Murphy Models new 201 and Mk3 coaches

[hexagon789]

9 minutes ago, JasonB said:

Great news all round. Obviously, the stand out model from the announcement has got to be the Mk3 stock. But I have to admit, I was pleasantly surprised to see the Galway livreried Mk2d included. Not everyone's cup of tea I know, but for some strange reason I've a soft spot for them.  

Personally I'd have liked more of the fleet to have been refurbished and/or reliveried. The image didn't really work having mixed IR/Galway sets

[DJ Dangerous]

19 minutes ago, JasonB said:

Great news all round. Obviously, the stand out model from the announcement has got to be the Mk3 stock. But I have to admit, I was pleasantly surprised to see the Galway livreried Mk2d included. Not everyone's cup of tea I know, but for some strange reason I've a soft spot for them.  

Those Galways are gorgeous! I can't wait to pick up some of them to replace my Lima Galway's.

[gm171 kk]

A friend of mine has footage of the push pulls regularly operating on the Waterford line in 1994 hauled by BGMs. 

Then operated in push pull when the 201s arrived. 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by gm171 kk

[108]

I remember when the Push Pulls started that the 121’s struggled with Control Car plus 5. Most services ran as Control Car plus 3 between the peaks. Spare cars left in the Boston sidings. 
I had a single trip to Maynooth with a Control Car plus 1, hauled both ways by a 141. Not sure how common that was. 

[Ironroad]

4 hours ago, murphaph said:

I forgot about the LHB bogies. That's going to be an interesting decision for MM to make. Most people probably want to run them in the earlier configuration with 121s.

My preference is for the early configuration  with 121's. that's an image fixed in my memory.

[Keitheg6]

3 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

Dublin - Waterford 2003  -2005 trains were a mixture of MK 3 sets, Push/Pull sets and Cravens. Some of the  Push/Pull sets I travelled on were not worked in Push/Pull mode by the 201's and they ran round at Kilkenny and Waterford. One of the Cravens sets sometimes included a coach with the buffet at the end. They all appear in Ernie's Archive on Flickr either photos or on video.

One from up the hill at Waterford in June 2005

 

Cracking shot .... still the Green dont come close to the Orange in my eyes , Just says "Hello im here "  I'll never forget the plates of chips you could get, made for a day out 

[Mayner]

The Push-Pull driving cars were originally designed to be convertible to diesel electric railcars with A/C traction motors hence the LHB bogies.

IE applied for Government funding in the mid 1980s to build 20 MK3 based diesel railcars for suburban and branchline duties in addition to the 126? coaches in the Main Line MK3 programme.

The application to build the railcars was rejected, instead authorisation was provided to build 6 Push Pull driving cars and the last 20 coaches of the MK3 programme were set up as trailer cars for Push-Pull operation. I have an IE/BREL drawing of a MK3 push pull coach titled "Railcar Trailer.

[murphaph]

Some great information in this thread. It seems the push pulls made at least sporadic trips on scheduled services to Waterford by the mid 90s but likely not with a solitary 121 as they were run out of Connolly.

I feel it likely that if they were filmed on the Waterford with a 121/141 pair that it's highly likely a 201 would have been used for this role soon after they started arriving as they were push pull equipped from the start.

I think modelling a 201 and a rake of push pulls on the Waterford line ca. 1995 would pass the plausibility test, even if it wasn't a common occurrence.

They definitely made it down that way on specials even with a single 121 and control car plus 5 or 6 (can't see on my phone to clearly):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jncarter1962/17826420825/in/photolist-tag4Rc

[Mayner]

127 worked a Push-Pull set on a South Eastern Section on a "Sea Breeze" or Enniscorthy festival special in the early 2000s . The south bound special was held to cross the up afternoon passenger and an empty Ammonia working at Greystones so it would have been a slow journey by any standards.

 

[JasonB]

14 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Personally I'd have liked more of the fleet to have been refurbished and/or reliveried. The image didn't really work having mixed IR/Galway sets

I'm aware most think the livery was a failure from the beginning and never worked, along with the cost of refurbishing them at the time. To be honest, I'm not particularly interested either way. From a modelling point of view, I like seeing them mixed in a set. It adds a bit of interest in my opinion. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by JasonB

[Irishswissernie]

Found a photo of 223 coming off the Waterford line at Cherryville June 2005 hauling a Push/Pull set Driving Trailer first.

Now were the 201's all push/pull fitted when first into service. My Platform 5 first edition indicates that only the 4 dedicated Enterprise locos 206-209 plus 228,229 & 230 were push/pull fitted initially. A quick check through my photos from May 2000 at Drogheda only  confirm 228 and 229 on the push/pull sets. Coincidence?

Muine Bheag 220 October 2000

This video also shows 220 running round the set at Kilkenny and also illustrates that the trailer was somewhat noisy to travel in. footage between 5.17 and 7.10

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Irishswissernie

[DJ Dangerous]

45 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

Found a photo of 223 coming off the Waterford line at Cherryville June 2005 hauling a Push/Pull set Driving Trailer first.

Now were the 201's all push/pull fitted when first into service. My Platform 5 first edition indicates that only the 4 dedicated Enterprise locos 206-209 plus 228,229 & 230 were push/pull fitted initially. A quick check through my photos from May 2000 at Drogheda only  confirm 228 and 229 on the push/pull sets. Coincidence?

I thought that 201 - 205 and 210 - 214 were not push-pull capable, so were abandoned and left to rot outside Inchicore?

[Wexford70]

Push pull on the Rosslare line in 1993

From Facebook. 

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, Irishswissernie said:

Found a photo of 223 coming off the Waterford line at Cherryville June 2005 hauling a Push/Pull set Driving Trailer first.

Now were the 201's all push/pull fitted when first into service. My Platform 5 first edition indicates that only the 4 dedicated Enterprise locos 206-209 plus 228,229 & 230 were push/pull fitted initially. A quick check through my photos from May 2000 at Drogheda only  confirm 228 and 229 on the push/pull sets. Coincidence?

Muine Bheag 220 October 2000

This video also shows 220 running round the set at Kilkenny and also illustrates they that the trailer was somewhat noisy to travel in. footage between 5.17 and 7.10

 

Only 10 were not push-pull fitted which as DJ says was 201-205 and 210-214.

 

21 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I thought that 201 - 205 and 210 - 214 were not push-pull capable, so were abandoned and left to rot outside Inchicore?

Yes, exactly that. Of the remaining locos 9 are equipped to operate into Northern Ireland and that completes the three subclasses -

Non push-pull

Push-pull

Push-pull + NIR train radio & AWS/TPWS fitted

3 hours ago, JasonB said:

I'm aware most think the livery was a failure from the beginning and never worked, along with the cost of refurbishing them at the time. To be honest, I'm not particularly interested either way. From a modelling point of view, I like seeing them mixed in a set. It adds a bit of interest in my opinion. 

It adds interest certainly but I think I would've liked the whole fleet so turned out

[murphaph]

Push pulls being propelled by a 201 on Waterford line by 2001 (32 mins). I genuinely suspect as stated by gm171 kk already that these units saw regular enough push pull duties with 201s on the Waterford line soon after the push pull capable 201s were delivered:

 

[mmie353]

I am wondering, if there is enough interest in the Cravens in a re-release, when would we be looking at an ETA for them? 

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, mmie353 said:

I am wondering, if there is enough interest in the Cravens in a re-release, when would we be looking at an ETA for them? 

2024?

1 minute ago, mmie353 said:

I am wondering, if there is enough interest in the Cravens in a re-release, when would we be looking at an ETA for them? 

2024?

[murphaph]

I'd certainly take a rake of Cravens with updated running numbers. How will PM judge demand I wonder? Just asking the retailers?

[CFD]

Yes, this was also my question earlier on in the thread as these would be top of my list....be interesting to see how interest might be measured...

 

[Georgeconna]

15 hours ago, murphaph said:

I'd certainly take a rake of Cravens with updated running numbers. How will PM judge demand I wonder? Just asking the retailers?

Interesting thought, I wont be needing any Cravens , far too many probably as it is. 

 

[Wexford70]

Might Paddy do the full set of Galways including the Generator vans? 

Was a never able to pick up the different sets and would love a complete rake.

 

[murphaph]

4 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Interesting thought, I wont be needing any Cravens , far too many probably as it is. 

 

Flog a rake of the originals and buy a rake of the updated ones maybe? 

[Noel]

26 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Flog a rake of the originals and buy a rake of the updated ones maybe? 

Crossed my mind indeed. I bought a spare rake very inexpensively some years ago on ebay with the intention of respraying them into RPSI Blue'n'cream, but never got around to it. The IE/IR tippex versions I have will definitely be resprayed into CIE single white stripe livery. Tippex is way too modern for my CIE era.

[murphaph]

Maybe hold off and see what PM releases. He might release single stripe versions and then you can just sell your tippex ones and buy as many of the singles as you need and renumber. Should easily get the price of the new ones by selling the old ones and then you have a factory spray job. I hope to see single stripe ones released too. I don't have many of those at all, nearly all tippex. 

[DJ Dangerous]

19 minutes ago, Noel said:

Crossed my mind indeed. I bought a spare rake very inexpensively some years ago on ebay with the intention of respraying them into RPSI Blue'n'cream, but never got around to it. The IE/IR tippex versions I have will definitely be resprayed into CIE single white stripe livery. Tippex is way too modern for my CIE era.

I'm happy to buy any unwanted Cravens very inexpensively.

[murphaph]

Conclusive proof that the push pulls were operated in push pull mode by the 201s soon after the locos were delivered. Earliest shot in the following video is from mid 1996 already with a 201 propelling a PP set along the Waterford line.

 

[murphaph]

Might be interesting to (in particular) ESU Loksound/Lokprogrammer users who intend buying the mk3 driving trailers:

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-5-fx/

It's a new product from ESU. It's a Loksound 5 fx, which means it does sound and lighting but has no motor control circuitry, so it's a third cheaper or so. You'd need a suitable or close enough "prime mover" sound to replicate the generator in the driving trailer. Does anybody know what generator engines were used in them? You'd also need a horn sound from somewhere, youtube maybe (and a Lokprogrammer to get the sounds on the chip of course)

It would work best in conjunction with a full fat Loksound 5 in the loco, so that it could be synced (brake squeal mainly). 

If money is no object one could equip normal EGVs with such decoders to get the generator sound vibe if desired, though if you slap the EGV behind the loco you probably wouldn't hear it over the EMD prime mover.

[K801]

Thanks for posting that video murphaph

My late uncle Stephen o'Keeffe is the train guard in the cab, thanks for all the foot plate rides Stephen, we miss you very much!

[murphaph]

You're welcome K801. The video is from The Irish Mainline and he told me he has more mid 90s videos to post up so check his channel out. I really like it. You may see more clips of your late uncle.

[Bumble_Bee]

On 7/3/2021 at 6:13 PM, murphaph said:

I'd certainly take a rake of Cravens with updated running numbers. How will PM judge demand I wonder? Just asking the retailers?

 

On 7/3/2021 at 11:37 PM, CFD said:

Yes, this was also my question earlier on in the thread as these would be top of my list....be interesting to see how interest might be measured...

 

Hi all,

 

Apologies if this sort of post isn't allowed on the forum, but I have been having these exact same questions myself over the last few weeks and decided to do something about it. 

 

I can understand that back in the 90s etc, it would have been difficult to gauge interest in irish railway models, but in todays social media age I believe it would be easier than ever. 

 

I understand that MM and IRM for example have their own facebook pages, as do other manufacturers, and they can maybe use these to get an idea of interest, however I would personally like to have a bit more science to it. 

To that end, I have created a facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/Irish-Railway-Model-Enthusiasts-104105321748403

The aims of the page are the following:

1 - To reach as many irish railway modellers as possible, so that companies can use these numbers as a gauge of interest. (not the number of likes on the page, but participation in polls etc run by the page, as this allows for a more accurate guesstimate of interest)

 

2 - To raise the profile of Irish prototypes in other parts of the world, that can be reached on social media, which would further drive demand. This will show companies that its not just a handful of lads on a wee island in the atlantic that want these models, but that potential is there for a larger market. It will be particularly important to get momentum going in the UK and the US given their already large model railway markets. 

 

3 - To be completely neutral. The page would aim to work with companies to gather information for releases by running polls etc and gauging interest, however the page would not accept sponsorships or advertising from any company. There will be no favouritism or hate thrown towards any model railway company, the aim is to raise awareness and raise ideas etc, not to do reviews on existing products. 

 

4 - To push the case for more RTR Irish models, in under-represented areas (such as steam, or NIR for example). Don't get me wrong, kit builds are great and this forum showcases that well, there are tonnes of talented people making awesome kits, however, the reality is that most model railway folks are not at that level, and more RTR models on the market will be extremely important for getting people involved in the hobby who may not have the skills to make brass kits yet, everyone starts somewhere afterall.

 

5 - To build on point 4, to brainstorm and suggest ways for accurate entry level models to be made. (No I am not talking about Hornby doing their orange hymeks or anything like that lol), I am talking about, for example, a railroad level locomotive that is representative of a real Irish prototype. This step is super important for getting the next generation involved. It may also be a way for certain manufacturers to dip their toe into the Irish market and see what happens.  

 

At the moment, the page is very sparse as I have only just set it up, but if we can get interest going and get it growing, then in my view it would be a great way to show companies that there IS in fact more of a market for it than they realise. My nightmare would be for MM for example to underestimate interest and only produce very small numbers of the announced stock, only for it to be hoarded and flogged on Ebay in a few years time for extortionate prices. Would it not be better for everyone involved to have accurate expressions of interest? 

[murphaph]

Good stuff. I like the clean graphics. Page liked  

[mfjoc]

Now that our appetites are about satiated by the A Class being actually delivered is there any news from Paddy 

I badly need a Mk 3 set in CIE livery

[CFD]

I need some Cravens....

[DJ Dangerous]

Mk2D's first I hope!

[BosKonay]

Perhaps IRM will be announcing ranges of coaches somewhat sooner