was brilliant for example.

I have no interest in Steam or the likes of bulleid wagons but totally understand how others would love these showing how difficult and fragmented a small lrish market is.

I would love the Mark IV complete with DVT for example, but recognise this would be niche in the greater scheme of things.

Everybody is entitled to views / opinions, but in reality IRM are best placed of any of us regarding lrish railway modelling.

Fingers crossed all goes well and lRM continue to provide us with such great offerings. 

 

[James Regan]

4 hours ago, BosKonay said:

To be fair James we’ve spent 9 years manufacturing a relatively enormous range spanning a huge time frame and have tested the market with everything from early era bullied to right bang up to date and lots in between. The only person displaying sensitivity to the point of rudeness I’m afraid is you so perhaps reign it in to constructive levels?

I’m sorry you feel it’s being rude to query the appeal of a particular product, as thats not my intention. A lot of posters here will tell you all is great and thats wonderful but this started with your concerns over sales and I’ve shared with you a different perspective which I felt might be helpful. Based on the lively debate that has ensued I think that may be the case. If you're not interested then so be it. 
 

Fran raised a fair point as to sales of other models. Personally, I will buy the Park Royals once they're further along and a rake of Bullieds would not go amiss, having spent part of my childhood living near Tuam sugar factory I have a particular fondness for them. I have money budgeted for you guys, Ive just been waiting for a reason to give it to you. I would definitely take more container liners too. I see MSC containers on recent trains, for example. I’m very likely to find whatever you announce this weekend appealing.
 

I’m not sure what the deal is about Paddys models but I already have about 25 141/181s so don't really need anymore, so that might have something to do with it. 

[Broithe]

I've given some thought to my own personal economic interactions with the IRM/MM/etc.

I look at what becomes available and decide what I want/need at the time.

Some things I buy, because I like them, rather than them fitting in properly with 'my scheme'.

I have most of what I want/need.

There is one significant thing which is still only there in the future and I have been reluctant to even admit what it is, as, with it being a 'real need', I live in dread of them actually doing it and cleaning me out.

If it has to happen eventually, I would like it to appear in late spring, when my general expenditure dips a bit for a while.

[mmie353]

I was hoping to get all of the ICRs, DCC sound but if it's not viable to do them all, I will take what I have ordered and hope that maybe down the line the ones that were not released this time around, being that IRM own the tooling for these, will there be consideration to release them later on?

[NorthWallDocker]

While this thread was playing out, I bought four IRM MK2 coaches and six Magnesite ore wagons.  The IRM MK2 coaches were sent from Dublin Friday and arrived in Chicago mid-day today, Monday.  They're beautiful.  I just wish I had more disposable income to dispose of with IRM models.