Murphy Models 121

[WRENNEIRE]

On 6/30/2020 at 4:59 PM, Vlak said:

As we're into the last day of June is there any update on expected arrivals of the 121?

No definite dates yet, but the latest I have heard is that the Grey locos will be the first to arrive, some problem arose and now it looks like the IE's are held up and the greys will be here first, they will be shipped this month.

[Georgeconna]

Get rid of the slower sellers first I suppose.

 

[Vlak]

10 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

No definite dates yet, but the latest I have heard is that the Grey locos will be the first to arrive, some problem arose and now it looks like the IE's are held up and the greys will be here first, they will be shipped this month.

Thanks Wrenneire, appreciate the update.

[WRENNEIRE]

3 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Get rid of the slower sellers first I suppose.

 

No George, something to do with paint not taking, there are 3 different forms of plastic on the body and I think there was a reaction with one of them
(EBay looking good for you atm!!!)

[spudfan]

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 1:00 PM, WRENNEIRE said:

No George, something to do with paint not taking, there are 3 different forms of plastic on the body and I think there was a reaction with one of them
(EBay looking good for you atm!!!)

You would assume that the lads in the paint shop up in Inchicore would have that sorted by now.....

[Edo]

Morning All

As I have my mid morning coffee here in a very wet Limerick - is there any news?

Without getting into "Daddy.....are we there yet" territory - has anything left China yet?

Not that there is any great hurry here as I look at the stack of uncut plywood and softwood in the corner of the room.....

 

[WRENNEIRE]

No news Edo ( is no news good news?) 
There was an issue, not 121 related, that may put the project back by a couple of weeks but still hoping for late August, early September

[Edo]

8 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

No news Edo ( is no news good news?) 
There was an issue, not 121 related, that may put the project back by a couple of weeks but still hoping for late August, early September

Cheers

Poor PM - its been one thing after another !.......i'd say he'll be one happy man when they finally land in the retailers - only another 4-5 weeks - thats great!

[connollystn]

There has been a lot of heavy rain in China over the last two months and it has caused lots of serious flooding so I'm not surprised that there's a delay with the delivery of the 121s. At the moment I'm thinking about those poor people who've lost everything so I'm more than happy to wait another few months for their [121s] arrival.

[Noel]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:22 AM, Georgeconna said:

Get rid of the slower sellers first I suppose.

 

On the contrary  the grey 121s may prove in time to be the most desirable and most valuable for collectors. Its' how they were delivered and how many remember them. Also many of the old YouTube depict the grey livery 121s in operation. Commuters probably have an affinity for the tippex 121s.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Noel
Flipping lexdysia aagin

[Georgeconna]

I can't remember last week Noel not to mind 1960 as I was not even about

The RPSI one yeah , it will be a sough after Jobbie but there is not a whole lot to run authentic wise with the original grey ones.

 

[mphoey]

6 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

I can't remember last week Noel not to mind 1960 as I was not even about

The RPSI one yeah , it will be a sough after Jobbie but there is not a whole lot to run authentic wise with the original grey ones.

 

unless irm surprise us with some passenger and freight stock for them after all they have the early a classes as well that need something  to pull

[WRENNEIRE]

Just heard on the grapevine that the Greys will ship in Mid August, so hopefully available from early September

[connollystn]

I think the greys will sell very well. The good thing about them is that they can be operated nose leading which will add a whole new dimension to anyone's layout.

[Noel]

Worth waiting for, it’s summer and little indoor hobbies going on. I don’t recall any new Irish model from any supplier that wasn’t at least one year late. Even OO works were late with their J15s. I’ve learned to take all announcements with a crate of salt, even announcements about announcements. A model in the hand has arrived, everything else is a future possibility. No prob happy to wait and impressed to hear MM have picked up on any issues BEFORE Models despatch to customers. Really looking forward to the grey locos, and good point @connollystn about running nose first for interest. Can understand unions exploiting it as a safety issue, but steam locos ran ok cab aft with boiler bonnets for 100 years, so why there was a big song and dance about it in 1962 seems a mystery except as a bargaining chip.

[murphaph]

47 minutes ago, connollystn said:

I think the greys will sell very well. The good thing about them is that they can be operated nose leading which will add a whole new dimension to anyone's layout.

There's at least one "bonnet first" image of a 121 in tippex livery that I'm aware of so it did (very rarely) happen later in their lives. I can look for it later.

[Railer]

They regularly ran bonnet first on the Barrack Street branch up until it closed.

134 even rescued a 201 on a freight, I think it was cement. 134 hauled the train with the dead 201 bonnet first, and that was in IE livery.

[flange lubricator]

Working 121 class bonnet first did happen occasionally but there had to be a second man present  during such workings .

[murphaph]

The picture I mentioned above is in the IRR book and shows a 121 bonnet first at Clara in 1990. Looks really cool like that. 

[Georgeconna]

On 7/2/2020 at 1:00 PM, WRENNEIRE said:

No George, something to do with paint not taking, there are 3 different forms of plastic on the body and I think there was a reaction with one of them
(EBay looking good for you atm!!!)

Christ I have the Same problem.

Nothing get past you kid! Whats on Ebay?  I just did a tally 300 plastic kits so these gotta be culled now. I only have a few on the Bay. No space and no time and the old skill or perhaps it was luck is draining away from me.

Rumor has it this ship kit has landed in the ol Lades house, 140cms length. A Certain lad hits the 50 this weekend . Que hangover on Sunday!

 

 

 

[fishplate7]

8 hours ago, murphaph said:

The picture I mentioned above is in the IRR book and shows a 121 bonnet first at Clara in 1990. Looks really cool like that. 

This might be what you are looking for! This is a screengrab from the JP O'Dea collection, courtesy of the National Library of Ireland. This photo was taken at Nesbitt Junction, on the MGWR between Enfield and Hill of Down looking towards Enfield. The distant on the left is for the main approaching Enfield, the line on the rignt is the branch from Nesbitt Junction which is behind the photographer and to the right!

[DiveController]

Many pictures of the grey livery running bonnet first before the reversal but very few I would think in IR livery in 1990. I don't have the IRRS book mentioned by @murphaph but he was referring to 121 bonnet first other than parked/pilot/shunting/running around in more recent decades

[Mayner]

9 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

Working 121 class bonnet first did happen occasionally but there had to be a second man present  during such workings .

Many of the earlier American Road Switchers were set up to run long-hood or bonnet forward as it gave better collision protection to train crews, Norfolk & Western, Southern Railway later Norfolk Southern were the last of the major American railroads to hold on to this tradition.

There is a story that when originally introduced some drivers turned the B121 locos to run bonnet first.

Grills/louvers were fitted to the cab doors of the B121 Class and a requirement to run cab first was introduced following an incident involving a p.w. workers at Straffan in the early 1960s. T

The p.w. gang had placed detonators and a flagman to protect a possession while replacing a rail, apparently the loco crew may not have noticed the flagman because of poor sighting or have heard the detonators (sound insulated cab) to stop before entering the possession.

The grills/louvers disappeared from the cab doors at some stage  during the IE eras.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Mayner

[flange lubricator]

4 hours ago, Mayner said:

Many of the earlier American Road Switchers were set up to run long-hood or bonnet forward as it gave better collision protection to train crews, Norfolk & Western, Southern Railway later Norfolk Southern were the last of the major American railroads to hold on to this tradition.

There is a story that when originally introduced some drivers turned the B121 locos to run bonnet first.

Grills/louvers were fitted to the cab doors of the B121 Class and a requirement to run cab first was introduced following an incident involving a p.w. workers at Straffan in the early 1960s. T

The p.w. gang had placed detonators and a flagman to protect a possession while replacing a rail, apparently the loco crew may not have noticed the flagman because of poor sighting or have heard the detonators (sound insulated cab) to stop before entering the possession.

The grills/louvers disappeared from the cab doors at some stage  during the IE eras.

The 121 were sometimes a source of confusion for younger or more inexperienced drivers when trying to switch on the head lights the switch marked “front headlight “ refereed to the bonnet end “rear headlight “ referred to the cab end as in the US the front of the locomotive is the bonnet end . 

[murphaph]

6 hours ago, DiveController said:

Many pictures of the grey livery running bonnet first before the reversal but very few I would think in IR livery in 1990. I don't have the IRRS book mentioned by @murphaph but he was referring to 121 bonnet first other than parked/pilot/shunting/running around in more recent decades

Sorry for any confusion. I meant the Irish Railway Rambler book. The picture shows a failed 121 at Clara on the mainline in charge of a rake of mkIII suburban coaches. I haven't the book to hand right now to check the page number but it's in the chapter on 121s and the author noted the rarity of the event in the caption.

[Railer]

1 hour ago, flange lubricator said:

The 121 were sometimes a source of confusion for younger or more inexperienced drivers when trying to switch on the head lights the switch marked “front headlight “ refereed to the bonnet end “rear headlight “ referred to the cab end as in the US the front of the locomotive is the bonnet end . 

Just out of interest, did the drivers also have to put the Reverser into reverse to drive cab forward and vice versa. (select forward to drive bonnet first)?

[flange lubricator]

1 hour ago, Railer said:

Just out of interest, did the drivers also have to put the Reverser into reverse to drive cab forward and vice versa. (select forward to drive bonnet first)?

No the reverser would be in the direction of travel but the notch controller 1-8 would be pushed away from the driver unlike the other GM notch 1-8 towards the driver 

nice footage here at 22.00 mins of 121 notching up 

 

[enniscorthyman]

Back in the early 90s I happened to be stopped at Edermine Level Crossing just south of Enniscorthy.A single light engine IR 121 running bonnet first passed on the way to Enniscorthy.I thought it very strange at the time as normally the single 121s were turned at Rosslare and around this time 1992/93 the regular mk2s were hauled by single 121s.

Perhaps the loco broke down in Wexford and was returning to Dublin bonnet first all the way?I never saw anything on the IRRS journals at the time.

I had no camera either

[murphaph]

I am looking forward to having many "unusual" bonnet first workings on my layout some day! 

[DiveController]

15 hours ago, murphaph said:

Sorry for any confusion. I meant the Irish Railway Rambler book. The picture shows a failed 121 at Clara on the mainline in charge of a rake of mkIII suburban coaches. I haven't the book to hand right now to check the page number but it's in the chapter on 121s and the author noted the rarity of the event in the caption.

Oops, my mistake. I have the book so I'll actually take a gander at that

[ttc0169]

15 hours ago, murphaph said:

Sorry for any confusion. I meant the Irish Railway Rambler book. The picture shows a failed 121 at Clara on the mainline in charge of a rake of mkIII suburban coaches. I haven't the book to hand right now to check the page number but it's in the chapter on 121s and the author noted the rarity of the event in the caption.

The 121 didn't actually fail, it was the control car of the Mk 3 push pull that would have failed so the 121 would have been uncoupled from the rear and coupled to the front to haul the train to Inchicore for attention;

[DJ Dangerous]

What RTR rolling stock will suit the grey 121's?

Is it true that they survived less than a year in their grey livery?

They entered service at the start of 1961?

[flange lubricator]

5 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

What RTR rolling stock will suit the grey 121's?

Is it true that they survived less than a year in their grey livery?

They entered service at the start of 1961?

Silver , Green  and latterly black and tan coaches ran with the grey 121's  , the grey livery 121 loco's  lasted well into the 1960's I believe, CIE repainted some of them in Grey two in particular B123 and B127 received the addition of a red buffer beam . Would have been nice if one of the grey 121's by Murphy Models had have been B123 or B127 with the red buffer beam but you cant have everything .

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by flange lubricator

[DJ Dangerous]

10 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

Silver , Green  and latterly black and tan coaches ran with the grey 121's  , the grey livery 121 loco's  lasted well into the 1960's I believe, CIE repainted some of them in Grey two in particular B123 and B127 received the addition of a red buffer beam . Would have been nice if one of the grey 121's by Murphy Models had have been B123 or B127 with the red buffer beam but you cant have everything .

 

So 121 and 135 could run with single-stripe Cravens and with grey Bubbles and be prototypically acurate?

[flange lubricator]

Yes that wound not be inaccurate the cravens would have been introduced in 1963/64 and the bubbles in batches in 1964 1965 and 1967 .