Class 121

[Colin R]

Moved to new Thread

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Colin R

[DiveController]

6 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

No air transport for the foreseeable future = no job for me with probably future layoff!!  Can't win it seems.

 

I would always suggest getting an old-fashioned type, "with knobs on" - - It has one knob on - Just like Myself.... Lets hope that does not stop working....

@Georgeconna Sorry to hear all that George! Just by way of prevention, bad things coming in threes and all that, microwaves have a HIGH voltage capacitor that will need to be  discharged other than by plugging it out! Careful fixing it please, we'd almost be as shocked as you would! 

[WRENNEIRE]

Back to the 121
It appears that ECU have developed the PCB Board for the loco
They have also developed the sound chip for it and I presume the standard DC chip
There was a lot of work on the board because of the see through grill on the loco and the fact that it was to remain see through
The "chinese" board was visible through the grills apparently
So it looks like if you want sound the MM chip will be the way to go
His website will be updated towards the middle of next week hopefully

Edited March 21, 2020 by WRENNEIRE

[connollystn]

@Wrenneire. Thanks for the update. This thread had become somewhat derailed. Glad to hear about the PCB, I knew that it'd be a bit of problem trying to fit something into so little space and being able to see through the grill is what give the 121 it's character - it's what I remember most about the original prototype.

[WRENNEIRE]

Website updated with some 121 info
I understand there will be more info to follow on the sound chips shortly

http://www.murphymodels.com/

[ttc0169]

Update from Murphy Models

March 2020

 

Update for Class 121 loco

 

Whilst no delivery date has been received yet, work is proceeding apace on the loco. The rate of assembly is dependent on how fast the workforce in China returns to work and gets back up to speed.

 

The disruption to the air freight situation also has to be factored in.

 

There will be 5 liveries. CIE grey, CIE black, CIE black/tan, IR & IE. There are over 24 variables applied as appropriate to each model. To enable prototype correct lighting arrangements there are 6 switches which are easy to access. A sugar cube speaker is fitted as standard. To fit  DCC chips, access is very convenient. There will be no need to remove the body for any normal operation reason. Minimum curve radius will be 2. 

 

From the getgo, modellers made it clear that see-thru grilles were "de rigueur". We have achieved this iconic aspect with careful design and some clever engineering. There will be many small and delicate add-on parts supplied with the loco, therefore careful handling will be essential. Please ALWAYS use the internal wrap to remove AND replace the loco in its box. Damage caused as a result of rough/careless handling or body removal cannot be covered by warranty.

 

121 Loco DCC  DCC Sound Chips

 

In parallel with the production of the 121 we have commissioned DCC and DCC sound chips. As space is at a premium the PCB and DCC were custom designed in conjunction with each other. N.B. we cannot guarantee that chips other than those specifically designed by Murphy Models will operate in a satisfactory manner. 

 

The Murphy Models DCC chip will have the normally accepted functions. The DCC sound chip will come in two versions viz. EMD 8-567CR and EMD 8-654E. A sugar cube speaker is fitted as standard.

Catalogue nos. DCC MM0006. DCC sound (567) MM0066. DCC sound (654) MM0077.

 

 

Thanks for the update...

[jhb171achill]

Will you be able to buy them with the actual Murphy DCC chips already in, I wonder?

[WRENNEIRE]

No, but they will be easy to fit, small panel in the roof comes off

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Did the 121s have 645E or has that chip been designed for the 071?

[Noel]

21 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Did the 121s have 645E or has that chip been designed for the 071?

WheelTappers did a 121 sound project for me using the 645E prime mover. I understand the 121s ended up being re-engined with the same motors as the 181s.

[Noel]

"There will be 5 liveries. CIE grey, CIE black, CIE black/tan, IR & IE."

I presume that was a typo as no mention of super-train livery, and so far I had not heard of a CIE black livery on a 121. @WRENNEIRE?  

[Noel]

9 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

No, but they will be easy to fit, small panel in the roof comes off

Dave do you know if it will have any of the advanced driving features that ESU released a few years ago with their new "Full Throttle" on board software. Such as coasting, braking, throttle hold (F5), short and long distant horns, these enable much more realistic driving. Especially the coasting and throttle hold feature that allow a switch to manual control of notching, simulating heavy trains starting off, trains coasting into stations, notch up when brakes applied, etc. 

[Warbonnet]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

WheelTappers did a 121 sound project for me using the 645E prime mover. I understand the 121s ended up being re-engined with the same motors as the 181s.

The 121s were originally built with EMD 567 engines. After the C's were scrapped a number of 121s (not sure if all did) received the 645 roots blown engine from the rebuilt Cs. These engines were more powerful like the 181s compared to the 141s, and were installed to help 121s cope with the Mark III push pulls etc. The roots blown 645 sounds different to a 645 in an 071, mainly as the 071 is turbo charged and has more cylinders. 

Hope this is of help Dr Gerbil-Fritters

Cheers!

Fran

[Noel]

19 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

The 121s were originally built with EMD 567 engines. After the C's were scrapped a number of 121s (not sure if all did) received the 645 roots blown engine from the rebuilt Cs. These engines were more powerful like the 181s compared to the 141s, and were installed to help 121s cope with the Mark III push pulls etc. The roots blown 645 sounds different to a 645 in an 071, mainly as the 071 is turbo charged and has more cylinders. 

Hope this is of help Dr Gerbil-Fritters

Cheers!

Fran

Yes that concurs Thanks

[WRENNEIRE]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

"There will be 5 liveries. CIE grey, CIE black, CIE black/tan, IR & IE."

I presume that was a typo as no mention of super-train livery, and so far I had not heard of a CIE black livery on a 121. @WRENNEIRE?  

Black & Tan is Supertrain man
Black livery:

 

 

Maybe spend a hour or two on Google before posting
And the name is Bracken, not Murphy!

[Noel]

3 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Black & Tan is Supertrain man
Black livery:

 

 

Maybe spend a hour or two on Google before posting
And the name is Bracken, not Murphy!

Who mentioned Murphy?  The B&W pic you posted was of an early 1960s GM 121 in the classic CIE "Black'n'tan" livery. Admittedly the tan was only on the solebar and front of cab. Supertrain livery was all over orange with a black band, which eventually morphed into IR and then IE liveries with the white tippex stripes added to what had been a Supertrain livery. CIE black livery was only used on a small number of early Sulzers, C class and A class often with the yellow panel on the cab front. @jhb171achill has posted many fine pieces on livery history. 

 

 

 

 

Comprendee kind sir?

PS: Dave @WRENNEIRE

Just for added clarity here is a Black'n'Tan livery 121 like the one in the B&W Photo you posted.

[Edo]

Eh .....In fairness to Noel - the 121 in your picture would generally be considered Black and Tan.....with SuperTrain in the first coat of 70s Orange and black strip in the middle.....?

A touch Pedantic at the mo I know ...but handbags have been drawn for far less here!!

Noel - there will be SuperTrain and Black and Tan.......whatever they are called on the packaging

Edited March 27, 2020 by Edo

[WRENNEIRE]

Clear as mud

Do not mix IRM and Murphy up

 

[Irishswissernie]

Super Train above

Black per Murphy or Black and Tan per CIE

Edited March 27, 2020 by Irishswissernie
boredom nowt on TV and waiting for paint to dry on layout!"

[Noel]

24 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Clear as mud

Do not mix IRM and Murphy up

 

 I refer the matter to senior council the oracle on such matters @jhb171achill. Labels on boxes don't necessarily reflect what the prototype liveries were. This is a source of perennial confusion for some modellers. Speaking with PM personally he himself uses the terms "Supertrain livery" and "Black'n'Tan". In the wider context of CV19 going on outside in the real world, lets just call them coloured locos. 

[WRENNEIRE]

Nothing to do with JHB
Just man up and apologise
CIE Black is what Murphy calls it
His model, he can call it what he wants, its not CIE its Murphy Models
No mention of Supertrain on 142 either
Fran, can you close this thread please, enough crap for one day?

[Noel]

1 hour ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Nothing to do with JHB
Just man up and apologise
CIE Black is what Murphy calls it
His model, he can call it what he wants, its not CIE its Murphy Models
No mention of Supertrain on 142 either
Fran, can you close this thread please, enough crap for one day?

Chill Dave. I apologise if I inadvertently caused any offence on mere discussion about liveries. I have never heard of any railway expert or rail enthusiast refer to CIE black livery, might just be me or my ignorance. I don't understand why you have taken such offence. Good evening.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Noel
typo

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

Super Train above

Black per Murphy or Black and Tan per CIE

Livery note: on both the locos (122 & 010) in the top pic, you can see how the "broken wheel" part of the CIE "roundel" could get faded to a nondescript tannish colour, from the original "proper" tan as seen on B121.

These, like the "flying snails" before them, were not painted on, thus liable in theory at least to different shades of paint, they were all the same transfers. I suspect that brushing or power washing accelerated their fading more so than the tan/orange paint round them. They were the same as on the Dublin buses at the start of the "desert sand" era (though the buses alone got some with red, white or navy blue "broken wheels" before being repainted in "DART" green.

[K801]

On 1/12/2020 at 6:00 PM, RobertRoche said:

 

 

 

 

Beautiful, front looks fraction to tall? Would like to see cab to cab with a 141 model

[jhb171achill]

10 minutes ago, K801 said:

Beautiful, front looks fraction to tall? Would like to see cab to cab with a 141 model

I think its the angle of the photo. However, in real life, the cabs of the 121s were actually notably higher than the 141 / 181 classes.

[Irishswissernie]

Some 141/121  ends for comparison. Sods Law says I can't find a direct side on shot for comparison but the model looks fine EDITED Sods Law also states that you will find a side on shot just after you have posted!

.

I will add this one also as it is roughly the same aspect as the model photo and conveys the same impression re the heights.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[jhb171achill]

That last one shows it up perfectly, Ernie!

The last time I ever saw a 121 in traffic was during the last beet season some years ago. I knew from the distance as a 141 was leading, but I could see the tall cab behind on the second loco, which was 134! A very pleasant surprise that day, as I had been expecting a 071 or a pair of 141s.

I think she and 124, the last of these beasts, did little regular work after that and were withdrawn a short time later.

[irishthump]

7 hours ago, Noel said:

Dave do you know if it will have any of the advanced driving features that ESU released a few years ago with their new "Full Throttle" on board software. Such as coasting, braking, throttle hold (F5), short and long distant horns, these enable much more realistic driving. Especially the coasting and throttle hold feature that allow a switch to manual control of notching, simulating heavy trains starting off, trains coasting into stations, notch up when brakes applied, etc. 

I’m hoping PM will go back to ESU for these decoders as he did with the 071 and 201. ESU make the Loksound Micro which is a smaller  decoder  designed for N scale, but I’m not sure If it comes in 21 pin configuration which the 121 will need.

[WRENNEIRE]

If I remember correctly both the board and the chip will be made by ESU

[enniscorthyman]

On mentioning that the 121s stand taller than the 141s,I remember somewhere being mentioned  that the 071 class stand slightly  taller than the 141/181 class as well.

[ttc0169]

1 hour ago, enniscorthyman said:

On mentioning that the 121s stand taller than the 141s,I remember somewhere being mentioned  that the 071 class stand slightly  taller than the 141/181 class as well.

That is correct 

[DiveController]

On 3/27/2020 at 9:07 AM, WRENNEIRE said:

Nothing to do with JHB
Just man up and apologise
CIE Black is what Murphy calls it
His model, he can call it what he wants, its not CIE its Murphy Models
No mention of Supertrain on 142 either
Fran, can you close this thread please, enough crap for one day?

The manufacturer can label it what he wants but if so much effort that been taken to model a prototype I do not understand why it would not be labelled using the terms that have been in common usage for decades. There was a black livery for certain locos that probably served to evolve into the BnT livery and maybe subsequently the ST and newer liveries but the 121 never had a black livery in the sense that the As, Bs  etc. had.

5 hours ago, enniscorthyman said:

On mentioning that the 121s stand taller than the 141s,I remember somewhere being mentioned  that the 071 class stand slightly  taller than the 141/181 class as well.

the difference between the 071 and 141 would not be as marked as the difference in heights between the heights of the cabs of the 121 and 141 when running in multiple together

[RedRich]

6 hours ago, enniscorthyman said:

On mentioning that the 121s stand taller than the 141s,I remember somewhere being mentioned  that the 071 class stand slightly  taller than the 141/181 class as well.

I believe that was ourselves Eamonn. It is inches. It stands out when you see them side by side when looking at where the red is painted around the buffers on both classes.

Rich,

[irishthump]

On 3/28/2020 at 12:38 AM, WRENNEIRE said:

If I remember correctly both the board and the chip will be made by ESU

Ok that makes more sense. ESU make the Loksound Direct (mainly for the US market) which is a board with an integrated decoder. It’s designed as a drop in replacement on HO locos where space is limited. Perhaps this is the solution for the shortage of space inside the 121....

Edited April 7, 2020 by irishthump

[NIRCLASS80]

The Murphy 121’s have got a 21pin arrangement and the standard Loksound V5 chip will fit.

Paddy showed me this at Warley and Explained the fact that the internal circuit board had to be redesigned to accommodate this.  
The original board design was scrapped after the model was assembled it was found the chip wouldn’t fit within the body!

This was one of the factors that has delayed the model. Paddy was very willing to share the challenges of getting the 121’s right and I enjoyed our 5 minute chat that lasted an hour!