Warbonnet Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Interesting quote from that site: The bottom line is that Rapido will produce the model if we can generate 800 pledges, instead of the 1,000 DJM would have needed. Gives an indication of the commitment needed. That's also for a max 11 coach train which will require several different coaches tooled up too. Maybe something like one loco would only need a couple of variants catered for. Rapido's stuff is superb though, run by real enthusiasts and critically they own their own factories in China.
irishthump Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 The simplest option to date would seem to be where you simply buy the loco(s) you want, in advance. Once enough have been sold, the production can commence... Am I missing something here or is there a difference between actually paying in advance or "pledging"? I imagine in the case of a pledge you still pay out....
Warbonnet Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Am I missing something here or is there a difference between actually paying in advance or "pledging"? I imagine in the case of a pledge you still pay out.... Something like Kickstarter means you pay in advance. Once there is enough orders the capital to cut tooling and do the design is in place. If the target is not met then the money is given back to those who bought into the project.
burnthebox Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 A class, DCC, C class DCC ( love this idea, well done)
snapper Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 In principal I have no objection to pre paying for a model but there would need to be a lot more confirmed details before I actually commit money. For myself I have five main concerns / questions 1. What Model / Livery 2. What price 3. Quality control 4. Risk of failure 5. Who is running the show / producing the model
minister_for_hardship Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Quite prepared to play the waiting game for a MM 121. Sorted for an A, it might not be perfect, but it'll suit me fine.
WRENNEIRE Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Trying to remember a conversation I had with Paddy Murphy some time back, We were discussing the 121, and whether it would be viable to do an unpowered model As anyone who knows him will tell you Paddy likes to talk model trains and when he eventually told me why the unpowered model was a non runner (see what I did there) we spoke briefly about other projects that he would like to do and to my surprise he mentioned the A Class. His main concern was the amount of models he had to produce to get the project off the ground and he was hoping that some time in the future he might be able to have a smaller than usual run produced. This was in the middle of the Celtic Tiger boom when money was plentiful so I am not sure where he is now with this idea. But as I remember he was really interested in an A Class model, and knowing the man that he is ........................... I also meant to mention that as far as crowd funding goes there is a risk involved and monies paid up front are not guaranteed to be returned if all does not go well Edited November 17, 2014 by WRENNEIRE
gm171 kk Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I wouldn't be prepared to hand out the amount of money required for a model locomotive up front. I'm pretty happy just waiting for 121s, A classes and MK3s and in the mean time building up a collection of what PM has already produced. As we've heard before, the fast track to getting the 121s produced is the purchasing of PM's existing stock. I'm surprised no one has mentioned an interest in any proper RTR Irish Mk3s yet.
Tarabuses Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I would be happy to prepay Murphy Models but I'm not sure what other manufacturer(s) I would trust with my money. Even with Paddy, would this cut out the model shops? Steam locos would be my preferred option after the 121s, which I hope are on their way - GSR 461 or GNR 171 maybe?
aclass007 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Trying to remember a conversation I had with Paddy Murphy some time back, We were discussing the 121, and whether it would be viable to do an unpowered model As anyone who knows him will tell you Paddy likes to talk model trains and when he eventually told me why the unpowered model was a non runner (see what I did there) we spoke briefly about other projects that he would like to do and to my surprise he mentioned the A Class. His main concern was the amount of models he had to produce to get the project off the ground and he was hoping that some time in the future he might be able to have a smaller than usual run produced. This was in the middle of the Celtic Tiger boom when money was plentiful so I am not sure where he is now with this idea. But as I remember he was really interested in an A Class model, and knowing the man that he is ........................... I also meant to mention that as far as crowd funding goes there is a risk involved and monies paid up front are not guaranteed to be returned if all does not go well If we are to believe what we read on this forum, Paddy Murphy cannot produce any new models until existing stock is sold. So, basically the only thing preventing Paddy from producing an A class or a 121 is money. He has the experience, desire, ability and everything else needed. That's where we can help each other here. Paddy Murphy is the best possible choice to produce our chosen loco. No one would have a doubt about the end result if Murphy Models are behind it, which would mean people would be happier to pay up front. Being a manufacturer, Paddy might be in a position to part fund the model, meaning less to be funded by us. Paddy on the other hand would get our money, be given a free hand to produce the model as he has done in the past without interference or input from anyone. Once the model is produced, the prepaying members would get their locos at the pre agreed price and Paddy could produce and market the model as he wished after that. So, maybe someone here who has a direct line to God.... I mean Paddy.... can have a chat with him and see if there is a chance of this happening..
Warbonnet Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 If we are to believe what we read on this forum, Paddy Murphy cannot produce any new models until existing stock is sold. So, basically the only thing preventing Paddy from producing an A class or a 121 is money. He has the experience, desire, ability and everything else needed. That's where we can help each other here. Paddy Murphy is the best possible choice to produce our chosen loco. No one would have a doubt about the end result if Murphy Models are behind it, which would mean people would be happier to pay up front. Being a manufacturer, Paddy might be in a position to part fund the model, meaning less to be funded by us. Paddy on the other hand would get our money, be given a free hand to produce the model as he has done in the past without interference or input from anyone. Once the model is produced, the prepaying members would get their locos at the pre agreed price and Paddy could produce and market the model as he wished after that. So, maybe someone here who has a direct line to God.... I mean Paddy.... can have a chat with him and see if there is a chance of this happening.. You're replying to the man who has that direct line...
aclass007 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I would be happy to prepay Murphy Models but I'm not sure what other manufacturer(s) I would trust with my money. Even with Paddy, would this cut out the model shops? Steam locos would be my preferred option after the 121s, which I hope are on their way - GSR 461 or GNR 171 maybe? I don't think it would cut out the model shops. If Murphy Models came in on this, I think Paddy should be given a free hand to sell the model as he always has done. Our only input is money, which is basically used to speed up the process of producing a loco that both we and hopefully Paddy Murphy wish to see produced.
Weshty Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 An MM quality A class or 121? Very hard choice to make. I'm leaning towards the 121 as it is more distinctive and harder to make from a kit, so the detail of an RTR would be more interesting. And I'd take 5 Black and Tan Orange IR IE IE durty version
richrua Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 121; just because there is not currently any kit or RTR available. I think I would go steam after that. A nice big Meadbh please. (though probably beyond the scope of this endeavour).
richrua Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 ...and in case the loco projects are too difficult to do: Judging on what people like to make here on this site, A crowd funded RTR cement bubble, a Bell freight bogie pocket wagon type; or a bogie timber wagon would all sell well I think.
Portoman Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 a 121 or A class and only if Paddy Murphy was involved. I wouldn't be interested in the other company. It would be a slap in the face for Paddy after all MM have done for Irish modelling.
RedRich Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I would be willing to be part of a prepay venture like this, but it would have to be for something that I would want produced. The 121 is the loco I would pay up front for. Freight is very important and an actual prototype of a 2 axle wagon of double body beet, cement bubble, ballast wagon etc to the standard of the GM's and Cravens would be fantastic as opposed to the prestwin chassis route. So having said that my choices are. 121 Freight Rich,
rebelred Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I think the 121 is the obvious choice as most folk would buy at least 2 of them to use as double headers, i'd buy 2 to start with, i personally would love to see RTR bulk & bubble cements as well as Mark 4's to complement Paddys 201's but this is me, i'll buy any his products as they are all top quality products!
Broithe Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I think the 121 is the obvious choice as most folk would buy at least 2 of them to use as double headers, i'd buy 2 to start with, i personally would love to see RTR bulk & bubble cements as well as Mark 4's to complement Paddys 201's but this is me, i'll buy any his products as they are all top quality products! You have read my mind! Any idea where I've put the charger for my video camera...?
blacksod bay Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 it would have to be a 121 for me with murphys quality, just like the 141/181
Waterfordtrain Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I would be in favour of paddy being the one to support to , as he has had amazing model built to date and I would love to see some rtr freight models built as well ,fertiliser wagons etc .
GNRi Milepost 105 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 DCC A Class WT Steam DCC RTR Freight Wagons I would be prepared to prepay for a model of Murphy Models quality.
Warbonnet Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 a 121 or A class and only if Paddy Murphy was involved. I wouldn't be interested in the other company. It would be a slap in the face for Paddy after all MM have done for Irish modelling. Just to play devils advocate here; What if Paddy Murphy said he wasn't interested in such a venture?
Tarabuses Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Just to play devils advocate here; What if Paddy Murphy said he wasn't interested in such a venture? He is perfectly entitled to make that decision and continue to finance his own business as before. However, if he gave a commitment to produce the 121 then I don't think the crowd should encourage another manufacturer to do it. There are plenty of other projects for the crowd to finance.
richrua Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 yes I think Murphy models would deserve the support. At the end of the day top clsss models. But it seems to involve a lot more cost than i ever realised
Warbonnet Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 He is perfectly entitled to make that decision and continue to finance his own business as before. However, if he gave a commitment to produce the 121 then I don't think the crowd should encourage another manufacturer to do it. There are plenty of other projects for the crowd to finance. I think it would be commercial suicide for another crowd to do so. But if it wasn't a 121 (which I think DART Station is right about, it will happen under the MM banner) how would people feel about another venture having a go at something should demand dictate?
rebelred Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Just to play devils advocate here; What if Paddy Murphy said he wasn't interested in such a venture? Plan B would be Lego!!!
Noel Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Very interesting thread. The 'delicate' part is the retail dealers who are and have been MMs direct customers. We are only indirectly. Not sure how they might feel about MM supplying and initial batch of locos direct to us consumers (i.e. their customers). It seems from reading the thread so far that demand for an A class and 121 are clear favourites, with the 'A' having a 2/1 following. From a commercial point of view, given the past proliferation of A class locos all over the Irish rail network, pulling such a wide variety of stock, I guess folk are likely to buy more 'A' class models than 121s. But I could be misreading that. Many would buy a pair of 121s to double head nose to nose, but I suspect some folk might buy 4 or more 'A' class 001s. There is no doubt the 121 is very distinctive looking compared to the simplicity of an A class body. Again from a commercial point of view I would expect that an A class model body could be slightly less expensive to manufacture and assemble than a 121. The A body could be in one piece, whereas the 121 may probably be in three pieces like 141/181s, and then there is the fiddly labour intensive bit of sticking the walkway hand rails on. The existing 201 class should actually cost a little less than 071 as its a simpler body form to injection mould compare to the intricate shapes of 071, 141/181s with their walkway hand rails. Personally I prefer the look and nostalgia value of 121, but the 'A' class might be a more versatile model operationally on a layout as well as one of the most dominant locos of my childhood memories. I'd certainly be happy to pay up front for a few MM 'A' class locos - great track record, quality, precision and stunning runners.
NIRCLASS80 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I think it would be great for Paddy Murphy to continue making and developing the Locomotive market for Ireland with modellers of the irish scene giving him full support with their wallet. Crowd funding is all about producing an item with no middle man and making exactly the amount purchased by people in advance. Therefore I would say the first such venture needs to be a high quality wagon to support Murphy Models high quality locos.
Jimbo325ci Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Think it was mentioned earlier, but it may be more appropriate to test the whole crowd funding project with a run of something less complex but still in demand, such as a bogie cement/fertiliser/timber wagon. People would want multiple units, so even if they only ordered 1 or 2 initially they would likely buy more after it was produced. Maybe even offer multiple unit discounts. That might make it more appealing to a manufacturer or model shop to take on the project. With regard to this sort of project - it would obviously divert some consumers money away from the available models on sale now, but that would be a very short term issue. When modellers have the money again in 3 or 6 or however many months, they will start buying the 201's and 071's and MK11s etc while waiting for their orders. I think this would be a good opportunity for a model shop or MM to take on, especially if they gave a minimum requirement of 150-250 units pre sold in order to go ahead with it. They've guaranteed a certain number of sales, so some of the risk is offset. As mentioned before, the two biggest problems are getting the people to actually put their money where their mouth is, and getting a model shop/manufacturer on board.
BosKonay Posted November 17, 2014 Author Posted November 17, 2014 People would want multiple units, so even if they only ordered 1 or 2 initially they would likely buy more after it was produced. Maybe even offer multiple unit discounts. Typically with a crowdfunded project, there are no 'after it's produced' units available. Like the Rapido models APT, they are building the exact amount pre-ordered. The unit will not ever be 'for sale' after production, barring someone picking up the tooling for another run?
blacksod bay Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 on noel's earlier thread about 201's being made easier because of a single mould and cheaper, <just putting it out there> what about making the mk4 generator car, it would go well with the 201 intercity and easy enough to do your own mk4 carriages and would finish off a nice set. make it as a dummy carriage with no motor just directional and cab lights. we know that mm does a good running loco but this gets the ball rolling, start with a lower cost price and who knows what will happen
RedRich Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 on noel's earlier thread about 201's being made easier because of a single mould and cheaper, <just putting it out there> what about making the mk4 generator car, it would go well with the 201 intercity and easy enough to do your own mk4 carriages and would finish off a nice set. make it as a dummy carriage with no motor just directional and cab lights. we know that mm does a good running loco but this gets the ball rolling, start with a lower cost price and who knows what will happen To be honest I can't see a MK1V DVT ever being produced without the correct coaches being available. It's like taking one step forward and two steps back if repaints of UK coaches are used between the 201 and DVT. An example of how to do it right is the De Dietrich stock that D&M have produced. They produced correct DVT, Restaurant, and passenger stock. Rich, Rich,
blacksod bay Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 your right redrich in what you are saying, it was just an idea ,as you know money is hard to get but easy to spend and my idea was to make something not to hard ,not expensive and iron out any crease's in the project. if it worked then go for what people want. walk before you can run?? p.s i would still rather a 121
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