Hattons launch 'Irish' range of Genesis Coaches

[BosKonay]

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/article?id=1276&utm_source=klaviyo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=modvehid5011-hattonsgenesiscieannouncement&_kx=3O4jaT9R3N9BNIeuxrX-YCy8wubMc7CP430-TeDF3sf4XC8dE6EzeqZKQl0Da0jk.JGQeXh

[Westcorkrailway]

Just got an email…..I’m flabbergasted

 

 

[Patrick Davey]

Wow!!!  Very nice!!!  Fair play those guys!!

[BosKonay]

With the first of our newly tooled Genesis coaches now with customers, we have been inundated with suggestions for other liveries to produce. There has been one standout suggestion that we have decided to append onto our Batch 2 run, the Irish Railways CIE colours.

CIE had a fleet of 6-wheel coaches inherited from many of the old companies of Ireland, with the ex-GSWR fleet being one of the most prominent. This is what we have used for inspiration for the livery application for our coaches, as the features closely resemble the prototype.

We are not just producing 1 livery however, we are covering all 3 liveries that CIE used with this type of coach:

CIE Dark Green Used until early 1960s	CIE Light Green Late 1950s - Mid 1960s	CIE Black & Tan Early 1960s (later for bogie vehicles)

 

These liveries represent the full lives of these coaches with CIE and cover an era of railways which, in the UK, had not seen a non-bogie coach for many years.

These coaches are priced the same as the rest of the range, with single coaches available at £33 and a pack of 4 (in Dark Green livery only) priced at £120.

As with our other batch 2 coaches, these will all be supplied unlit, with optional lighting packs available. All coaches will require the H4-GL-6 pack, with the Dark Green pack of 4 coaches requiring 4 of these units to function.

These coaches will be available in Late 2023/Early 2024 along with the other liveries already announced in Batch 2. Numbers will be strictly limited and with the success of Batch 1, we recommend ordering soon to avoid disappointment.

(For clarity too, Hattons are not wholesaling these, so they will NOT be for sale on irishRailwaymodels.com )

[Edo]

holy moley - just got it in my email too

2 thoughts

1) how accurate are these... in comparison to the real thing?

2) Im going to need to win the lotto

 

 

[BosKonay]

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults?search/q/CIE/brands/Hattons Originals/sub-types/4 and 6 wheel Genesis coaches/stockstatus/all

[minister_for_hardship]

Hmm buy coaches or eat less?

Tough choice.

[leslie10646]

Mr Beaumont isn't on line, otherwise we'd have got an answer on the accuracy by now! Wake up JB!

But if the dark green / Eau de Nil version is as good as Tony Mirolo's ones on "The Quiet Man" layout at Raheny, they'll more than "do".

I can see a dark green set being ordered for GAA specials arriving at Portadown (ECS from Armagh?) having come over the Cavan line ......

Edited November 14, 2022 by leslie10646

[Galteemore]

They are ‘generic’ coaches so not especially accurate to any company. However, they will make an extremely attractive consist and the quality finish will make them blend in with other Irish stock. Put it this way, they look more convincing than those old Lima Mk1s in orange and black …..

[J-Mo Arts]

Oh those dark green ones are tempting... 

[Westcorkrailway]

7 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

Mr Beaumont isn't on line, otherwise we'd have got an answer on the accuracy by now! Wake up JB!

But if the dark green / Eau de Nil version is as good as Tony Mirolo's ones on "The Quiet Man" layout at Raheny, they'll more than "do".

I have tangible evidence to say JB probably had a hand in accuracy in these coaches

7 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

They are ‘generic’ coaches so not especially accurate to any company. However, they will make an extremely attractive consist and the quality finish will make them blend in with other Irish stock. Put it this way, they look more convincing than those old Lima Mk1s in orange and black …..

First piece of period mass produced rolling stock for Silver and green A class locos since the Bachmann/MM coaches

Edited November 14, 2022 by Westcorkrailway

[meathdane]

Just got an email from Hattons! A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one

Edited November 14, 2022 by meathdane
Wondering if an administrator can delete this! Hadn't noticed the topic already up! Apologies

[Noel]

Yes great news 6 wheel coaches to go with all the OO Works and SSM's J15 locos out there. Happy Days, now the early steam era is covered and the 'Quiet Man' trains can be reenacted on layouts. Keen price too for a set of 4

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/article?id=1276&utm_source=klaviyo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=modvehid5011-hattonsgenesiscieannouncement&_kx=knwJxH1GcmmbtDjoANWwf_dp-fR1jFsmFdZ7b6nUZWc%3D.JGQeXh

[The Derry Road]

Maybe get a closer look at these at The Warley show in Birmingham 26/27 November 2022 TDR

[murphaph]

Could any of the resident experts say which of these are genuinely close to Irish prototypes? I am thinking about one or two for the display case. I assume these cannot be regauged to 21mm without major surgery.

Edited November 14, 2022 by murphaph

[Flying Snail]

Well thats interesting. Not quite the WCIR triple packs I'm hoping for, but these are tempting

Does anyone know if the carriages in the 4-pack are numbered differently to the carriages sold individually?

[BosKonay]

Some relevant stuff here

Bear in mind the Genesis range is , by definition generic (and there certainly is not 21mm provision) but they are made to an excellent standard, and it's hard to argue with the price!

[Galteemore]

The comments of Jim McGeown, who makes a similar range in 7mm, are always worth reading on this, emphasis mine: 

  Although based on prototypes the concept of these coach kits is that they are very generic and represent typical coaches that were built by all the railway companies. 

  These kits have been designed to provide the modeller with an economical coach that can be built in a reasonable weekend modeling session to a level of detail suitable for running on a layout. The modeller can then paint the coach in their chosen railways livery.

  By painting and lettering in say LNER brown livery a set of these coaches will capture the look and feel of a typical LNER rural branch line train made up of inherited pre grouping coaches.

  Your friends will probably make comments like "I see that you have modeled the coaches used on the Campbellwick Green branch in October 1936". You can then nod sagely and secretly smile to yourself knowing that the most distinguishing thing about coaches is their colour and lettering.

  Painted chocolate and cream they have the look of some of the South Wales railway companies coaches that were absorbed by the Great western and painted LMS maroon a Midland appearance and so on. The possibilities for these coaches is only limited by your imagination.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, leslie10646 said:

Mr Beaumont isn't on line, otherwise we'd have got an answer on the accuracy by now! Wake up JB!

But if the dark green / Eau de Nil version is as good as Tony Mirolo's ones on "The Quiet Man" layout at Raheny, they'll more than "do".

I can see a dark green set being ordered for GAA specials arriving at Portadown (ECS from Armagh?) having come over the Cavan line ......

You were spot on, Leslie! A combination of a dog to be walked and a grandson to be mindxed has precluded me from commenting for an hour and 19 minutes since the announcement.

OK, the background to these. The "generic" Hattons Genesis coaches are very like one of several GSWR designs of six-wheel coaches, and are thus suitable for just about anywhere on the CIE system, including even ex-MGW and DSE territory, in the 1950s and early sixties.

All passenger-carrying six-wheelers were withdrawn by summer 1963, thus not a single one ever was repainted black'n'tan. However, some half-dozen full passenger brakes did survive beyond that, and three at least were repainted in the new livery, hence the fact that Hattons only offer the full brake in BnT.

They are offering the two green liveries. The dark lined green was intropduced in 1945, while the light green appeared first on 6-wheelers in 1955/6. Between 1955 and 1963, when the last ones ran, newly-painted ones were light green, with the older livery still to be seen for several years later, like that lime green and navy livery on the modern 29s, which only finally disappeared this year. Thus, a train in the 1955-63 period could have coaches (bogie OR six-wheeler) in either green version.

Hattons have gone to painstaking lengths to identify suitable carriages, and thus accurate carriage numbers, to be as near a match as possible to these generic coaches. As I mentioned, they are closest to a GSWR design that was being turned out in the 1885-95 period. Each individual vehicle carries a number appropriate to the type, and in all cases carriage numbers are of examples of the type which survived up to or past the mid-1950s. As a result, we have a truly excellent range of ready-to-run pre-1965 stock, for the first time! The Irish modelling scene may be allowed one massive step forward with these, which are PERFECT to go behind any IRM silver or greenj "A", or "OO Works" J15, on a busy Youghal or Bray summer excursion.

For so many of us, domestic space, permission or both precludes a layout representing much more than a branch line or small terminus. Several of our worthy folks here are modelling West Cork, and in my own Dugort Harbour there's a remote branch too. These carriages are perfect for any branch line setting, as lines like Loughrea, Ballinrobe, Ballaghaderreen, Clonakilty, Baltimore, Ballina and Limerick-Sligo would have had vehicles like these, although in the latter case only until the AEC railcars (what a contrast!) came along. Once someone produces a wooden GSWR bogie, we'll have this covered entirely - as many of the above-mentioned branch trains consisted of an old bogie with one or two six-wheelers behind it.

Until 1963, Cork kept a large supply of ex-GSWR and ex-MGWR types, which were used at rush hour to Cobh, and on summer excursions to Youghal. By that last year, a black'n'tan "A" could be up front, as well as a green or once-"silver" filthy-coloured one.

If and when a ready to run "C" appears, these are precisely the sort of vehicles to go behind them.

Hattons have produced several variations - full brake, brake third, composite and third. While they are all of the generic design, a mix of these types and aliveries will give the impression of a train with no two vehicles alike, which was prototypical. In final days, these vehicles were to be found mixed with MGWR ones (an extremely different design), and were of all sorts and types. During the seventy-odd year life of these vehicles, many were altered; some ended their days as one-offs due to some obscure part-rebuild in GSR days.

Leslie mentions these yokes appearing on the GNR. Well, they did; in one of Charles Friel's books there is a picture of a SLNCR excursion arriving in Enniskillen, including some of their half-derelict stock (!), and several six-wheelers complete with "flying snails"; mind you, these are ex-MGWR, but since the Limerick-Sligo route brought as many ex-GSWR coaches into Sligo as ex-MGWR, any time the SLNCR wanted to borrow stock they could just as easily have got vehicles like these new models.

Having seen some of the Genesis stock in the various English liveries, I am highly impressed by the level of detail and as such cannot endorse them enough; I'll be raiding the piggy bank and emailing Hattons right when I'm finished typing this.

On detail, I note that Hattons have taken the trouble to get several oft-ignored details right. One is the use of eau-de-nil, in its correct shade, for lining and numerals. Both body colours of green are also spot on; I am aware that they ensured a correct colour match. On the dark green coaches, the number "3" is on the doors of thirds, but on the light greeen livery it miraculously changes to a "2". This is entirely correct, as about the time that the green livery changed, CIE re-branded third class as second. I've already mentioned appropriate carriage numbers, both for the carriage type and for the period. (Many other examples of each type had been scrapped years earlier, some long gone before CIE was even though of). Another is the "flying snail"; in the dark green livery, six-wheelers always hadone, while bogies usually had two; whereas in the light green livery few if any six-wheelers had the "snail", and bogies were about 60 / 40 split between carriages with, and without one. So the absence of the snail on the light green ones is spot on, as is the inclusion of it on all of the dark green ones.

Absolutely superb news overall - I am delighted to see these produced. I understand that they are a limited run, so I will be losing no time in ordering my own........

Edited November 14, 2022 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

49 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Could any of the resident experts say which of these are genuinely close to Irish prototypes? I am thinking about one or two for the display case. I assume these cannot be regauged to 21mm without major surgery.

Yes. They are very similar to one long-lived GSWR design, and carry numbers and liveries of exact examples which were still about post-1954 or so. A MUST-buy!

[Westcorkrailway]

5 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

The comments of Jim McGeown, who makes a similar range in 7mm, are always worth reading on this, emphasis mine: 

  Although based on prototypes the concept of these coach kits is that they are very generic and represent typical coaches that were built by all the railway companies. 

  These kits have been designed to provide the modeller with an economical coach that can be built in a reasonable weekend modeling session to a level of detail suitable for running on a layout. The modeller can then paint the coach in their chosen railways livery.

  By painting and lettering in say LNER brown livery a set of these coaches will capture the look and feel of a typical LNER rural branch line train made up of inherited pre grouping coaches.

  Your friends will probably make comments like "I see that you have modeled the coaches used on the Campbellwick Green branch in October 1936". You can then nod sagely and secretly smile to yourself knowing that the most distinguishing thing about coaches is their colour and lettering.

  Painted chocolate and cream they have the look of some of the South Wales railway companies coaches that were absorbed by the Great western and painted LMS maroon a Midland appearance and so on. The possibilities for these coaches is only limited by your imagination.

This exact sentiment I agree with. I had a discussion with somone about this at raheeny. At the end of the day these coaches were very similar, mostly minor differences between them all and from a distance…it would be very hard to tell if they were all in different liveries 

What these coaches provide is something I would’ve died for when I started Irish modeling 3 years ago. A cheap way to make 1950s rolling stock that will suit steam and diesel alike from this period. These are the first mass produced coaches suitibe for A1, A30 and any Irish steak loco alongside a major upgrade for A46, A42, B121 and B135 (and that’s not including the single Black and Tan inclusion) . And any loco of course produced in the future compatible for this coach. 
 

Just seen @jhb171achill has posted I’m sure he has said what I was going on to say! 

[Irishswissernie]

Mystery solved! I had an email last week from Hattons requesting the use of a J15 negative , I had an inkling it might have been the stock it was pulling rather than the locomotive. Unfortunately I have already purchased a rake of SR 6 wheelers for the S&DJR!

Edited November 14, 2022 by Irishswissernie

[murphaph]

22 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes. They are very similar to one long-lived GSWR design, and carry numbers and liveries of exact examples which were still about post-1954 or so. A MUST-buy!

Cheers JB, I can't use them on the planned 21mm layout but they are worth supporting so I have ordered the 4 pack for the display case  I know these are "just repaints" but it's a good sign of a growing market for Irish RTR.

[Westcorkrailway]

Just ordered the 4-pack of dark green and 3 light green coaches…..now all I need is laminates and/or Park Royal’s and I can flog on my CIE BR mark 1 coaches 

[leslie10646]

48 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes. They are very similar to one long-lived GSWR design, and carry numbers and liveries of exact examples which were still about post-1954 or so. A MUST-buy!

OK, JB, I'll take your good advice! Going to their website NOW.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, meathdane said:

Just got an email from Hattons! A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one

EXCEPTIONALLY good news; I understand in limited numbers too.........

[Westcorkrailway]

Just now, jhb171achill said:

EXCEPTIONALLY good news; I understand in limited numbers too.........

Let the hoarding begin

[MOGUL]

Without stirring the pot..

IRM moved some track panels for Maam when they released the As, supported Tailte tours on their inaugural run and dontated funds from the sale of ballasts to the DCDR to preserve the real thing..

Wonder if hattons could be convinced to contribute towards rescuing a 6 wheeler, there is a suitable candidate just down the road from Maam after all!

 

[Blaine]

2 minutes ago, MOGUL said:

Wonder if hattons could be convinced to contribute towards rescuing a 6 wheeler, there is a suitable candidate just down the road from Maam after all!

In short - no. Dont bite the hand. Just be thankful they are making these

[Ironroad]

Great news and nice to see that they listened to those of us that lobbied them to do this quite some time ago. Goes to prove, if you don't ask it won't happen.

[Irishswissernie]

While I think on these are the coaches which will be available in the Irish liveries ie.the actual models but in SR livery.

 

 

[Noel]

58 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Just ordered the 4-pack of dark green and 3 light green coaches…..now all I need is laminates and/or Park Royal’s and I can flog on my CIE BR mark 1 coaches 

Ordered. Agree Park Royals and/or laminates after the 22k would be a long held wish

[J-Mo Arts]

I wonder, if these are popular, might we see some "pre-grouping" Irish versions? That would certainly spark my interest 

[Niles]

Well I began today with a healthy debit card and now it's... less healthy.

As for rescuing the real thing, DCDR have a six wheeler under restoration https://www.downrail.co.uk/rolling-stock/gswr-69/ and more on site.

(seriously if anyone would like to help in some shape with these I can point you to the right people...)

 

 

[Georgeconna]

2 hours ago, Flying Snail said:

Well thats interesting. Not quite the WCIR triple packs I'm hoping for, but these are tempting

Does anyone know if the carriages in the 4-pack are numbered differently to the carriages sold individually?

Can't see anything on the Website that suggest the numbers? Weird, I don't want to end up with Duplicates.