Park Royal Update October 2024 - Decorated Samples Revealed!

[Warbonnet]

Another long overdue project update is finally here, and thankfully it's much more positive as we get to reveal decorated samples of our hotly anticipated Park Royal coaches!

Firstly, we shall let the images do the talking, as a splash of colour adorns these splendid vehicles.

Arriving just in time for the MRSI October Bank Holiday Weekend show in Dublin, we have received decorated samples in green with silver underframe, CIE classic "Black and Tan" livery of orange and black, and IR Orange and Black livery of post 1987 with white pin stripes, the final livery they wore in squadron service with Irish rail.

We are delighted to see colour on these models, so we can get a real feel for the coaches and the progression of the coaches. We still have work to do though! When the first engineering samples arrived, we noted that the bogies had been incorrectly moulded in the wrong type of plastic, which would cause significant operational issues and a high failure rate as it is difficult to glue.

Thankfully, this has now been sorted, and the iconic commonwealth bogies, a signature of so many Irish coaches from this period, look and perform superbly. 

Paint coverage needs to be and will be improved and some of the colours will be tweaked before production, along with a general improvement in build quality, but that is typical of samples at this stage.

Once this issues are resolved we will progress to production. The revised delivery date of these models is now mid-2025. 

Drop by our stand this weekend and take a closer look at these beauties. If you have experienced our Mark 2 coaches, then you know how special these are going to be! 

We still have a limited supply of Park Royals available for pre-order. To add some to your collection, place your pre-order below!

Pre-Order Your Park Royal Coaches Here!

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[Georgeconna]

Now these are smoking....Well done lads. 

[DJ Dangerous]

They look stunning!

WOW!

Just imagine a few of those mixed in with some Cravens!

Also relieved that the expected arrival date is pushed back a bit, as it's been an expensive year so far, with H Vans and Grain Wagons still to pay for...

And possibly a loco launch to budget for!

[Flying Snail]

Fabulous - looking forward to seeing these in Clontarf!

[Patrick Davey]

Gulp 

[Georgeconna]

2 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

They look stunning!

WOW!

Just imagine a few of those mixed in with some Cravens!

Also relieved that the expected arrival date is pushed back a bit, as it's been an expensive year so far, with H Vans and Grain Wagons still to pay for...

And possibly a loco launch to budget for!

yep,  have the PR paid, just the other Vans now next. Think I am all about coached out max wise now.

[mphoey]

they look spot on so looking forward to them arriving

[Phil3150]

So where would these suburban coaches have been running in 1967 please?

[Horsetan]

On 25/10/2024 at 11:00 AM, Warbonnet said:

.... the iconic commonwealth bogies, a signature of so many Irish coaches from this period, look and perform superbly....

Will the bogies be available separately, like the Mk2s? There'll be some who'll want more accurate bogies to go under their IFM coaches, etc.

[flange lubricator]

On 25/10/2024 at 9:47 PM, Phil3150 said:

So where would these suburban coaches have been running in 1967 please?

Yes they were running all over the system at that time . 

[jhb171achill]

On 25/10/2024 at 8:47 PM, Phil3150 said:

So where would these suburban coaches have been running in 1967 please?

Yes, they would. By that stage few if any would still be green - most if not all in black’n’tan. They were still about in ‘77 too, and some weren’t far off making it to ‘87!

Park Royals of all varieties had a thirty year span 1955-86 in main service, but in addition a small number, chiefly used in late days (when they got the mid-body stripe) formed the Limerick to Rosslare set until the early 1990s. So a handful of them had an almost 40-year life.

Plus, in later years, main line and suburban types were indiscriminately mixed on all services.

The green livery only 1955-62.

1962-mid/late 70s, increasingly black’n’tan, with green becoming fewer each year.

After approx 1967/8, no more in green.

Edited October 29 by jhb171achill

[Patrick Davey]

They looked fantastic at the show!!!

[Mayner]

The Park Royals were banned from Heuston based Intercity services because of inadequate crashworthyness around 87 but continued in used on suburban, branch and secondary main line services until replaced by more modern stock in the late 80s possibly early 90s. 

Dublin-Drogheda suburban services were worked by Park Royal coaches (rake 4-5 coaches + genny van) until replaced with the MK3 Push-Pull sets. I took the train to Drogheda in 89 or 90 hoping to travel in a Push-Pull set but found the Park Royals were still in use. 

Apart from Waterford-Limerick and the Nenagh Branch, Cork-Tralee trains were also worked by 'refurbished' Park Royals, I travelled from Mallow-Killarney in a Park-Royal set on a Cork-Tralee working during my summer holidays in 88 or 89. The interior was repainted and the upholstery replaced on the 'refurbished' Park Royals resulting in a clean though quite Spartan interior.

Its possible the introduction on the 'International Train' and MK2AC stock allowed IE to 'cascade' some Craven stock from Intercity to suburban, branch and secondary services allowing the Park Royals to be finally retired.

My longest journey in a Park Royal possibly suburban coach was in 77-78 Heuston-Westport on a packed train otherwise made up of Cravens and the mandatory early 1950s Buffet Car. Train was hauled by a 121-141 combo  071s had not yet entered service.  The coach ran quite smoothly at speed apart from some alarming jolts on poorly aligned railjoints near Roscommon

Edited October 29 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

19 hours ago, Mayner said:

……… continued in used on suburban, branch and secondary main line services until replaced by more modern stock in the late 80s possibly early 90s. 

I think the VERY last two in use (in Limerick - Waterford) were retired in 1994, though of course most were long gone by then.

Comparatively very few survived long enough to get the waistline stripe. I wonder how many were actually still in traffic after this was introduced in late ‘87 - can’t have been many.

[ttc0169]

26 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I think the VERY last two in use (in Limerick - Waterford) were retired in 1994, though of course most were long gone by then.

Comparatively very few survived long enough to get the waistline stripe. I wonder how many were actually still in traffic after this was introduced in late ‘87 - can’t have been many.

Ballina branch trains had refurbished Park Royal’s until they were replaced by Cravens in 1994. 

[Niles]

As far as I know 1944 (preserved at Downpatrick) came straight off the last Limerick-Waterford set, with the other two from it, 1400 and 1946, going straight to Clonakility Model Railway Village. In fact she very briefly operated at Downpatrick in IR livery before sidelined for restoration, emerging in 2018 in original 1950s dark green (which some did carry, we have photos to prove it, before I'm shot!). 

There's a photo somewhere on the interweb of 1944 being hauled to Dublin after.

Edited October 30 by Niles

[jhb171achill]

3 minutes ago, Niles said:

As far as I know 1944 (preserved at Downpatrick) came straight off the last Limerick-Waterford set, with the other two from it, 1400 and 1946, going straight to Clonakility Model Railway Village. In fact she very briefly operated at Downpatrick in IR livery before sidelined for restoration, emerging in 2018 in original 1950s dark green (which some did carry, we have photos to prove it, before I'm shot!). 

There's a photo somewhere on the interweb of 1944 being hauled to Dublin after.

Correct.

[Warbonnet]

Hi everyone,

One of the stars of the show at the recent MRSI show in Dublin was the unveiling of the decorated samples of our Park Royal coaches in CIE black and tan, IR orange and black with white strips and classic CIE green with silver underframe and bogies liveries.

For those of you who missed them, here is a closer look!

As per our most recent update, there are some tweaks and adjustments to be made ahead of delivery next summer.

Pre-order yours below before the order book closes ahead of production!

Pre-Order Your Park Royal Coaches Here!

[John-r]

Really good looking, sure to be another winner.

[Niles]

I'll be honest, this is the most excited I've been about a carriage model since the MM Cravens back in 2009. Moreso even.

[irishthump]

Awesome! Can't wait to run these in a mixed rake with some Cravens!

[jhb171achill]

Having seen them in the flesh at the show……… WOW!

Guaranteed winner, and deservedly so, as always with IRM.

I’m hoping mine will have authentic cigarette butts on the floor and chewing gum stuck to exactly 12 of its internal seats.

Yes, I sat in one once, when a mid-day train to Cork was exceptionally busy and they stuck three on the end of it. I think it was that train, or the same service another day around then, which was the last time I saw a Bredin in traffic….

[GSR 800]

37 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Having seen them in the flesh at the show……… WOW!

Guaranteed winner, and deservedly so, as always with IRM.

I’m hoping mine will have authentic cigarette butts on the floor and chewing gum stuck to exactly 12 of its internal seats.

Yes, I sat in one once, when a mid-day train to Cork was exceptionally busy and they stuck three on the end of it. I think it was that train, or the same service another day around then, which was the last time I saw a Bredin in traffic….

Only if they have lost marys blocking the jacks on their ICRs...

[Mol_PMB]

One of my recollections of a Park Royal was a sauna. The steam heating had sprung a leak inside the carriage, with the result that the windows were all steamed up, the seats were damp and the moisture was dripping off the ceiling. You could see from one of the carriage to the other, but it was like a thick fog. We rapidly selected an alternative carriage!

[Mol_PMB]

On which topic, I'm looking forward to Accurascale's take on a BGSV, complete with DCC hissing sounds to accompany the inevitable steam leak effects. It might even blow off occasionally!

[Broithe]

A chap I was at college with recalled going for an interview as smartly dressed as was possible, on a train full of posh, pinstriped businessmen. By the time they got to the destination, the steam-cleaning process made it look like nobody was even wearing their own clothes.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

A chap I was at college with recalled going for an interview as smartly dressed as was possible, on a train full of posh, pinstriped businessmen. By the time they got to the destination, the steam-cleaning process made it look like nobody was even wearing their own clothes.

The things people got up to on trains in those days……….!

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

On which topic, I'm looking forward to Accurascale's take on a BGSV, complete with DCC hissing sounds to accompany the inevitable steam leak effects. It might even blow off occasionally!

Actually, a heating van of SOME sort is an absolute must….

[DiveController]

15 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

The things people got up to on trains in those days……….!

Actually, a heating van of SOME sort is an absolute must….

A Dutch and rebuilt Dutch might be worth a go!

I suppose the one superb 6 wheel double boilers is out of the question?

Edited November 14 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

7 minutes ago, DiveController said:

A Dutch and rebuilt Dutch might be worth a go!

I suppose the one superb 6 wheel double double boilers is of the question?

There are a number of choices. Several types of ex-BR vans, on account of not all of the original BR full brakes being of the same initial design. Then you've the 4 and 6 wheeled CIE "tin van" types, though there were only a few of the 6-whelers, they were limited in where they went, and they were short lived. Then you've the "Dutch" vans and the several detail-different types of 32XX series brake standard gennies. Either way, ANY CIE train needs a genny of some sort, as much as it needs a locomotive.

[Ironroad]

Sauna or Turkish bath more like. Well that's what we got every day in winter on the old AEC rail cars (pre DART). At least 90% of them leaked steam in enormous volumes. The experience of travelling into the city on a wet December or January morning when they were jam packed with passengers with already wet coats and dripping umbrellas, still doesn't bear thinking about. 

[jhb171achill]

5 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

Sauna or Turkish bath more like. Well that's what we got every day in winter on the old AEC rail cars (pre DART). At least 90% of them leaked steam in enormous volumes. The experience of travelling into the city on a wet December or January morning when they were jam packed with passengers with already wet coats and dripping umbrellas, still doesn't bear thinking about. 

Nostalgia aside; this very true.

Sheer luxury, mind you, compared to an old MED on the Bangor line or a "Castle" 450. Both were saunas in summer and fridges in winter. For good measure, the MEDs were filled with diesel fumes and the 450s had only two speeds - stop and go; and seats built for leprechauns.

In all reality, most modern trains are far more comfortable than the first and secnod generation railcars, with the exception of the AECs in original form. These had very comfortable main line style seating, though they were noisy.

70 and 80 class power cars, as well as 450s, were truly awful things to travel in. The rattling and severe vibration of the windows was the most deafening I've ever heard in any train anywhere. Way better in the trailing cars, in which I always made a point of travelling.

[Mol_PMB]

7 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

There are a number of choices. Several types of ex-BR vans, on account of not all of the original BR full brakes being of the same initial design. Then you've the 4 and 6 wheeled CIE "tin van" types, though there were only a few of the 6-whelers, they were limited in where they went, and they were short lived. Then you've the "Dutch" vans and the several detail-different types of 32XX series brake standard gennies. Either way, ANY CIE train needs a genny of some sort, as much as it needs a locomotive.

It's important to note that there was a change in policy around 1970, relating to the electrical supply on carriages, and this influences which type of heating van is appropriate for a train.

From steam days, carriages with electric lighting had dynamos and batteries, with steam heat provided from the loco. When diesels were introduced from 1955, steam heat vans were required to provide the heat, but the lighting still came from the dynamos and batteries. So...

• The 4-wheel heating vans 3101-3152 built 1955-1960 just had a boiler, no electric generator.
• The 6-wheel vans 3153-3156 built in 1964 (there were only ever 4 of them) had 2 boilers but still no electric generator.

Around 1970 there was a move to convert the passenger fleet lighting from dynamos and batteries to supply from a generating steam van. Converted carriages had a TL suffix added to their number, indicating Train Line lighting. This required additional through wiring of the lighting power circuits. I'm not sure whether the dynamos and/or batteries were removed at the same time, or if there were changes to the voltage etc. So...

• The 10 'Dutch' vans 3157TL-3166TL built in 1969 were the first to have a generator.
• In 1972, the 22 ex-BR MK1 vans 3167TL-3176TL and 3177TL-3192TL arrived, also generator fitted.

Gradual conversion of the whole fleet proceeded through the 1970s and early 1980s, with the carriages used for express trains generally prioritised over those on suburban duties. As the conversion programme progressed, more BGSVs were needed, so...

• Former brake standard coaches were modified with boilers and generators in 1977-1978 - these were numbered in the 3201TL-3218TL series and there were several varieties. 

By 1981 almost all trains were on the TL system; just the four 6-wheel vans were still in use on Dublin suburban trains with non-TL stock. Of course they were swept away by the DART.

 

Getting back on topic for this thread, you'll notice that the Park Royal carriages offered by IRM include those with and without a TL suffix to the number. So...

• If you have carriages without TL, then they ought to be paired with a 4-wheel or 6-wheel heating van.
• If you have carriages with TL, then they ought to be paired with a Dutch, BR or 3201 series heating van.

Doubtless there were mixtures during the transition period even if that meant going without lights!

 

[Mol_PMB]

The 4-wheelers were delivered in silver. Remember, you don't need one if there's a steam loco on the front, or if it's summer time. Only diesel-hauled in trains in winter need the steam.

Also about half of the AEC railcars had built-in boilers so they don't need a steam van either.

From Ernie on Flickr, it's August so there's no need for heating:

The early 4-wheel vans were delivered in silver:

They were later green, as seen here in one of Ernie's photos:

And finally black and tan, at which point they seem to have lost some windows:

The 6-wheelers were delivered new in black and tan, as seen here in one of Ernie's photos:

They ended their days in 1983 confined to Dublin suburban services, as seen here in Neil Smith's photo:

 

[Newtoncork]

The six wheelers look like a right beast!

[Mayner]

12 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

Getting back on topic for this thread, you'll notice that the Park Royal carriages offered by IRM include those with and without a TL suffix to the number. So...

• If you have carriages without TL, then they ought to be paired with a 4-wheel or 6-wheel heating van.

Doubtless there were mixtures during the transition period even if that meant going without lights!

 

Not quite correct at one stage coaches without the TL suffix ran with 3201-3212 Series Brake Standard Generating Steam Vans on Dublin outer suburban services during the late 1970s possibly into the early 80s

Sometimes travelled on Connolly-Drogheda suburban trains in the late 70s/early 80s, the consist was usually 3-4 non TL coaches and a bogie generator/heating van converted from earlier stock hauled by a B201 Class loco. Coaches tended to be a mixture of early 1950s Inchacore built, stock, Park Royal and Laminate coachs.

The Park Royal Suburban coaches 1379-1418 are listed without the TL Suffix in 1979 edition of Locomotives and Rolling Stock of CIE & NIR which claims than details of CIE coaches are corrent for 27 November 1978.  

My impression at the time was TL fitted stock was primarily used on long distance Intercity services out of Heuston and Connolly, while stock in use on suburban and branch line services continued to rely on the traditional dynamo and battery lighting system possibly into the early 80s. Park Royal suburban and some late 1950s Laminate stock were later fitted with TL lighting.