RAILS CANCEL HORNBY. PREORDERS

[Georgeconna]

Looks like Bit of a Fanny attack!

 Below statement in email just came in, Not Dealing with the big H anymore.  Man alive More drama with this railway lark then whats on TV.

Well W1 duly re ordered from the big M in Ireland..

[burnthebox]

Hi guys, have a look at this latest from RAILS....don’t know exactly what’s happening or maybe happened..!!
BTB

Rails of Sheffield Important Statement:

 

 

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Rails of Sheffield Unsubscribe	5:03 PM (4 hours ago)

 

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Dear Valued customer,  We regret to inform you that after over 35 years of trading with Hornby, with immediate effect we are unable to fulfil any orders for forthcoming release or out of stock Hornby products.  Therefore over the coming days we will be cancelling pre orders and informing customers personally. We apologise unreservedly for the inconvenience this will cause you.  We would like to make it clear that this only affects Hornby products that are on pre order or out of stock. All our other extensive range of brands are unaffected.  John Barber Managing Director Rails of Sheffield Limited

Edited August 25, 2020 by burnthebox

[amdaley]

That's very strange although Hattons had a similar problem with Bachmann which seems to have been solved now.

It had to do with the discount that Hattons wanted to apply so it seems.

Might be the same problem between Rails & Hornby ?

Don't know whats going to happen if the UK leave the EU without some sort of deal.

I'm sure the Irish Customs are sharpening their pencils in anticipation 

 

[murphaph]

More shelf space for Accurascale and IRM products

 

[BosKonay]

The Hattons / bachmann issue remains unresolved unfortunately. it was due to hattons becoming a manufacturer in their own right. Not discounts. 
 

 

[Georgeconna]

Fingers crossed they don't have a spaz attack with Mr Murphy.

Spose The Terriers having a go at each other was one, The Rocket Coach was another, some other bloke mentioned something to do with Short Supplying the Duchess of Atholl 100 years Anniversary model (its only LMS anyway so dont know what the big deal is).

the big lads want to hoover everything up it seems and there pre orders were not fulfilled. They only made 500 so spreading those models about was going to be thin anyway.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Georgeconna

[Georgeconna]

Class 66 was the Hattons duplicate (lots of complaints with that one and the rocking motion whilst running, Rails to had problems with Terriers too), In all fairness they wade into the water and get burnt. They were giving out when Hornnby wanted to sell off the website directly too.

I read that they were buying up other shops Baccy stock to flog on.

 

[Edo]

33 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

Class 66 was the Hattons duplicate (lots of complaints with that one and the rocking motion whilst running, Rails to had problems with Terriers too), In all fairness they wade into the water and get burnt. They were giving out when Hornnby wanted to sell off the website directly too.

I read that they were buying up other shops Baccy stock to flog on.

 

How do ye get burnt wading into water?

 

Ok ....the Pedant is now leaving the building....

[Noel]

That raised the thought, Both Hornby and Bachmann must be more than a little displeased with and scared of Accurascale's landmine entry to the UK market and in particular announcements last year about the Class 37 and Deltics right on their own homeland 'patch', and scared of the level of detailing and fine scale accuracy that IRM/AS are bringing to the UK market having proved their credentials already with the successful and highly well received wagons. German/Swiss model engineering standards but at UK price point. AS raising the bar to uncomfortable levels for the complacent incumbents. Watch out, the empire might try and strike back by releasing a model of the 'turf burner' on to the Irish market, or the nuclear option of a fisher price 22k toy yo-yo complete with clock work mechanism.  It's been great to observe from the sidelines an Irish start up make a successful entry into the UK market and shake things up as regards model standards, precision and innovation. Proud of what this Irish start up has achieved.

[Galteemore]

9 minutes ago, Edo said:

How do ye get burnt wading into water?

 

Ok ....the Pedant is now leaving the building....

Depends on the water. 

[Old Blarney]

Ah, now, don't be pouring Oil on that!

 

[amdaley]

5 hours ago, BosKonay said:

The Hattons / bachmann issue remains unresolved unfortunately. it was due to hattons becoming a manufacturer in their own right. Not discounts. 
 

 

Thanks for the clarification as I though it was to do with the 15% discount limit that was placed on sellers 

[mphoey]

11 hours ago, Noel said:

That raised the thought, Both Hornby and Bachmann must be more than a little displeased with and scared of Accurascale's landmine entry to the UK market and in particular announcements last year about the Class 37 and Deltics right on their own homeland 'patch', and scared of the level of detailing and fine scale accuracy that IRM/AS are bringing to the UK market having proved their credentials already with the successful and highly well received wagons. German/Swiss model engineering standards but at UK price point. AS raising the bar to uncomfortable levels for the complacent incumbents. Watch out, the empire might try and strike back by releasing a model of the 'turf burner' on to the Irish market, or the nuclear option of a fisher price 22k toy yo-yo complete with clock work mechanism.  It's been great to observe from the sidelines an Irish start up make a successful entry into the UK market and shake things up as regards model standards, precision and innovation. Proud of what this Irish start up has achieved.

well said noel but hornby and bachmann burned their bridges when they decided we were not a market for them so let accurascale show them up they deserve it

[jhb171achill]

16 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Depends on the water. 

That's not water, Galteemore. That's poitín, all the way from Wisht Ciarraí, boy!

It is an interesting thought that the likes of IRM, neither British nor large, might have seriously rippled the waters of Bachmann Hornby Overdrive &  Hattonsheffield Corporation PLC Inc., and had them summer-salting over their smelling saults over high-quality standards.....

Edited August 27, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Broithe]

27 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

That's not water, Galteemore. That's poitín, all the way from Wisht Ciarraí, boy!

It is an interesting thought that the likes of IRM, neither Britiah nor large, might have seriously rippled the waters of Bachmann Hornby Overdrive &  Hattonsheffield Corporation PLC Inc., and had them summer-salting over their smelling saults over high-quality standards.....

You ain't seen nothing yet...

[Georgeconna]

When the high Spec Accurascale Bulleids start to come out then the big H might get a wobble or two!

 

[Mayner]

Kader (Bachmann) dropped the ball about 10 years ago when the decided to concentrate on high volume production for their own brands and ceased OEM work for companies like Hornby and smaller commissioners like Murphy Models.

Although  this lead to some short term disruption it opened up an opportunity for a new generation of Chinese OEM manufacturers that supply large companies like Hornby and a multitude of smaller commissioners like Accurascale, IRM, MM, Hattons, Kernew, Rails, Revolutions Trains etc who have lifted expectations in terms of quality and detail while long established businesses Bachmann & Hornby struggle to respond.

Rails and Hattons appear to have similar purchasing power to the big supermarket & retail chains being price setters rather than takers will treat suppliers like Bachmann & Hornby in a similar manner even establishing their own brand models like the Hattons SECR P & 14XX and Rails collaboration with Dapol on the A1/Ax and Accucrascale on the Class 89.

I would not discount Irish business initiative or enterprise; low volume Chinese manufacture and significant gaps in the market opened up an opportunity for IRM & Accurascale to enter the Irish & UK rtr market in much the same way as Irish owned businesses like Kerry and Glanbia (Avonmore co-op) have become Global food businesses, CRH (Cement Roadstone Holdings) an international building materials business.

 

 

[murphaph]

Good shout on CRH John. When I was taking delivery of pallets of paving stones recently from a company down the road from me in Germany I was pleasantly surprised to see the words (in English) "EHL - a CRH company" on the plastic wrapping. 

EHL was a long established and relatively large local manufacturer, bought out by CRH at some stage. Could we see "Hornby - an Accurascale company" in the model shop of the future?! Why not!

[Noel]

Why would a successful startup even want to take on the burden of a doomed enterprise like Hornby? Hornby companies seems part of a sunset industry. Profit is sanity, turnover is vanity.

[murphaph]

Still the most recognised brand name in model railway stuff in the UK and Ireland though, and in several other former parts of the empire. 

Kader Holdings deliberately retained the names of the companies they took over, closed down the less profitable stuff and moved manufacturing to China.

But it was a bit tongue in cheek I'll grant you.

[Noel]

On 8/27/2020 at 11:50 AM, murphaph said:

Still the most recognised brand name in model railway stuff in the UK and Ireland though, and in several other former parts of the empire. 

Kader Holdings deliberately retained the names of the companies they took over, closed down the less profitable stuff and moved manufacturing to China.

But it was a bit tongue in cheek I'll grant you.

Hornby has always smacked of 'el-cheapo' poor engineering poor chassis, toy town model bodies. Bachmann came in with Branchline in the late 80s and early 90s and showed that better quality  was possible while Hornby clung to 'Try-Ang' standards rather than going up a gear to German and Swiss modelling standards. Still the brand name evokes a strong nostalgia pull from they days when every small boy got a toy train set for a Christmas or a Birthday. The sad reality is nowadays kids don't play with physical toys requiring tactile feed nor assembly skills, it has to be a dancing LCD screen that entertains them rather then them using their imagination to build and operate imaginary worlds (eg Lego, Mecanno, Wooden blocks, train sets, scalextric, airfoil). Modern toys have driven the engineer and creative imaginative skills out of children. I remember the first time I visited a friends German model railway layout in the late 1980s, digital by then, lights, precision flywheel balanced intricate chassis, electric uncouplers, and I remember the realisation the UK stuff was junk in the dark ages, long left behind, entrenched only in nostalgia, from another century. One of the things about IRM/AS I admire is their rejection of past standards that were once deemed acceptable and instead saying why not, why not build to a level of precision and hyper detail the market has not seen in this part of the world, refusing to accept that it is not possible. Well their products state other wise. Raising the bar to uncomfortable levels for complacent incumbents. The hard trick is to be profitable while aiming high.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Noel

[RedRich]

Please tell me how the current Hornby class 60 the 08 the HST twins, not to mention many amazing Steam Locos and coaching stock are toy town models. Some of their wagons are superb models also. 

If you are going to thrash a manufacturer at least judge them fairly accross their entire catalogue. The 60 and 08 are definitely in the highest echelons of 00 gauge models including  models from Bachmann IRM, Accurascale, Dapol. Do a bit of research before you hit submit reply.

Rich,

[DoctorPan]

"Hornby clung to "Try-Ang" standards"

 

I'm sorry but of all the bull you've spewed, this takes the biscuit. The Merchant Navies, 60s, 08s, Teaks, Pullmans always drove the expected norm for a model up a notch from fine detail, smooth running, livery application, behaviour you praise IRM/AS for doing the exact same a decade later.

 

I take it then all the awards Hornby has won for its models are just junk, dark ages inward looking or is it kids brain melted from leds, ICRs and the smell of plastics?

[Georgeconna]

Noel still is stuck in the Triang there Rich! 

Some Cracking UK stuff right across the board these days.

1980's German stuff was classy, Weighty but came with a hefty price tag. Never could get over the little bumps in the middle of the sleeper though.

I remember visiting a colleague of my fathers work In Ballincollig, He had a Marklin set up in his sons room. Used to love visiting as of course I would be ushered upstairs for the duration of the visit.

All the collection was sold off as he pegged it in his late 40's, (Heavy Smooker)  I got one loco from his wife for my efforts in 're oganising' the layout each time I visited!

 

 

[Buz]

Hi all

The current Hornby doesn't in the important area's manage to rise to the Triang standards.

Hornby make toys and some very creditable models and is now re-tooling some of its product to higher standards.

However what is inside a lot of them is rubbish and the use of traction tyres doesn't say a lot for design either.

The available after sales service from Hornby for spares is a joke.

Any model that needs traction tyres is a fail from the word go, and will fail due to tyre wear and you can't get replacement tyres.

Funny how my so called dark ages models are Not failing and still running well OK some of the detail is a bit yes well by today's standards, but they look like a train when moving.

Yet some of the nice looking modern stuff I have is dead due to a lack of a proper spare parts service.

Doesn't matter how great and fantastic it looks if whats in side is cheap Chinese rubbish and spares are not available, afraid Hornby isn't the great company it used to be they really need to sort the quality of whats inside the body and the service side of things and stop just relying on the Hornby name to see them through.

regards John

Edited August 28, 2020 by Buz

[NIRCLASS80]

Hornby do make some great models.  As for quality the only locomotive I can judge is their class 50. I have had them since the first ones were released in 2002/03. Eighteen of them later and have never had a problem. All of them are run regularly and they are super smooth and quiet and will pull 50 coaches if you have the room. 
They don’t meet the latest lighting functions you can find on recent releases but they are a good sound model. 
 

Hornby do make a range of models to suit different budgets but an example is the Class 66. I wouldn’t entertain buying one but I do know that a local modelshop that sold bucket loads recently with all the different liveries released. 
 

Everyone has a desired standard and thankfully we are all different!

[murphaph]

Piko here in Germany also has different ranges with differing levels of detail and price (eg Hobby, Expert). 

[Georgeconna]

Man alive Buz, 

I have 3 Schools class with Traction tyres and they are possibly the best runners out of everything I have and are great pullers, I've had them now for a good number of years. 

Lack of Spare Tyre's? Try here, there are quite a few to choose from:  https://www.petersspares.com/index.jsp?searchStr=traction+tyres

You have to wonder what the Spares situation will be like for the Irish stuff in years to come,  Already hard to get hhandrails for the 141's. Perhaps a lot of dead locos?

[murphaph]

Dead locos? I wouldn't say so. The drivetrain is surely made of generic parts or parts you can substitute. The PCB is a simple passive affair that you could bridge should anything really bad happen.

Handrails can be replicated. I'd say the only thing that will cause a MM loco to be retired is a smashed bodyshell.

[DiveController]

Might be able to take harvest some handrails from a hand-railed BnT 121 and take it back a year to when it didn't have any I suppose

[Buz]

23 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Man alive Buz, 

I have 3 Schools class with Traction tyres and they are possibly the best runners out of everything I have and are great pullers, I've had them now for a good number of years. 

Lack of Spare Tyre's? Try here, there are quite a few to choose from:  https://www.petersspares.com/index.jsp?searchStr=traction+tyres

You have to wonder what the Spares situation will be like for the Irish stuff in years to come,  Already hard to get hhandrails for the 141's. Perhaps a lot of dead locos?

Ask your self why do my three schools class have a part (the traction tyre) that if they had been designed properly they would not need.

In Aus spare parts for any brand of train are hard to get.

On 8/29/2020 at 6:18 PM, murphaph said:

Dead locos? I wouldn't say so. The drivetrain is surely made of generic parts or parts you can substitute. The PCB is a simple passive affair that you could bridge should anything really bad happen.

Handrails can be replicated. I'd say the only thing that will cause a MM loco to be retired is a smashed bodyshell.

Why do I need a PCB board for unless it has pick ups mounted on it.

The motors on my dead ones are had it and Hornby can't or won't supply replacements and they are modern production with throw away motors. I am guessing only one motor fits the Hornby one I cant get

The MM locomotives I have are made by Bachmann for so spare parts should be accessible through Bachmann I would think.

Its the lack of spare parts  and repair-ability in the modern stuff I hate,  back up service that to me trumps exquisite detail every time.

I would settle for recognizable as what it is supposed to be less fiddly bits to break.

But why can't I have the good design with back up service and parts, why is it  super detail poor design and without the service or parts.

regards John

[murphaph]

You don't strictly speaking need a PCB but it saves a lot of space. I have installed decoders into older locos with no PCB/no decoder socket and it's a right pain. Each wire needs soldering and insulating etc. and then you need to squeeze the lot inside the body. A PCB is much better and costs next to nothing. They are largely generic I think. If the particular loco doesn't have function z, then nothing gets soldered to the pad. A simple PCB is actually extremely unlikely to cause any problems that you wouldn't otherwise have with a bundle of wires.

Even on DC a PCB is preferable to a load of wires IMO.

[Georgeconna]

The Schools do the job they are meant to do and very well. Tender and front bogie pick up make it a sweet runner. Even with a Die cast Chassis a 4-4-0 would not have the traction to pull what it needs to pull. I have no issue with the design.

Copy that being in Aus.

 

[mmie353]

Has Rails made up with Hornby or something? https://railsofsheffield.com/collections/hornby

[BosKonay]

2 hours ago, mmie353 said:

Has Rails made up with Hornby or something? https://railsofsheffield.com/collections/hornby

Yes.