accurascale steam

[mphoey]

wow with accruscale announcing a steam engine today dont think anyone seen it coming i wonder will we see a similar announcement here later this year. Could you imagine an irish steam loco done by IRM and the good thing is there are a few in preservation that  can be scanned easily 

[Westcorkrailway]

45 minutes ago, mphoey said:

Could you imagine an irish steam loco done by IRM and the good thing is there are a few in preservation that  can be scanned easily 

Or maebh or bandon tank.....nothing ventured is nothing gained

[DJ Dangerous]

57 minutes ago, mphoey said:

wow with accruscale announcing a steam engine today dont think anyone seen it coming i wonder will we see a similar announcement here later this year. Could you imagine an irish steam loco done by IRM and the good thing is there are a few in preservation that  can be scanned easily 

Saw that a while ago.

Awesome step to take!!!

[Patrick Davey]

No. 4 or No. 171......

Either would do fine!

The specs of the Manor loco are very impressive, which is not surprising....mighty stuff!

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Patrick Davey

[murphaph]

Fair play lads. Going from strength to strength.

[NIRCLASS80]

Number 4, 85 or 171 have all been long time excellent performers for the RPSI and fairly numerous in company service days, so win, win. 
IRM steam would be an incredible step, unthinkable only a short time ago, hopefully some day a reality. 

[airfixfan]

Number 4 would allow them to offer the LMS/BR type 2-6-4T in the future as well.

[Mike 84C]

Not a big step from a WT to a W class, that would be rather good.

[jhb171achill]

8 hours ago, mphoey said:

Could you imagine an irish steam loco done by IRM and the good thing is there are a few in preservation that  can be scanned easily 

And a few without preservation with sufficient drawings!

One may now officially drool!

In a last gasp, as the youngest of the IRM guys retires in 70 years time, the final Irish loco class will be produced RTR...........??

But first, gawd knows - there's so much choice, they could do any one of the six D16 "Achill Bogies"............! 

[Warbonnet]

Would everyone buy an Irish steam locomotive though? The hobby seems to have focused on diesels and I was told by a couple of traders that the Bachmann moguls were a tough sell when they came out... 

[murphaph]

Even though I want to (and am focused on building the collection to) model the 1990s, I'd probably buy any RTR Irish steam engine that could be converted to 21mm without major surgery, but preferably a preserved loco to start with. 

[Georgeconna]

90 would be a lovely one to kick of, All those Courtmac layouts just waiting to be built!

I do prefer the ol steam to the mobile sheds.

[Ironroad]

58 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

Would everyone buy an Irish steam locomotive though? The hobby seems to have focused on diesels and I was told by a couple of traders that the Bachmann moguls were a tough sell when they came out... 

I most certainly would, I'm surprised and slightly disappointed you are even asking the question.  I suspect more would be purchased by collectors than modelers.   

[RobertRoche]

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

Would everyone buy an Irish steam locomotive though?

I might buy a preserved model such as 85 or 171 for hauling the RPSI stock; my interest is all modern stock. I have made my own representation of No. 4 and I have 2 Bachmann moguls. The number of A class variations are probably what made them viable, which would be more difficult to achieve with a steam locomotive. Of course IRM could start doing earlier stock and locos which might make it more feasible.

[CFD]

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

Would everyone buy an Irish steam locomotive though? The hobby seems to have focused on diesels and I was told by a couple of traders that the Bachmann moguls were a tough sell when they came out... 

Definitely. Would be great to have a high quality steam locomotive from IRM on the layout....

I did start into the hobby when I was given a large collection of old British DC steam locos and rolling stock, including the collection of Hornby Live Steam.....however, all was consigned to the shelves when I discovered IRM....so similar to what has been said already, whats there at the moment is all diesel, but an Irish steam loco would be a welcome addition. I am a firm follower of Rule 1....

[mmie353]

If the GSR 800 class locos came out, I would have to dig deep. I would look at any Irish steam loco, preferred would be GSR. That is tough to do a run of the 800s as they were small in numbers.

When Accurascale decide to go and release an LMS or LNER loco, I will have to take a look....  I was going to say if on that one.. The manor looks impressive, it sure looks like it will be an awesome model. 

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

Would everyone buy an Irish steam locomotive though? The hobby seems to have focused on diesels and I was told by a couple of traders that the Bachmann moguls were a tough sell when they came out... 

I think (as others have suggested) an Irish steam loco that is doing the mainline runs with the RPSI (or Maebh as she also fits the bill for a few reasons) would fit in to peoples deisalised layouts as exactly that....RPSI steam excursions through their layout. Most people like myself started the hobby with hornby/tri-ang steam locos so running steam on layouts is still an attractive proposition to modelers. Besides with RTR stuff like the grey 121s and green/silver A class thanks to you. People will be looking at things to run alongside those diesels from the steam era!

1 hour ago, Georgeconna said:

90 would be a lovely one to kick of, All those Courtmac layouts just waiting to be built!

I do prefer the ol steam to the mobile sheds.

I think the fact that two parties have announced J30 3d prints within 6 months of each other proves there is a demand

[jhb171achill]

15 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Would everyone buy an Irish steam locomotive though? The hobby seems to have focused on diesels and I was told by a couple of traders that the Bachmann moguls were a tough sell when they came out... 

Personally, as many here would know, I would have a list of steam engines I'd like that would almost fit around trump's waist - but practicalities must hold sway.

The ideal locomotive to do is one that was -

(a) long lived, and can thus be possibly provided in several liveries, although some GSR types entered traffic in grey and were still that way when withdrawn! Included in the "long-lived" category would be engines which even if not that OLD, wereto be seen at the very end of steam, such as a J15 on CIE, but also an NCC "Jeep" for NIR.

(b) operated over as wide an area as possible, e.g. a J15 or J18

(c) was used on as many types of traffic as possible - e.g. a mixed traffic type.

(d) was reasonably well-known, like a "Bandon Tank".

(e) "celebrity" status, such as an 800 or apreserved engine - the latter being usable in a modern setting too, e.g. any RPSI loco

I stand to be corrected, but I understand that a variety of liveries assists in selling models, or in some way makes production more economically worthwhile, so I've suggested a few below.

A manufacturer will never get it all right, but strictly adhering to as many as possible of the above criteria, it would seem that a reasonable selection of potential projects would be:

- Yes, "Maedb". Limited run? GSR green, CIE green, and for 802, the experimental lighter shade of 1952.

- A Midland J26 tank. Seen in Tramore (box cab add-on?), "Wisht Caaark" and Kerry, Tralee and environs as well as the MGWR. Shunting and branch line. MGWR lined green, MGWR lined black GSR / CIE grey. 

- Some sort of GSWR 4.4.0. GSWR lined black, GSR / CIE grey. Also the solitary green one, of a 60 class (I think?)

- NCC "Jeep" with LMS lining and NCC lettering; UTA rounded, UTA crest and NIR logo

- A J15's been done, otherwise it would be top of the list. Since it as good as sold out, surely that amplifies the case for RTR steam?

Also the RPSI's 171, 85 or 461.

Edited February 2, 2021 by jhb171achill

[Westcorkrailway]

47 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Personally, as many here would know, I would have a list of steam engines I'd like that would almost fit around trump's waist - but practicalities must hold sway.

The ideal locomotive to do is one that was -

(a) long lived, and can thus be possibly provided in several liveries, although some GSR types entered traffic in grey and were still that way when withdrawn! Included in the "long-lived" category would be engines which even if not that OLD, wereto be seen at the very end of steam, such as a J15 on CIE, but also an NCC "Jeep" for NIR.

(b) operated over as wide an area as possible, e.g. a J15 or J18

(c) was used on as many types of traffic as possible - e.g. a mixed traffic type.

(d) was reasonably well-known, like a "Bandon Tank".

(e) "celebrity" status, such as an 800 or apreserved engine - the latter being usable in a modern setting too, e.g. any RPSI loco

I stand to be corrected, but I understand that a variety of liveries assists in selling models, or in some way makes production more economically worthwhile, so I've suggested a few below.

A manufacturer will never get it all right, but strictly adhering to as many as possible of the above criteria, it would seem that a reasonable selection of potential projects would be:

- Yes, "Maedb". Limited run? GSR green, CIE green, and for 802, the experimental lighter shade of 1952.

- A Midland J26 tank. Seen in Tramore (box cab add-on?), Wisht Clark, Tralee and environs as well as the MGWR. Shunting and branch line. MGWR lined green, MGWR lined black GSR / CIE grey. 

- Some sort of GSWR 4.4.0. GSWR lined black, GSR / CIE grey. Also the solitary green one, of a 60 class (I think?)

- NCC "Jeep" with LMS lining and NCC lettering; UTA rounded, UTA crest and NIR logo

- A J15's been done, otherwise it would be top of the list. Since it as good as sold out, surely that amplifies the case for RTR steam?

Also the RPSI's 171, 85 or 461.

Preserved locos of course have the advantage of being scanned. RPSI rolling stock has been produced already so that paves the way for one to be "the chosen one" celebrity Maebh being the only non RPSI preserved loco(i see irelands largest ever steam loco being a potential selling point to english collectors but not a whole lot) I see being produced at IRM RTR quality. As stated before, our lovely kit manufacturers can fill in the gaps as they already do.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Westcorkrailway

[Ironroad]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

A J15's been done, otherwise it would be top of the list. Since it as good as sold out, surely that amplifies the case for RTR steam?

Very very true, well said.  The market isn't limited to diesels, there's been virtually nothing else on offer.

[Westcorkrailway]

46 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

Very very true, well said.  The market isn't limited to diesels, there's been virtually nothing else on offer.

Anyone remember this little thing. Good toy but not a good model, keep in mind this is on the list of 4-ish current RTR Irish steam models ever...even today it looks bizzare

Edited February 2, 2021 by Westcorkrailway

[NIRCLASS80]

Personally I would buy likely only one steam engine of any class released that’s in preservation but if it’s a diesel class release I would buy several. 
Plus Ready to Run stock favours diesel sales now that we have a good selection compared to a few years ago. 

[murphaph]

But on the flip side bringing out RTR steam (from steam days) brings a new dimension to the hobby that could encourage sales of a whole new range of RTR stock.

I model tippex diesels. I'm not all that likely to buy a whole heap of black and tan versions of diesel stuff I mostly have in tippex but I can certainly see myself going a bit further back to steam days and then the accompanying rolling stock of the day becomes interesting to me all of a sudden.

[jhb171achill]

Two other points:

Firstly, some of us have RPSI Cravens with nothing authentic to haul them other than diesels B141 and B134. Any steam model could be operated as “preserved” even if there isn’t one of the class in real life.

Secondly, there was a time when an Irish diesel model might not have sold that well, now they sell out. There was a time when the only viable Irish model would have been something orange and black. Yet now we have a HUGE interest in thd black’n’tan era of 1963-76. There is much evidence also of a rapidly growing interest in the grey’n’green era now, too; and this required “A” class locos and steam (as well as the B101 and “C”, but that’s another story.

The “Woolwich” was introduced as part of a “train set”, at a time when there was absolutely nothing to run with it, bar non-authentic LMS coaches in a CIE-ish livery, and before many modellers even had the knowledge levels prevalent now. 

Now, there are Worsley & SSM kits for carriages. The market is crying out for high-end RTR laminates, Bredins or Park Royals, and most obviously of all, tin vans - a run of which by JM design having sold out despite their inclusion in virtually EVERY passenger train over  a fifteen year period from about 1957 to ‘72.

Then we’ve the wagons. Provincial Leslie has spoiled us, and talk is of several manufacturers offering more.

All told, I do think we’re certainly ready for RTR steam.

[Warbonnet]

10 hours ago, murphaph said:

Even though I want to (and am focused on building the collection to) model the 1990s, I'd probably buy any RTR Irish steam engine that could be converted to 21mm without major surgery, but preferably a preserved loco to start with. 

Hi everyone,

Well it seems my question sparked some debate!

@murphaphas we found with our work on the Accurascale manor, easy conversion to finescale standards on RTR steam is next to impossible, due to valve gear, pistons and the placing of splashers. So, unless it's a simple O-6-0 without splashers, conversion to 21mm would be next to impossible. Kits will serve better there. 

9 hours ago, Ironroad said:

I most certainly would, I'm surprised and slightly disappointed you are even asking the question.  I suspect more would be purchased by collectors than modelers.   

Sorry that you are disappointed but I gave a reason beside my question. The last mass produced steam locomotive (Bachmann/Murphy Woolwich mogul) was reported to be a slow seller by a couple of retailers I talked to. It was a good model, offered serval liveries too. 

7 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

I stand to be corrected, but I understand that a variety of liveries assists in selling models, or in some way makes production more economically worthwhile, so I've suggested a few below.

- A J15's been done, otherwise it would be top of the list. Since it as good as sold out, surely that amplifies the case for RTR steam?

Also the RPSI's 171, 85 or 461.

Correct JB, variety of liveries and/or icon status certainly helps. The J15 with OO Works did sell out, but their minimum production run number is a fraction of what ours is, so cannot really be compared I'm afraid. 

2 hours ago, murphaph said:

But on the flip side bringing out RTR steam (from steam days) brings a new dimension to the hobby that could encourage sales of a whole new range of RTR stock.

I model tippex diesels. I'm not all that likely to buy a whole heap of black and tan versions of diesel stuff I mostly have in tippex but I can certainly see myself going a bit further back to steam days and then the accompanying rolling stock of the day becomes interesting to me all of a sudden.

You could see it as that way, or is it segmenting an already tiny market to a point that it would not be viable? We all like our steam, and would love to make a steam locomotive, but we would need the whole market (namely diesel modellers) to buy it too, and more than one at that, for it to be viable.

That's not to say we are ruling out steam, we absolutely are not. But, just thought I would throw some commercial points of view out there and gauge what the real interest is. If the interest is there then of course we will make it, but it is a gamble for anyone!

Thanks,

Fran 

[jhb171achill]

2 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

 

 

That's not to say we are ruling out steam, we absolutely are not. But, just thought I would throw some commercial points of view out there and gauge what the real interest is. If the interest is there then of course we will make it, but it is a gamble for anyone!

Thanks,

Fran 

The strict commercial aspect must, of course, be the final - if not ONLY - arbiter. I think we all here appreciate the efforts of IRM to develop the Irish model market in general. And clearly it's working.

Your comments on re-gauging models to 21mm gauge are interesting - I hadn't thought about that. One question, though - suppose you DID decide to try the market - let's say, with something like a C2 or a J26 - both inside cylindered.

Would it be feasible, practical or economically helpful to provide as an option a body only, with the customary high detail, to assist those who might wish to make their own "broad gauge" chassis? This, of course, in addition to the full RTR 00 gauge model.

[Warbonnet]

12 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

The strict commercial aspect must, of course, be the final - if not ONLY - arbiter. I think we all here appreciate the efforts of IRM to develop the Irish model market in general. And clearly it's working.

Your comments on re-gauging models to 21mm gauge are interesting - I hadn't thought about that. One question, though - suppose you DID decide to try the market - let's say, with something like a C2 or a J26 - both inside cylindered.

Would it be feasible, practical or economically helpful to provide as an option a body only, with the customary high detail, to assist those who might wish to make their own "broad gauge" chassis? This, of course, in addition to the full RTR 00 gauge model.

I dont think so JB, we can count on one hand the amount of people who have 21mm'ed our existing output. We would have to order 1000 units like that. A 21mm modeller would have to buy the loco, possibly throw the innards away and use an etched chassis kit like they do in the UK. And even then the splasher issue comes into play (some locos avoid this, but are there many without splashers?)

[skinner75]

47 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Firstly, some of us have RPSI Cravens with nothing authentic to haul them other than diesels B141 and B134. Any steam model could be operated as “preserved” even if there isn’t one of the class in real life.

Any time I've been on an RPSI tour in their Cravens, it has been behind an 071 or 201 that is used in active duties, so there is multiple loco options available for the RPSI Cravens.

I do get the point of a steam model hauling them though, to represent the steam trips the RPSI do.

Personally, I have no interest in steam as steam was before my time, and wouldn't buy a steam loco model. I'll buy diesels till the cows come home though!

Edited February 2, 2021 by skinner75

[Westcorkrailway]

35 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

I dont think so JB, we can count on one hand the amount of people who have 21mm'ed our existing output. We would have to order 1000 units like that. A 21mm modeller would have to buy the loco, possibly throw the innards away and use an etched chassis kit like they do in the UK. And even then the splasher issue comes into play (some locos avoid this, but are there many without splashers?)

Makes sense, trying to convert 21mm chassis on a steam train as an optional extra for a sub section of the irish market probobly would be less possible

I think diesels is the best way forward for now with the C class, sulzer, AEC railcars and 80 class locos all without high quality toolings as of yet and enough demand to do each. And once there done the demand for a new tooling of the 141/071s/201s will be back again enough to sell economically. But darn twould be great to have a steam loco in there somewhere within the next decade or two 

 

[Galteemore]

42 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

I dont think so JB, we can count on one hand the amount of people who have 21mm'ed our existing output. We would have to order 1000 units like that. A 21mm modeller would have to buy the loco, possibly throw the innards away and use an etched chassis kit like they do in the UK. And even then the splasher issue comes into play (some locos avoid this, but are there many without splashers?)

Having converted a steam loco (that I built from a kit) in 7mm from 32mm to 36.75mm it can be rather complex, given all the nooks and crannies involved. Splashers are an issue as you say. Also brake gear - especially if there are pull rods outside the wheels.  4.5mm is not an insignificant amount of space to find! 

 

[Warbonnet]

13 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Makes sense, trying to convert 21mm chassis on a steam train as an optional extra for a sub section of the irish market probobly would be less possible

I think diesels is the best way forward for now with the C class, sulzer, AEC railcars and 80 class locos all without high quality toolings as of yet and enough demand to do each. And once there done the demand for a new tooling of the 141/071s/201s will be back again enough to sell economically. But darn twould be great to have a steam loco in there somewhere within the next decade or two 

 

As I said, not ruling it out, at all. But we do need to do some serious commercial thinking on it and it would take a couple of years at least to deliver (Manor project is 18 months in as of today!)  

[Bob229]

Firstly congrats on producing GWR 7800 it looks a very high spec and detailed Steam loco and will be very popular, I was looking into purcahsing a new steam loco model 

and will be purchasing the GWR 7800 glad I waited,  my main interest is in diesel locos but the Manor model will be fine addition on any layout

 

I would purchase an Irish Steam engine but from IRM point of view I can understand it must be a viable project

[Westcorkrailway]

40 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

As I said, not ruling it out, at all. But we do need to do some serious commercial thinking on it and it would take a couple of years at least to deliver (Manor project is 18 months in as of today!)  

Well done Lads im sure all the time and effort put in will be well worth it in the end!

Commercially it makes sense to do some of the deisals first seeing as diesal men dominate the irish market. It is a buisness at the end of the day and evidently there are people against the idea as per lack of rolling stock and not fitting layouts. (Shame because i think an A class will be arriving at ballinhassig soon which only happened twice ever!) 

Regardless were lucky that modelers in quite a wide veriety of eras (present era-50s thanks to all our manufacturers) as I am so new to the hobby it took me a while to figure out what modles can be bought, i remember they day i figured out buying a bandon tank model was "possible" and being over the moon regardless of it being a kit i couldnt finish if i tried! 

I hope one day anyway we see steam become commercially viable, I might be West Cork at heart but RTR stream is too good to turn down!

[Barl]

Similar to others who have posted, steam was well before my time but personally I still think there is something different and nostalgic about steam models - this is coming from someone who thinks 2600 'Arrow' railcars are nostalgic!

The video Accurascale have on their website - with Hornby Magazine - is a very good watch and shows the level of work requred to produce a steam model! It also shows the draw of steam models with the Manor class emerging from a cloud of it's own smoke making for a beautiful sight

As much as I'd love an 800 class, realistically I wouldn't see myself buying more than one in preserved livery for an RPSI special. On the other hand, I would probably buy more than one J15 for example as they crossed such a long period of time and have appeared in so many variations, even fictitious ones for filming (I think?) and as preserved.

Maybe IRM could reintroduce the smoke effects on steam models like they used to have years ago! 

[murphaph]

For an 800 Class I'd buy it just to put on display to be honest! 

It's good to get Fran's realistic feedback about the short to medium term viability of Irish steam etc.

I'm still genuinely optimistic that the market itself will grow over the coming years and attract further returnees like myself.