RedRich Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I am delighted for you lads's. A lot of work has been put in at your end and like everyone else I am looking forward to receiving mine when they arrive. This is an historical moment in the hobby for us anyway as I am not aware of a project like this happening before by members of a group. You have chosen the right prototype for the first wagon. I much prefer them to the Autoballasters. Rich, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Orders are now closed At the moment, the initial batch of 333 packs will all have the same numbers (it;s the manufacturers minimum) Yes, John, they will come already numbered, out of a shortlist of 12 running numbers. We're trying to organise the manufacture in such a way that different numbers will be available. DJM have indicated that factory produced and user applied decals is not a recommended solution from his past experience. Richie. I understood there would be twelve running numbers so that modellers buying four packs could potentially have individual running numbers on all wagons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi Kevin. Sorry but not sure where you heard that. It's always been 333 packs of 3 wagons with 3 individual numbers. They'll be easy enough to renumber though and we'll do a tutorial on how to do it when we get them. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 "out of a shortlist of 12 running numbers" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) out of a shortlist of 12 running numbers. We're trying to organise the manufacture in such a way that different numbers will be available I think this created the impression that you were aiming for twelve as modellers prefer individually numbered wagons and few will be running a rake of three ballasts:( Edited January 21, 2016 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi,will IRM ever produce any NIR rolling stock?Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Weshty'll be along in a minute..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iarnrod Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Is it possible to increase the initial batch run to, say, 400, 450 or 500 packs, or would you have to do another full batch of 333 packs? Was hoping to get a second batch of 5 packs, but am happy I at least have enough ordered for one full rake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi,will IRM ever produce any NIR rolling stock?Cheers. Oh there are some tidy NIR bits that are on our ever growing wishlist, but it's only that, a wishlist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR 800 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Weshty'll be along in a minute..... Looks like it'll be a busy year for him.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Is it possible to increase the initial batch run to, say, 400, 450 or 500 packs, or would you have to do another full batch of 333 packs? Was hoping to get a second batch of 5 packs, but am happy I at least have enough ordered for one full rake. It would seems to make sense that if if people were to 'order' on the website and actually pay at least the deposit. There may or may not be enough for a second run any time soon. Personally I'd be more interested in whatever might come after the bubbles. Many may prefer a new model rather than more of one already produced, at least in the near term Edited January 21, 2016 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Oh there are some tidy NIR bits that are on our ever growing wishlist, but it's only that, a wishlist. I would imagine it will all come down to demand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Is it possible to increase the initial batch run to, say, 400, 450 or 500 packs, or would you have to do another full batch of 333 packs? . . . I'm only guessing, but that might mean a delivery delay for the existing 333 order holders while they wait for the extra packs to be ordered and paid for before production starts. But small re-runs might be possible as the tooling costs would have already been absorbed and therefore the cost per unit lower, or rightly a bit of well earned profit for the business to fund other projects and make a return which is only fair for all the work, investment and risk taking. Hat's off guys for a clever startup strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Is it possible to increase the initial batch run to, say, 400, 450 or 500 packs, or would you have to do another full batch of 333 packs? Was hoping to get a second batch of 5 packs, but am happy I at least have enough ordered for one full rake. For you, or anyone else who missed the boat.... http://www.themodelshop.ie/model-railways/irish-railways/irish-rolling-stock/irish-railway-models-ballast-wagons-3-pk-pre-order.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I'm only guessing, but that might mean a delivery delay for the existing 333 order holders while they wait for the extra packs to be ordered and paid for before production starts. But small re-runs might be possible as the tooling costs would have already been absorbed and therefore the cost per unit lower, or rightly a bit of well earned profit for the business to fund other projects and make a return which is only fair for all the work, investment and risk taking. Hat's off guys for a clever startup strategy. Lads, please ease up on the speculation. Factories like the one we are engaged with provide all sorts of plastic to all sorts of companies, we are but a small fish in a very big pond. The die alone weighs a ton (figuratively) and you have to get a "slot" in which the wagon can be made. It will take little or no time to actually squirt plastic, it's the hand built nature of the item that takes time, along with painting, tampo printing of the decals, and boxing and shipping. Adding another chunk of wagons to the order would hold up delivery, and we'd like to see them dockside as soon as possible. We're well aware of demand etc., and when he have something to add to the discussion regarding any further production, you lads will be the first to know. Richie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 For you, or anyone else who missed the boat.... http://www.themodelshop.ie/model-railways/irish-railways/irish-rolling-stock/irish-railway-models-ballast-wagons-3-pk-pre-order.html So the run would have to be increased for the same delivery date or this is for sale on a secondary market. Wrenneire said he might have some for sale (possibly as singles) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR 800 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Unloaded at the north wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) So the run would have to be increased for the same delivery date or this is for sale on a secondary market. Wrenneire said he might have some for sale (possibly as singles) No. Again more speculation! Seamus Graham and Dave Bracken both have very dedicated customers, many of them Offline, and have graciously offered to retail them at shows and in Toymaster Portlaoise, at little or no gain for themselves. They sought an allocation of wagons packs prior to announcing, which is included within the 333 pack number. R Unloaded at the north wall? Yes, by one of the Guinness Boats, direct to the re-opening LMS offices...make a nice HQ for IRM actually Harry Edited January 21, 2016 by Glenderg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Thanks for all the support lads, it really makes taking this project on and indeed future ones a worthwhile and enjoyable enterprise for all of us. Roll on the next stage of the process and future announcements! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertRoche Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I've ordered two of these sets and am looking forward to the cement bubbles also. Well done all involved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Richie, that's exactly what I meant what you just stated. Merely that some of the models may be available from third parties other than directly from Irish Railway models as you have just confirmed. I didn't mention gain or anything else in that statement nor was it implied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Richie, that's exactly what I meant what you just stated. Merely that some of the models may be available from third parties other than directly from Irish Railway models as you have just confirmed. I didn't mention gain or anything else in that statement nor was it implied. I suppose they fall into a different category than folks who might buy them to resell them singly at an inflated price ebay and so on. I'd rather anyone who hasn't ordered go through those avenues first. They are doing this to support this venture first and foremost, and we are very grateful for their help. Now, if either of them manage to sell you more railway stock than you actually need whilst in their clutches, well, shur that's ye're own lookout! R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRENNEIRE Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I plan to sell these wagons at Bray and Stillorgan If anyone has missed out on an order give me a shout at either of these events or via PM I also plan to sell single wagons if you need one to make a rake of 10 or whatever, I dont think the lads will be selling individual ones ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I plan to sell these wagons at Bray and StillorganIf anyone has missed out on an order give me a shout at either of these events or via PM I also plan to sell single wagons if you need one to make a rake of 10 or whatever, I dont think the lads will be selling individual ones ? We wont' be splitting the packs. Edited January 22, 2016 by BosKonay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) They are identical wagons. I've even been asked by a customer to convert a rake to gypsum wagons. It involves no more than removing a few decals, replacing it with those from your favourite irish decal supplier, and painting the release wheels in the same bauxite that the wagons will come in. I'll even do tutorial on how do every variant possible with the chassis, magnasite included. I looked at Locos & Rolling Stock of CIE & NIR Doyle/Hirsch 2nd Ed. ('81) for the numbers for the gypsums and could only find one series 26666-94 on a 9'6" wheelbase. Initially I thought this was a error/typo so I got my hand on the 3rd Ed. 1987 where the same catalogue appears. Were there two separate sets of 20T gypsums as these ballasts (and just about everything else after the earlier 10' wheelbase wagons) are on a 12' wheelbase? :confused: Edited January 28, 2016 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I've had a look and on first glance it appears that there are indeed two wagons sharing the exact same upper proportions, but the under frame of 9'6" is akin to something 60 years earlier. Everything about the numbers screams "wrong" to me. The old ballast hoppers introduced in 1903 were 9'6" wheelbase, a standard that was regular then. page 66 8415-8422. I reckon it was GSWR hoppers renumbered , but the one shown as the photograph is an oddity all right. And just for fun I did changed the CAD on the ballast to have a 9'6" wheelbase, as opposed to 12" wheelbase, and it's positively funny. A full hopper would fall over even half full. There is NO way that the ballast wagon we are producing, ever ever had a 9'6" wheelbase, Perhaps J Stadt could shed some light on this? R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I've had a look and on first glance it appears that there are indeed two wagons sharing the exact same upper proportions, but the under frame of 9'6" is akin to something 60 years earlier. Everything about the numbers screams "wrong" to me. The old ballast hoppers introduced in 1903 were 9'6" wheelbase, a standard that was regular then. page 66 8415-8422. I reckon it was GSWR hoppers renumbered , but the one shown as the photograph is an oddity all right. And just for fun I did changed the CAD on the ballast to have a 9'6" wheelbase, as opposed to 12" wheelbase, and it's positively funny. A full hopper would fall over even half full. There is NO way that the ballast wagon we are producing, ever ever had a 9'6" wheelbase, Perhaps J Stadt could shed some light on this? R Both the GNR and CIE built 20ton Gypsum Hoppers of broadly similar design in the 1940s & 50s. Both types of wagon ran on a 9'6" chassis of similar design to ballast wagons introduced in the early 1900s. Diagrams of GNR ballast & gypsum hoppers and plough vans appeared in the Nov 2008 IRN I have a faint dyeline print of a CIE general arrangement drawing for a 20 ton Gypsum Hopper dated 9/7/53. The GNR built 6 wagons 6015-6020 in 1944, CIE appear to have built 4 wagons 23963-66 in 1953. The main difference between the CIE and the GNR wagons seems to been that CIE used a short 16' underframe compared to 18' on the GNR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Both the GNR and CIE built 20ton Gypsum Hoppers of broadly similar design in the 1940s & 50s. Both types of wagon ran on a 9'6" chassis. I have a faint dyeline print of a CIE general arrangement drawing for a 20 ton Gypsum Hopper dated 9/7/53. CIE appear to have built 4 wagons 23963-66 in 1953. Pender & Richards book (1967) refers to these four wagons introduced in 1954 for carrying gypsum. It details only wagons that were introduced by CIE although refers to other types (not tabulated in the book) that were inherited by CIE. I don't have an older reference than this. The 26666- series has 29 wagons seemingly on a 9'6" wheelbase but introduced as late as 1972. It's possible that a subset of the 12'0" ballast wagons also functioned as gypsums. If anyone has details of which ones would you please post these? Edited January 29, 2016 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfjoc Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 The gypsum hopper 26666 to 26694 were built in 1972 on the then standard 20' underframe with 12' wheelbase. this is obvious from the photograph on page 85 of 26686 in the 1979 edition of Doyle and Hirsch. I am pretty sure that the bodies were built by Parsons in Howth. The 9'6" wheelbase in the text is a typo. I have a copy of the 1972 wagon stock register which refers to diagram number 441 which is the GA of the 1954 built 16' long 9'6" wheelbase wagons 23963-23966. This is probably where the confusion arose. I am pretty sure that 26666-26694 were actually built to diagram number 468 which is what both the dolomite and the CCE hoppers were built to from 1969 to 1977. Gypsum when it got wet was quite corrosive and the hopper bodies had to be extensively repaired or replaced over the years. Also although 23963-23966 are noted to be scrapped by 1972 they were transferred to the CCE and probably lasted a lot longer. I have an undated copy of a Herbert Richards photo of 23963 with PWD painted on the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) A sneak look at the planned Ballast Load (not to colour or entirely correct yet ) Edited January 29, 2016 by BosKonay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 ... and the neat little IRM logo which will be underneath the NEM pocket (didn't want to upset all the underbody detailing!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Can't wait. Now that the ballast wagon has went to tooling has the "bubble" progressed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 The gypsum hopper 26666 to 26694 were built in 1972 on the then standard 20' underframe with 12' wheelbase. this is obvious from the photograph on page 85 of 26686 in the 1979 edition of Doyle and Hirsch.I am pretty sure that the bodies were built by Parsons in Howth. The 9'6" wheelbase in the text is a typo. I have a copy of the 1972 wagon stock register which refers to diagram number 441 which is the GA of the 1954 built 16' long 9'6" wheelbase wagons 23963-23966. This is probably where the confusion arose. I am pretty sure that 26666-26694 were actually built to diagram number 468 which is what both the dolomite and the CCE hoppers were built to from 1969 to 1977. Gypsum when it got wet was quite corrosive and the hopper bodies had to be extensively repaired or replaced over the years. Also although 23963-23966 are noted to be scrapped by 1972 they were transferred to the CCE and probably lasted a lot longer. I have an undated copy of a Herbert Richards photo of 23963 with PWD painted on the body. Thanks for that information. It seems I have numbers for the gypsums that are indeed correct then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 Can't wait. Now that the ballast wagon has went to tooling has the "bubble" progressed? We should be able to share the final CAD very shortly Just reviewing it ourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) We should be able to share the final CAD very shortly Just reviewing it ourselves Cheers for the reminder *back to work..... Edit* Not ready yet lads..... Three minor tweaks before I'd be happy with it, but it's 95% there. Edited January 29, 2016 by Glenderg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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