Class 121

[Glover]

I've just found a reference to AEC railcars having tablet snatchers...........yea, can't sleep!

Its in the November 1969 edition of the Irish Railfans News (really serious sleep problem tonight....). An article describes a Sligo to Dublin journey on August 5 1969, in a 3 piece AEC railcar set. To cut a long storey short, the train failed at Ballymote and was eventually rescued by B125 which pulled the railcar train to Dublin. 

Here's the relevant bit: after stopping at Mullingar, the guard joined the driver in the cab of B125, in order to operate the tablet snatcher. I quote:" ordinarily the guard would operate the staff snatchers located in the van of one or other of the railcars, using the bell system to communicate with the driver".

This seems to support Mayners point about the system operating on the Dublin-Galway line ( issue only seems to have arisen after Mullingar) plus Mayner/Lambeg Mans' reports that the snatcher would only have been visible at the time of actual usage.

Who needs bedtime stories?

Glover

[Mayner]

The UTA used a similar apparatus to CIE to exchange tokens on the single track sections of the Larne and Derry lines.

The snatcher was mounted on a post in the doorway of the guards compartment of an MPD railcar,  when the door was open the snatcher could be rotated outwards through the doorway to make the exchange then brought inbound and the door closed.

There is a photo of the token exchange operation in "Diesel Dawn"

[jhb171achill]

A new one to me - wow! I knew about the MPD cars.... is the implication here that in an AEC car, there was some sort of thing inside the guards compartment that swung outside at the relevant moment?

I was basing my post that I’m 99% sure they didn’t have them, in reference to the idea of one externally, and thus visibly fitted.

The above would solve the mystery. Nothing external, as I thought, but an internal one to do the job.

[Lambeg man]

Ah, so if there was a bell communication between guard ("I've got the token.") to the driver, does my suggestion about the hatch in the bulkhead behind the driver, through which the guard passed the tablet, only apply to the GNR cars? There is no record of them ever having a tablet arm in the guard's compartment.

[Dhu Varren]

52 minutes ago, Lambeg man said:

Ah, so if there was a bell communication between guard ("I've got the token.") to the driver, does my suggestion about the hatch in the bulkhead behind the driver, through which the guard passed the tablet, only apply to the GNR cars? There is no record of them ever having a tablet arm in the guard's compartment.

The driver's position in most of the MPDs also contained a guards compartment which meant that the guard could hand the token directly to the driver immediately after the exchange. Presumably if a railcar without a guards compartment was leading the set, the exchange would be done in a different railcar, and the driver advised of the exchange by 'bell communication.

I once had a cab ride on an MPD from Derry to Belfast, and witnessed first hand the exchange of tokens at speed. Most of the MPDs had sliding doors to the guards/drivers compartment, which did not have to be opened for token exchange. There was a small hatch in the door through which the exchange apparatus was rotated for the exchange. The noise of the exchange was something else. It was like a gun being fired. I also witnessed a Jeep failing to pick up the token at speed, and having to do a very rapid stop for the fireman to run back to collect the token.   

The GNR did not use tablet tokens on the likes of the Derry Road, but used train staffs which were more difficult to exchange on the move and required a net type apparatus. As far as I am aware GNR railcars were not fitted with exchange apparatus, and only steam locos regularly used on the Derry Road were fitted with the nets.  

[WRENNEIRE]

So back to the 121's men

I have been asked to tell no one so I am asking you guys to do the same

121 & 135 grey livery and 124, 129, 134 in IE are due in Oct.

125 & 131 CIE Black and 126 & 132 CIE S/train should arrive in time for Christmas

With 127, 130 & 133 IR following in the New Year.

Dont think he is doing the usual 504 run of each so numbers will be tight

No price yet but not a lot of change from €200 I believe

[Robert Shrives]

Thanks , a great leak the size of a bust radiator hose !   October for the IE one and save pennies (pounds)  for the IR in 2020, say thanks to the great man for his forethought and preservance  in this locomotive and range of stock.

 

Robert 

[Edo]

10 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

So back to the 121's men

I have been asked to tell no one so I am asking you guys to do the same

121 & 135 grey livery and 124, 129, 134 in IE are due in Oct.

125 & 131 CIE Black and 126 & 132 CIE S/train should arrive in time for Christmas

With 127, 130 & 133 IR following in the New Year.

Dont think he is doing the usual 504 run of each so numbers will be tight

No price yet but not a lot of change from €200 I believe

So the advice would be to reserve asap?

[DiveController]

I'll have the Greys followed by the CIE Black livery for Christmas, please!

Not available yet? .... Just a curry chips from the Garda station, Wrenn

[jhb171achill]

I’d like to reserve 135, 131 & 125. One grey & two BnT.

[Noel]

22 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

So back to the 121's men

I have been asked to tell no one so I am asking you guys to do the same

121 & 135 grey livery and 124, 129, 134 in IE are due in Oct.

125 & 131 CIE Black and 126 & 132 CIE S/train should arrive in time for Christmas

With 127, 130 & 133 IR following in the New Year.

Dont think he is doing the usual 504 run of each so numbers will be tight

No price yet but not a lot of change from €200 I believe

Yummie. Looking forward to these. Indicative price suggestion perhaps sounds a bit high compared to the high spec and larger IRM A class loco due around the same time. It's going to be a very expensive 2019.

[Railer]

8 hours ago, Noel said:

 It's going to be a very expensive 2019.

Hopefully that will keep everything from being snapped up so fast. On the flip side one has only to look at how fast the grey 71s cleared the shops. They were made in limited numbers too and despite not being s popular livery on here they still were big hits. I suspect another run of Grey's would be they same.

[Noel]

3 hours ago, Railer said:

Hopefully that will keep everything from being snapped up so fast. On the flip side one has only to look at how fast the grey 71s cleared the shops. They were made in limited numbers too and despite not being s popular livery on here they still were big hits. I suspect another run of Grey's would be they same.

Yes agree a re-run of grey 071s would fly off the shelves duding anecdotally by the number of resprays that have appeared on the FaceBook groups and on here.

[iarnrod]

4 hours ago, Railer said:

Hopefully that will keep everything from being snapped up so fast. On the flip side one has only to look at how fast the grey 71s cleared the shops. They were made in limited numbers too and despite not being s popular livery on here they still were big hits. I suspect another run of Grey's would be they same.

A retooled 071 to reflect the new handbrake arrangement and lack of grab irons on the cabs would be very welcome too. Three possible liveries already, plus multiple versions of the grey when you consider the various cab numbering differences that currently exist, both in numeral sizing and spacing. Current model only allows you to accurately model up until the end of 2015 for the black and silver locos, as the refurbished grey 071's started appearing from April 2013. New handbrake arrangement applied to all 071's in 2016, with the first locos being fitted with the new handbrake in January of that year.

Would a retooled 071 sell? I think multiple livery and numeral options released in batches of around 250 would, but whether that is commercially viable is another question. Grey 071's currently selling for record prices on ebay, so obviously a demand for them.

Edited June 22, 2019 by iarnrod

[Wexford70]

2 hours ago, iarnrod said:

.Would a retooled 071 sell?

I think they would. So many of the IRM models were pulled by later version 071s that I think there will ne renewed interest.

I would certainly take a couple as I was one of the 'rivet counters'  that just couldn't accept the grab irons on the front on the cabs.

If Paddy ever stands back from producing models (may it be decades away!) would IRM consider taking ownership of the mouldings?

[WRENNEIRE]

4 hours ago, iarnrod said:

 

Would a retooled 071 sell? I think multiple livery and numeral options released in batches of around 250 would, but whether that is commercially viable is another question. Grey 071's currently selling for record prices on ebay, so obviously a demand for them.

Retooling is expensive, as the original moulds have to be altered which is not as easy as it sounds then add on the handbrake

I think a minimum run is in the region of 1000 units, maybe more so with 4 different running numbers, 250 of each I could see

a cost of north of €200, maybe even as high as €250

[Railer]

Could do a retool of 071 in CIE with a 40 years of 071 service pack. Likewise of 073, IR 30 year anniversary pack. Then maybe 2 others in grey. 084 seeing as it still doesn't have all it's numbers like 088. Then another say 074 or 083 perhaps for big numbered locos.

Just some blue sky thinking

Anyways back to the iconic 121s.....

[JasonB]

124 & 134 to start with methinks  

[Broithe]

3 minutes ago, JasonB said:

124 & 134 to start with methinks  

Same here - possibly worthwhile doing as a double pack..?

[JasonB]

9 hours ago, Broithe said:

Same here - possibly worthwhile doing as a double pack..?

Possibly, but I'd reckon the majority of people would prefer the option of buying individually. The cost of a double pack might put some off from buying at all. Personally I'll be taking no chances, I'll be investing in a pair and running them as a pair. 

[Broithe]

Availability of a double pack, of what are likely to be quite popular identities, need not preclude individual availability of either - as Airfix did with the Dogfight Doubles, etc.

Anyway, whatever suits the producer will suit me.

[WRENNEIRE]

Double packs not on the current agenda

[leslie10646]

On 6/22/2019 at 3:30 PM, WRENNEIRE said:

Retooling is expensive, as the original moulds have to be altered which is not as easy as it sounds then add on the handbrake

I think a minimum run is in the region of 1000 units, maybe more so with 4 different running numbers, 250 of each I could see

a cost of north of €200, maybe even as high as €250

Ahh, David - Steam Engine numbers (think about it) - makes the J15 look an absolute bargain!

[Richard EH]

Re Double packs - a powered and unpowered would work quite well - but I guess not really much change in the price, in reality!

Cheers for now!

Richard.

[Noel]

40 minutes ago, Richard EH said:

Re Double packs - a powered and unpowered would work quite well - but I guess not really much change in the price, in reality!

Cheers for now!

Richard.

Good idea, especially for the ST and IR era when they regularly ran in pairs nose2nose. I floated similar idea a few years ago but it was explained to me that there would be very little difference in construction cost of production between an unpowered 'cow' and a motorised loco chassis.

[WRENNEIRE]

Back in my Wrenn collecting days they did 2 locos in powered and unpowered versions

In both cases the unpowered one was more expensive that the powered, and it would be the same with the 121's I am sure

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Back in my Wrenn collecting days they did 2 locos in powered and unpowered versions

In both cases the unpowered one was more expensive that the powered, and it would be the same with the 121's I am sure

Any idea what the reason is for this?

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Any idea what the reason is for this?

Most likely similar labour costs to assemble a powered or un-powered loco plus disruption to the assembly line. Although low by European standards wages labour is likely to be a significant cost with assembly carried out by hand, much simpler and more productive for workers (on bonus or piecework) and management if everyone is assembling the same type of chassis during a shift.

Un-powered diesels pretty much became a thing of the past with American diesels when production shifted from the states to japan & China in the 80s & 90s

[connollystn]

With the proliferation of Digital Command Control it's no longer viable to produce dummy versions of locomotives. If someone wants a non motorised model they'll have to remove the components that drive the wheels. Couldn't ever see myself doing that as I'm sure I'd break something along the way.

[murrayec]

Lads would you stop  just buy two!  "Their going to be great"

Eoin

Edited June 25, 2019 by murrayec
There to 'Their'

[Broithe]

I want one to be barely visible in an engine shed, will it be possible to just buy the front half?

[Robert Shrives]

35 minutes ago, Broithe said:

I want one to be barely visible in an engine shed, will it be possible to just buy the front half?

Hi I recall a dodge of having a photo graph in  the shed gloom to do that . Perhaps a resin older version will do the job ? 

Robert 

[irishthump]

1 hour ago, murrayec said:

Lads would you stop  just buy two!  "There going to be great"

Eoin

In pairs is the only way to buy these things. Anybody who says different is kidding themselves!

[WRENNEIRE]

13 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Any idea what the reason is for this?

I think it has to do with a new chassis, with the motor gone it needs a bit of fettling to hold the bogies on

This would be a similar costing for a new Grey O71, just to remove the supports for the front grabrail and a new handbrake would incur some serious cost

 

[DiveController]

On 6/25/2019 at 7:34 AM, Broithe said:

I want one to be barely visible in an engine shed, will it be possible to just buy the front half?

Actually I need the bonnet end for the shed so if you need the cab that'll work out ...

On 6/25/2019 at 8:37 AM, irishthump said:

In pairs is the only way to buy these things. Anybody who says different is kidding themselves!

The grey livery frequently ran singly as did the BnT. In later years with more need for faster acceleration and train speeds or on freight they were equipped for multiple running and paired to each other or the 141s which always looked odd because of the height mismatch (love it!)...... and I'lll still be getting both of course

Edited July 5, 2019 by DiveController