NEW 00 WORKS J15

[Ironroad]

9 hours ago, BosKonay said:

I agree all should be encouraged but it’s also not sensible to assume that a RTR manufacturer won’t get to a prototype that runs with the RPSI in time. I can promise several things next year, including steam, but the j15 will not be coming from IRM in the next 24 months. 
Hope that clarifies what I mean by ‘never say never’. 

Thank you for that clarification. The reality is that the "Possibility" of a J15 from IRM is a very long way off and in truth some of us won't live that long and I  have a problem with teasers that might be interpreted otherwise to the potential detriment of offerings from other sources   Maybe you can explain this to Fran who seems to be confused.

[Noel]

On 5/12/2022 at 4:45 PM, popeye said:

00 Works to produce more new J15 loco's with the z type boiler and high tenders.

Available in grey or black £315.00 +p&p. They are due in mid 2023.

Wish they'd do the lined green livery of RPSI 184 or even the green livery of 186. They also need to be DCC ready and sound ready, lights etc for the price. Love mine but they lack that special extra something that IRM would no doubtably deliver.

[leslie10646]

A Compound for me, please!

The "Q" would be good, of course, but with the painting capability of the Chinese producers a Q Class (BLACK remember!) would waste an opportunity to do a mass-produced lined loco in BLUE.  Especially having seen the LNWR-liveried "Hornby "Precedent" -  described by one Master Modeller as "Ian Rathbone standard".

Of course, with No.171 celebrating her 110th birthday, that may prove too much to ignore? AND you could do several different names / numbers .........

I hope that I'm around to see it!

[Niles]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:56 AM, Galteemore said:

Just remember Patrick, steam is a fairly broad genre…..it might not be blue or green ….

A real life kitbash.

[WRENNEIRE]

At the recent MRSI 3 Day show in Raheny I ran my 2 J15's on out "Castletown" layout
When I bought them I ran both in for around 30 mins in each direction 
I had them professionally chipped and they were put away for the show
Ran them both on the Saturday, one in each direction for 20 - 30 mins, then rested while I ran a 121 and did some shunting
On the Sunday at about 2 PM the Black J15 stopped suddenly and gave up the ghost, about an hour later the Grey followed suit
The instructions stated that DCCing the locos would nullify the warranty so I have given them to a fellow member of the club who 
has previous convictions for fixing stuff!
I have been offered any spare parts by Roderick so all is not lost yet
One thing he said though that I should mention is that the locos are not suitable for very long running
His gearbox has mostly metal parts and needs to be rested between runnings
 

[connollystn]

So Wrenneire! What you're say is that you paid a lot of money for two ornaments?

[murphaph]

2 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

At the recent MRSI 3 Day show in Raheny I ran my 2 J15's on out "Castletown" layout
When I bought them I ran both in for around 30 mins in each direction 
I had them professionally chipped and they were put away for the show
Ran them both on the Saturday, one in each direction for 20 - 30 mins, then rested while I ran a 121 and did some shunting
On the Sunday at about 2 PM the Black J15 stopped suddenly and gave up the ghost, about an hour later the Grey followed suit
The instructions stated that DCCing the locos would nullify the warranty so I have given them to a fellow member of the club who 
has previous convictions for fixing stuff!
I have been offered any spare parts by Roderick so all is not lost yet
One thing he said though that I should mention is that the locos are not suitable for very long running
His gearbox has mostly metal parts and needs to be rested between runnings
 

I'm out, as they say. The gearbox in a model locomotive should last more than 30 minutes of continuous running, no excuses. Sure that's the recommended running in time for most manufacturers!

[Mayner]

7 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

At the recent MRSI 3 Day show in Raheny I ran my 2 J15's on out "Castletown" layout
When I bought them I ran both in for around 30 mins in each direction 
I had them professionally chipped and they were put away for the show
Ran them both on the Saturday, one in each direction for 20 - 30 mins, then rested while I ran a 121 and did some shunting
On the Sunday at about 2 PM the Black J15 stopped suddenly and gave up the ghost, about an hour later the Grey followed suit
The instructions stated that DCCing the locos would nullify the warranty so I have given them to a fellow member of the club who 
has previous convictions for fixing stuff!
I have been offered any spare parts by Roderick so all is not lost yet
One thing he said though that I should mention is that the locos are not suitable for very long running
His gearbox has mostly metal parts and needs to be rested between runnings
 

Personally I have giving up on converting small kit or batch built locos with high quality motors (Mashima or Coreless) and reduction gearing to DCC and intend to continue running my steam outline locos on straight DC.

Apart of the physical challenges of wiring a small loco 2-4-0, 4-4-0 or 0-6-0 for DCC and finding a space for a decoder, finding a decoder suitable for the motors and drive systems used in these locos can be challenging.

I converted a pair of  OOn3 Tralee & Dingle 2-6-0T to DCC using Digitrax decoders several years ago, but had to re-convert the locos to DC because the decoders had insufficient capatiance to operate reliably at slow speed and there was no space to fit a 'stay alive" capacitor in the loco, more recently I have had problems with "plug & play" decoders blowing up while in programming mode with these types of motor although the motors were well within the decoders current ratings.

I am happy enough to continue with DC my kit built locos with Mashima can motors and metal gears some assembled over 20 years ago start and run reliably while some of my DCC fitted rtr diesels are non-runners as a result of component failure. Like many electronic components decoders and circuit boards have a finite life, during the 2000s it was estimated that a high proportion of decoders would fail within 10 years. 

A high value low volume manufacturer such as OO works is unlikely to have the capability and resources to produce locos in DCC ready or fitted format compared to a high volume rtr manufacturer ----------OO Works---sal3es approx: 100 of type of Irish loco produced Vs ------------2500-10,000---------Chinese mass produced loco

 

[jhb171achill]

I think 00 Works are using a new type of motor this time....?

[DiveController]

On 6/12/2022 at 11:01 AM, Noel said:

Wish they'd do the lined green livery of RPSI 184 or even the green livery of 186. They also need to be DCC ready and sound ready, lights etc for the price. Love mine but they lack that special extra something that IRM would no doubtably deliver.

Personally, I am gutted that they will not be producing it in the livery of the Great Train Robbery

(y'know, an Irish model masquerading as an British rather than the traditional order)

10 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

One thing he said though that I should mention is that the locos are not suitable for very long running
His gearbox has mostly metal parts and needs to be rested between runnings
 

I wonder if the chips were not all that comfortable in the metal fryer?

[DiveController]

3 hours ago, Mayner said:

Like many electronic components decoders and circuit boards have a finite life, during the 2000s it was estimated that a high proportion of decoders would fail within 10 years

I wonder how the newer components like Loksound V5 will fare?

The newer IRM offerings have integrated sound that cannot be retrofitted according to Fran or at least the components will not be available to fit to the models e.g. the ICRs

I presume we will be looking to people like legomanbiffo for a physically compatible LokSound V8.5 if indeed that vendor is still on the go at that time? 

Edited December 8, 2022 by DiveController

[DiveController]

On 5/12/2022 at 4:48 PM, leslie10646 said:

Lance King's photo of 193 on the 1962 St Pat's Day tour to Youghal shows an example of a black smokebox  Copyright IRRS

 

On 5/12/2022 at 8:37 PM, Mayner said:

In a "Decade of Steam" on CIE in the 1950s Drew Donaldson, Jack O'Neill and Bill McDonnell RPSI 1974 the authors wrote about Cork (Shed) painting a number of steam locos during the late 50s/early 60s in Grey with black smokeboxes including a no of J15s and an ex MGWR Standard Goods. I have mislaid the page with the numbers many moons ago.

Never fear, John. Drew Donaldson writes that from his personal recollection Cork Shed turned out B4 464, J18 593 and J15 193 with black smoke boxes as evidenced from leslie's IRRS photo above.

Edited December 8, 2022 by DiveController

[Galteemore]

The OO works locos are basically like a classic car - lovely to look at, can trundle around nicely, but don’t expect them to cope with the rigours of daily commuting. They are built with 50s-60s technology and are, as one said above, essentially a ready made white metal kit. In this case, the grunt work of sustained exhibition running (in conditions which are, it is easy to forget, environmentally challenging - wheel and track cleanliness alone take a hammering from the atmospheric impact of many humans in a room) is clearly too much. I suspect that running the odd branch line style train with a few restful station stops would be much more their bag. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Galteemore

[Mayner]

4 hours ago, Galteemore said:

The OO works locos are basically like a classic car - lovely to look at, can trundle around nicely, but don’t expect them to cope with the rigours of daily commuting. They are built with 50s-60s technology and are, as one said above, essentially a ready made white metal kit. In this case, the grunt work of sustained exhibition running (in conditions which are, it is easy to forget, environmentally challenging - wheel and track cleanliness alone take a hammering from the atmospheric impact of many humans in a room) is clearly too much. I suspect that running the odd branch line style train with a few restful station stops would be much more their bag. 

The small scale chassis technology particularly in terms of the adaptation of high quality motors and gearboxes with two stage gearing has developed considerably since the 50s and 60s. 

OO Works, or similar kit built locos with an all metal chassis gearing and high quality can motors are likely to be more durable in the long term than many mass produced steam out line locos, the downside is the chassis may take longer to run-in because there is likely to be less slop (built in wear) in the running gear, the plus side is the chassis may not wear out as quickly as a loco with a lot of inbuilt slop

The combination of a brass or nickel chassis with Markits metal centered wheels running in brass bearings with an all metal or nylon gear train driven by a coreless or high quality can motor, with all metal motion and valve gear (properly assembled) should be virtually bomb proof one run in.

Ironically for a long time kit built chassis were considered more reliable and durable than rtr and kit built steam outline locos often used on large UK exhibition layouts such as High Dyke or Stoke Summit because of more reliable running and superior pulling power of a loco with a whitemetal body to haul a long passenger or freight train.

Comet ran a very successful business for many years suppling replacement chassis for Airfix, Hornby and Mainline steam outline locos manufactured during the 7os and 80s. Their exhibition display featured a large number of steam outline locos running continuously on Comet chassis (usually with outside valve gear) from exhibition opening time to closing

There are well documented problems with zinc rot with Hornby and Heljan chassis, gear splitting and failure with Hornby and Bachmann locos, there were problems with the  Bachmann A1 4-6-2

I had to replace the gearbox, leading truck and carry out major chassis repairs on a 10 year old Bachmann Large Scale (1:20.3) 2-8-2.

[Galteemore]

Thanks John. Comments based on Roderick’s remarks as much as anything else! 

You are of course quite correct - people like Guy Williams and Mike Sharman produced some incredible machines. Some of my 7mm friends are now adapting technology to turn out their own home brew gear boxes with plastic gears which run countless garden laps with ease driving heavy engines.

Having left RTR behind, I am still finding my way with hornblocks and pickups etc to produce reliable running on hand built track. My own brass/nickel engines with metal gears do need a bit more TLC and fettling to make them perform optimally -  and are noisier -  than plastic 7mm RTR - but I suspect I know which will be around longer….

Edited December 8, 2022 by Galteemore

[Mike 84C]

My J15 is so far fine, runs well but my Bandon tank from 00 works stripped the axle gear after about an hours running on our club test track. Roderick supplied a new one free of charge which I fitted. Problem solved! And very good service, should I have had to do rectification? my choice but?????

[GSR 800]

41 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

My J15 is so far fine, runs well but my Bandon tank from 00 works stripped the axle gear after about an hours running on our club test track. Roderick supplied a new one free of charge which I fitted. Problem solved! And very good service, should I have had to do rectification? my choice but?????

Other way around?

[Westcorkrailway]

22 minutes ago, GSR 800 said:

Other way around?

I believe he means the CBSC tank engine 00 works produced. Mine has that issue….they fixed it free of charge but mine still seems to be slowly wearing away 

[GSR 800]

2 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I believe he means the CBSC tank engine 00 works produced. Mine has that issue….they fixed it free of charge but mine still seems to be slowly wearing away 

Ah, I thought he was referring to the SSM bandon tank and I was getting mighty confused!

Shame about the gear, fiddly carry on changing them out too.

 

For me I've decided I'll wait and see what IRM is producing next year before deciding whether or not to buy the J15.

Edited December 8, 2022 by GSR 800

[minister_for_hardship]

Had a similar issue (slipping axle gear) replaced FOC.

Might be a bit light-duty for such a weighty loco?

[Ironroad]

9 hours ago, Galteemore said:

The OO works locos are basically like a classic car - lovely to look at, can trundle around nicely, but don’t expect them to cope with the rigours of daily commuting. They are built with 50s-60s technology 

I don't think that is a very fair comment. There wasn't a lot wrong with 50's - 60's technology other than the motor sizes.  (OO Works use modern compact motors). I have three Hornby Dublo Locos that are over 60 years old that still run perfectly , one actually dates from the 50's and is a three to two rail convert. Those were the days.

[Galteemore]

11 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

I don't think that is a very fair comment. There wasn't a lot wrong with 50's - 60's technology other than the motor sizes.  (OO Works use modern compact motors). I have three Hornby Dublo Locos that are over 60 years old that still run perfectly , one actually dates from the 50's and is a three to two rail convert. Those were the days.

Sorry - don’t get me wrong - I really like 50s and 60s technology! I am huge fan of Dublo myself.  I just think it’s a false comparison to set a 00 works loco alongside modern plastic models. They are very different beasts! My own models are very much old school…..

Edited December 8, 2022 by Galteemore

[Mike 84C]

My 00 Works Bandon Tank turned the pinion gear on the axle to lots of filings and the worm would not then engage. I have put more packing washers between the wheel and frame and between the gear and frame to reduce the side to side play which is now less than a piece of writing paper. Thinner washers in the middle axle has increased the side to side play so curves are no problem! I realise the gears are straight cut but my aim with the extra packing washers is to keep the worm as close to the centre of the pinion during rotation. We shall see what happens! Maybe a High Level gearbox?

My SSM kit built B4 Bandon Tank runs amazingly well and I am truly proud of it.

[Westcorkrailway]

30 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

My SSM kit built B4 Bandon Tank runs amazingly well and I am truly proud of it.

One day I’ll be hoping to get one half as good as yours! 
 

at the moment somone else has my bandon shell. Hoping to get it back at some point soon as ive not had it for a year. 

[jhb171achill]

16 hours ago, DiveController said:

 

Never fear, John. Drew Donaldson writes that from his personal recollection Cork Shed turned out B4 464, J18 593 and J15 193 with black smoke boxes as evidenced from leslie's IRRS photo above.

Indeed; those three only. (I forgot about the B4). They were repainted literally within momnths of withdrawal, so that pins them down to mid 62 to early 63. All others were either all grey or all black. In terms of "snails", some tenders hyad them, some hadn't laterally (maybe the transfers had worn off). The single J15 (193) and the single J18 did not have snails on their tenders which were plain grey. Cab roofs always grey on grey locos, black on black locos.

[Westcorkrailway]

29 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Indeed; those three only. (I forgot about the B4). They were repainted literally within momnths of withdrawal, so that pins them down to mid 62 to early 63. All others were either all grey or all black. In terms of "snails", some tenders hyad them, some hadn't laterally (maybe the transfers had worn off). The single J15 (193) and the single J18 did not have snails on their tenders which were plain grey. Cab roofs always grey on grey locos, black on black locos.

Another livery for the list so? Didn’t think they repainted 464 after 1961

[jhb171achill]

43 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Another livery for the list so? Didn’t think they repainted 464 after 1961

Photos of 464 actually look black rather than grey. Clements had told me years ago that there was only the one J15, then the J18.  What is certain, though, is that these were late-era and very short lived exceptions to the rule. Grey with black front was not ever an actual livery as such. By 1960, the remaining locos had examples in lined green, all grey and all black - although all three were so uitterly filthy that for all anyone knew they could have been painted under it all in fluorescent pink and lime green tartan............

[Horsetan]

6 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

My 00 Works Bandon Tank turned the pinion gear on the axle to lots of filings and the worm would not then engage...

What exactly was the design flaw that led to this happening?

[Mike 84C]

Horsetan, I have no idea so I can only tell you what I saw and hope my cure to remove as much lateral play as possible works. Time will tell! and so will I if it happens again.

[Mike 84C]

Another thought, the worm on my 00 works 0-6-0t is very sharp, as in cutting, and I wonder if gentle dressing with a jewellers file to round off the top of the worm gear would help?

[Mayner]

19 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Another thought, the worm on my 00 works 0-6-0t is very sharp, as in cutting, and I wonder if gentle dressing with a jewellers file to round off the top of the worm gear would help?

Best avoid taking a file to the worm. Wear/damage to the worm wheel/pinion usually occurs when the mesh between the worm and worm wheel is too shallow, motor overheats/burns out when its too tight.

Best option would be to contact OO Works (return for repair or replace worm and worm gear) as the "Minister" and "Westcorkrailways" experienced similar problems with their Beattie/West Cork 0-6-0STs.

 

[Andy Cundick]

Sounds like not enough clearance between the worm and spur gear,the point to remember is that if the gear is secured using a grub screw the gear  the gear will run slightly out of true . just increase clearance between  motor and spur gearAndy.

[leslie10646]

I will admit to being concerned about Dave's misfortunes with his J15s, so as I had the late Anthony's last rake of cattle wagons to show off, I thought I'd give them an outing with my No.131. Now she "doesn't get out much", which may explain her relative health. Here she is passing through Richhill (overload cattle special from  Cavan?). You must forgive the quarter- complete attempt at scenery, especially the lack of ballast, the orchard which has yet to be embedded and the missing level crossing gate!

I'll add another video in a separate post - my system  crashes on me when I try and second video!

 

[leslie10646]

The goods shed DOES have a roof, but I tend to leave it off as Richie did a wonderful job with the interior and I like to keep an eye on my goods shed staff!

Keep watching - the alternative to the 00 Works version also got an outing

 

 

[leslie10646]

This is a SSM kit as built by an unknown builder in the North of England and bought off the original owner. She runs very well (she's running tender first because she doesn't have a tender coupling - just another of the million jobs to do!).

The observant will note a slightly longer train as she has a couple of GNR cattle wagons in the rake. Oh, and sorry for the iffy focus and work in progress look of the place - it's the best lit corner of the layout. I must string up a few miles of LED lighting!