Limerick to Foynes railway reopening plan

[spudfan]

Limerick to Foynes railway reopening plan | News | Railway Gazette International

[mmie353]

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/contractors-wanted-to-restore-irish-railway-04-08-2022/#:~:text=The Limerick to Foynes railway,track and civil engineering infrastructure.

[snapper]

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by snapper

[Branchline121]

I've probably said this a million times before but I do hope the old railway line in North Meath gets the same treatment with this whole 'freight plan' thing.

[patrick]

What traffic is expected on the line and do Irish Rail have rolling stock to handle it?

[DoctorPan]

2 hours ago, patrick said:

What traffic is expected on the line and do Irish Rail have rolling stock to handle it?

Zinc Ore is one of the expected traffic, hence the new procurement process they started a while back for new wagons including ore wagons

 

https://www.railwaygazette.com/freight/iarnrod-eireann-plans-to-award-wagon-supply-framework-contract/62799.article

[Noel]

10 hours ago, DoctorPan said:

Zinc Ore is one of the expected traffic, hence the new procurement process they started a while back for new wagons including ore wagons

 

https://www.railwaygazette.com/freight/iarnrod-eireann-plans-to-award-wagon-supply-framework-contract/62799.article

For the Russian Aughinish Alumina plant perhaps?

Aughinish Alumina near Foynes

Edited October 30, 2022 by Noel

[murphaph]

I think Aughinish Alumina processes imported Bauxite. I suspect the zinc ore mentioned here is for export (to be mined at Palllasgreen I believe). I wonder would Boliden look at shipping their ore out through Foynes as well if it's cheaper than Dublin. They did ship it through Foynes for a while I believe.

[MOGUL]

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

I think Aughinish Alumina processes imported Bauxite. I suspect the zinc ore mentioned here is for export (to be mined at Palllasgreen I believe). I wonder would Boliden look at shipping their ore out through Foynes as well if it's cheaper than Dublin. They did ship it through Foynes for a while I believe.

Aughinish inports it bauxite in large bulk vessels, mainly from Brazil.. It then exports finished alumina by sea in smaller vessels around Europe.. A friends Grandfather was a ships captain with Arklow shipping and a regular run for him was from Aughinish to Blyth with Alumina, from Blyth the Alumina is railed to Fort William and Lynemouth.. Aughinish receives and ships all its tonnage by sea from its own berth in the river rather than the main Foynes operation..

 

Tara never shipped from Foynes, and have their own terminal in Dublin port so this is unlikely.. However Foynes did ship Zinc that was railed from Silvermines, on behalf of a Canadian company called… Mogul!

[Irishswissernie]

23 minutes ago, MOGUL said:

from Blyth the Alumina is railed to Fort William and Lynemouth..

Only to Fort William now as Lynemouth was closed ca 2014. On a brighter note the Alcan Power station which provided the Lynemouth smelter with electricity has eventually been converted to burn biomass and has been re-opened by its new owner. Usually 2 2000 ton biomass trains are railed to the Power station each day from Port of Tyne Terminal when the Power station is 'on-stream'. At present the company is making more money selling the Biomass at Port of Tyne to other Power stations as in the current mild climate demand for electricity is low. Rail shipments and electricity generation are predicted to re-start once colder weather comes next month.

[murphaph]

I think someone on here once said that Tara mines ore went out through Foynes at the very beginning before the tippler in Dublin port was ready?

[patrick]

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

I think someone on here once said that Tara mines ore went out through Foynes at the very beginning before the tippler in Dublin port was ready?

The traffic went to Arklow for a while in 1992 for some reason. Four wheel flats and open top containers were used. There is a video somewhere on you tube.

Edited October 30, 2022 by patrick

[murphaph]

I think that time Tara Mines were in a disagreement with Dublin Port over fees and they wanted to prove a point. They used those Amficon 20' containers with tarps.

[Mayner]

10 hours ago, murphaph said:

I think someone on here once said that Tara mines ore went out through Foynes at the very beginning before the tippler in Dublin port was ready?

The initial shipments from Tara Mines were railed through Foynes (possibly in Mogul or Barytes wagons) as a result of an industrial dispute at Dublin Port.

The Tara Mine Terminal on Gouldings Wharf was blacked by former Goulding Fertiliser workers in an attempt to improve their redundancy payout.

Its difficult to see Tara output being transferred from Dublin Port to Foynes.

Its likely to take at a number of years to construct an ore terminal capable of unloading high capacity bogie wagons at Foynes,  while Tara Mines  appears to be approaching the end of its economic life with an estimated 8 years reserves in 2020.

Its possible that Boliden may absorb the output of the Pallas Green ore body as a replacement for Tara Mines as it approaches exhaustion, as opposed to the Pallas Green output going to a different smelter.

[Noel]

The size of some of these bulk carriers at Aughinish's loading quay was impressive. They are frequent visitors to the Shannon Estuary. On another point at one time 80% of Ireland's energy fuel arrived into Ireland via the Shannon Estuary (ie Coal, Oil, Pethertil, etc).

[Edo]

https://www.afloat.ie/port-news/shannon-estuary/item/56928-work-to-reopen-port-of-foynes-limerick-freight-railway-line

I still can't get my head around the fact that this is actually going ahead - I thought there was the usual "positive noises" for the local media and politicians , the usual "reviewing the situation" and the line would sleep on becoming more overgrown and this very irish "squatters rights" would kick in soon and that would be that.....but no.....great!

Given the absence of any mention of who exactly is going to be using the line for freight...........could this finally be an outbreak of .............wait  for it..............long term planning?....ie lets build the infrastructure first and then go after customers.

Obviously lots of EU money and state money going into this - great - its about time and will hopefully be start of investing and getting Limericks rail infrastructure back in use.

Given I now live Shannonside - I'll be watching this project with great interest.

 

 

[murphaph]

Limerick is an ideal city in which to develop commuter rail. It actually has railways that are not built on going out in multiple directions from the city. RTE reports that the new rail for the reopening is arriving into Foynes Port (presumably by ship). This all did rather come out of the blue for me too. I assumed it would be report after report and then nothing. If the line is rebuilt to carry freight it will be relatively trivial to add passenger services later.

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2022/1114/1335959-foynes-limerick-rail-line/

[DoctorPan]

2 hours ago, Edo said:

Given the absence of any mention of who exactly is going to be using the line for freight...........could this finally be an outbreak of .............wait  for it..............long term planning?....ie lets build the infrastructure first and then go after customers.

 

No there is a customer already idenified for the line and one of the main drivers on the scheme. I did some of the design work for the alignment back in 19 for the client and if their plans are coming through, lot of freight flows will be heading through Foynes.

44 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Limerick is an ideal city in which to develop commuter rail. It actually has railways that are not built on going out in multiple directions from the city. RTE reports that the new rail for the reopening is arriving into Foynes Port (presumably by ship). This all did rather come out of the blue for me too. I assumed it would be report after report and then nothing. If the line is rebuilt to carry freight it will be relatively trivial to add passenger services later.

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2022/1114/1335959-foynes-limerick-rail-line/

 

It's all a matter of optismisng the cant for lower freight speeds and for higher passenger speeds, minimising the amount of over cantedness for the freight trains and under cantedness for passenger.

[snapper]

Construction to begin on new Limerick to Foynes railway line

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/964705/construction-to-begin-on-new-limerick-to-foynes-railway-line.html#.Y3Kp7al7tkA.twitter

 

Quote

THE first sections of track to be laid on the restored Limerick to Foynes railway line arrived at Foynes Port over the weekend.

Jim Meade, chief Executive of Iarnród Éireann, was joined by Pat Keating, his counterpart at Shannon Foynes Port Company, at the port this Monday to witness the unloading of the shipment.

Construction on phase one of the project, which will last around two years, is set to begin in the coming weeks.

The 42km stretch of railway between Limerick and Foynes originally opened in 1858 but closed to passenger traffic in 1963. Freight services continued until 2001 and when these services ceased the line was declared inactive but remained under the stewardship of Iarnród Éireann. 

The project is being funded by the Department of Transport and phase one will see vegetation being cleared and the removal of the existing track. 

 

 

Bridges and culverts along the 42km route will be rehabilitated or renewed and new rail and concrete sleepers will be sintalled along the entire route.

Phase one will also see the renewal of road infrastructure at public road level crossings, the renewal of accommodation crossings and lineside fencing.

Phase two of the project, which will continue for about 18 months, will include the provision of a signalling system, CCTV level crossings, train communications system and track connections and upgrades at Limerick and in Foynes Yard.

Iarnród Éireann says the project will initially facilitate rail freight services and that further investment and upgrades will be required to facilitate the re-introduction of passenger services on the line.

The transport company has acknowledged the co-operation and support of Shannon Foynes Port Company and Limerick City and County Council in bringing the project to the construction stage.

"Seeing the work commence on reopening of the Limerick to Foynes rail line is a proud day for us at Iarnród Éireann. Our Rail Freight Strategy is all about creating connections and giving greater opportunity for businesses to switch from road freight to more sustainable rail freight. I am certain that upon reopening of the line, working with our colleagues at the Shannon Foynes Port Company we will deliver a reliable, frequent and most importantly sustainable logistics option for many companies that currently and in the future will use the port of Foynes," said Jim Meade.

 

[Barl]

Very interesting to see a line reopening these days, rather than turned into a Greenway! I was actually only working adjacent to the line last week around Dooradoyle for a separate project.

It's a pity there was never a branch to Ted Russell dock given that SFPC operate this and Foynes Port.

Is there any mention of what will happen to the Mungret (Irish Cement) branch? I take it that's being left as is.

 

 

[murphaph]

It's insane that bulk cement goes entirely by road in Ireland. It's the thing that makes most sense to transport by rail, right into the cities where most of it is consumed.

[Kevin Sweeney]

23 minutes ago, murphaph said:

It's insane that bulk cement goes entirely by road in Ireland. It's the thing that makes most sense to transport by rail, right into the cities where most of it is consumed.

I have a good friend a retired civil engineer, he tells me a fully loaded articulated truck will cause the same damage to a road as approximately 30,000 cars. If the road haulage industry had to pay for that wear and tear themselves, the economics of rail freight would look much more attractive.

[Barl]

54 minutes ago, murphaph said:

It's insane that bulk cement goes entirely by road in Ireland. It's the thing that makes most sense to transport by rail, right into the cities where most of it is consumed.

It's not only the finished product that could go by rail. Some of the raw materials used are imported into Limerick Port and transported by road to Mungret - which is located beside the Shannon! 

Irish Cement are also looking to replace fossil fuels used in their kiln with residual recovered waste, this would seem like a good opportunity to utilise rail in and out of the plant again.

[murphaph]

2 minutes ago, Barl said:

It's not only the finished product that could go by rail. Some of the raw materials used are imported into Limerick Port and transported by road to Mungret - which is located beside the Shannon! 

Irish Cement are also looking to replace fossil fuels used in their kiln with residual recovered waste, this would seem like a good opportunity to utilise rail in and out of the plant again.

Definitely, sure Mungret used to be fed Gypsum from Kingscourt by rail too. It's not like there isn't a precedent. Aggregates trains to concrete plants with only the end product (concrete) going by road is a common way of doing things around Berlin anyway.

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Barl said:

Very interesting to see a line reopening these days, rather than turned into a Greenway! I was actually only working adjacent to the line last week around Dooradoyle for a separate project.

It's a pity there was never a branch to Ted Russell dock given that SFPC operate this and Foynes Port.

Is there any mention of what will happen to the Mungret (Irish Cement) branch? I take it that's being left as is.

 

 

There was talk of making it into - yeah, you've guessed - a greenway............

[Kevin Sweeney]

15 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

There was talk of making it into - yeah, you've guessed - a greenway............

As a non-car owning cycle commuter and a regular cycle tourist, I see the value of greenways. But I don't understand why they will not CPO farmland and build them that way. If my sums are right one hectare of farmland will give you 2.5 km of greenway. One hundred km of greenway would require 25 hectares of land, the equivalent of a modern small farm. By all means use abandoned branch and narrow-gauge lines for greenways but building them on abandoned mainlines is nuts.

There are plans to build a greenway on the old GNR line from Cavan to Clones. If any part of this island needs its railways restored, it is the border region. The five border counties of Cavan, Monaghan, Fermanagh, Tyrone and Donegal don't have a single railway station. This area is half the size of the Scottish Highlands, has twice the population and no railways, the highlands have a good network. Throw in Armagh with one station, Derry with two, Meath with a few stations on its southern and eastern fringe, and Leitrim with two stations on its southern fringe and you have a vast tract of territory devoid of railways. Nowhere else in western Europe is so totally devoid of rail services. A disgraceful indictment of successive governments in both parts of this island.

When Tod Andrews took away our railways, he promised us "efficient bus services", instead we got Bus Eireann. I can't speak for the rest of Ireland but BE services in Cavan are shambolic, far worse now than they were 40 years ago.

[Westcorkrailway]

 

32 minutes ago, Kevin Sweeney said:

When Tod Andrews took away our railways, he promised us "efficient bus services", instead we got Bus Eireann. I can't speak for the rest of Ireland but BE services in Cavan are shambolic, far worse now than they were 40 years ago.

 

the reason that CPO’s are a little harder to justify is the IFA and the split of land. It’s been 60 years since the closure of most railways and since then the land had been chopped and changed constantly and as a result, If the line were to follow its old direct route it would be chopped into 2 big seperate peices which can be very inconvinient….I’ve seen it with the macroom bypass and it’s the reason my father rejects the west cork lines re-opening as a greenway or railway. They will ruin a fairly straight forward farm where the price given with a CPO can’t really justify the overpass/underpass with all the extra work involved. Also it may de-values the price of the land itself 

ok so I’ve edited in this to explain my point 

Red is the farm house/yard

green is the land owned 

blue is the railway/greenway to by purchased by CPO

now this guy has had his land split into two. Most of his farm is now not directly connected with his farm yard making movements very difficult 

Whereas for this guy, the old line would be so out of the way that moving a greenway in would reduce land size but hardly effect logistics

 

Currently off all the bus routes to west cork. The 237 and 226 are double  coaches decker. And most single deck coaches are fairly full. Currently a private company west cork connect also run a good few bus at cheaper prices 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Westcorkrailway

[minister_for_hardship]

I already see the whinging about the costs already on the Book of Faces comments section.

No-one seems give out about how much it costs to build a road (or Greenway!)  in this country. 

[skinner75]

In the case of the two farms above - the question is - was the land bought from the railway after closure? If not, surely then it is a case of tough titty pal - follow the former railway alignment, as the farmer doesn't own that land

[Kevin Sweeney]

43 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 

now this guy has had his land split into two. Most of his farm is now not directly connected with his farm yard making movements very difficult 

Whereas for this guy, the old line would be so out of the way that moving a greenway in would reduce land size but hardly effect logistics

 

Currently off all the bus routes to west cork. The 237 and 226 are double  coaches decker. And most single deck coaches are fairly full. Currently a private company west cork connect also run a good few bus at cheaper prices 

The Dutch solve this problem with underpasses, so farms are not divided. The problem was solved on the Great Western Greenway in Mayo with 2 gates and holding pens facing each other. I see several similar farm crossings on the Sligo Dublin rail line. I understand the view of farmers, I'm a rural resident and a former dairy stockman. I understand their views I just think they are irrational, as the problem is easily solved. A greenway is a country lane, 4 meters wide, carrying slow moving cyclists and pedestrians. It is less of a problem than having a farm divided by a quiet country road, which is quite common.

I remember the ferocious resistance in Galway some years back to the proposed Athlone Galway greenway, yet two motorways have been built in the county without any resistance whatsoever by the farming community. The problems big road projects cause to farmers are far greater than greenways, yet the minor problem caused a storm, but the bigger problem caused hardly a ripple.

Ultimately, I think the problem is we are a car centric society. People accept the massive disruption caused by road building projects because they are car users themselves, but object to public transport and cycling project because they don't used these modes of transport. 

[jhb171achill]

21 minutes ago, skinner75 said:

In the case of the two farms above - the question is - was the land bought from the railway after closure? If not, surely then it is a case of tough titty pal - follow the former railway alignment, as the farmer doesn't own that land

Very true indeed. There's far too much gombeenism in this type of thing. If a farmer legally purchases a former railway, fine; the government has to buy it back, with or without a CPO, as a national interest must ALWAYS trump that of a solitary landowner, anywhere. But if he illegally occupies a railway, no negotiation - just drive the train through his cow shed and house extension and put the railway back. Better still, put the railway back before driving the train through.

Edited November 16, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Broithe]

1 hour ago, Kevin Sweeney said:

The Dutch solve this problem with underpasses, so farms are not divided. The problem was solved on the Great Western Greenway in Mayo with 2 gates and holding pens facing each other. I see several similar farm crossings on the Sligo Dublin rail line. I understand the view of farmers, I'm a rural resident and a former dairy stockman. I understand their views I just think they are irrational, as the problem is easily solved. A greenway is a country lane, 4 meters wide, carrying slow moving cyclists and pedestrians. It is less of a problem than having a farm divided by a quiet country road, which is quite common.

I remember the ferocious resistance in Galway some years back to the proposed Athlone Galway greenway, yet two motorways have been built in the county without any resistance whatsoever by the farming community. The problems big road projects cause to farmers are far greater than greenways, yet the minor problem caused a storm, but the bigger problem caused hardly a ripple.

Ultimately, I think the problem is we are a car centric society. People accept the massive disruption caused by road building projects because they are car users themselves, but object to public transport and cycling project because they don't used these modes of transport. 

I accidentally found this tunnel in the UK, where the A51 was straightened in the 1960s, cutting the yard off from most of the adjacent land. The viewpoint is from the resulting 'loop' of the old road.

The 'new' road runs across the top, left to right (and vice versa).

It's only visible from a very small area and few people will have spotted it - I've gone past many times and only know it's there because, to settle a pointless debate, I googled how many branches of Subway were in the vicinity. That location seemed very unlikely, until I investigated.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.8698612,-2.0918099,3a,90y,77.04h,84.52t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1soVY3Z_7mmFI3E3myGj6_tQ!2e0!5s20110701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

It would certainly be a struggle to operate there today by crossing the main road all the time.

There are farm tunnels under the R433, either side of Rathdowney, these days.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Broithe
Spelling, inevitably...

[Mike 84C]

Barl, you say Irish Cement are looking to burn residual recovered waste, what is that product? Not something I ever hauled to our local cement works!

[murphaph]

In some places they do compulsory land swaps so that farms are for the most part on one side or the other of the new road, railway etc. 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

In some places they do compulsory land swaps so that farms are for the most part on one side or the other of the new road, railway etc. 

Good thinking, and a logical answer; but try running that past rural Ireland! You'll encounter a cabal of Abominable No Men, the likes of which Arleeen, Wee Sommy, Wee Doddsy and Sir Sanctimonious LondonJeffrey could never even dream of!

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by jhb171achill