First photos of Irish Railway Models' ballast wagon (pre-production)

[Garfield]

Unfortunately all my stock is back in Longford. I'll see what I can do...

[aclass007]

Would it be possible to post a picture of it next a 141 or 071 to get a idea of the size of it? Just like to see how it sits next to a MM loco height wise.

 

I was going to ask the same thing..... But I saw it mentioned somewhere that this sample wagon is on slightly over sized wheels, so it may be sitting a little high next to a loco. Just something to bare in mind, if we get a picture....

[Railer]

I was going to ask the same thing..... But I saw it mentioned somewhere that this sample wagon is on slightly over sized wheels, so it may be sitting a little high next to a loco. Just something to bare in mind, if we get a picture....

 

I was wondering that as looking at the side on pictures, the coupling bar looked to me to be sitting very high above the rail height for an uncoupling ramp to engage.

[Garfield]

Taken by a member of the MRSI during our visit yesterday evening:

 

[Railer]

That looks superb next to the 141, thanks. The coupling does look to be mounted a bit high on the model to my eye, could be the camera angle though.

[iarnrod]

Here is a pic of a cement bubble wagon (same chassis) next to a 141 Class loco for comparison. Looks pretty spot on to me.

 

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Irish%20Locomotives/141%20Class/IrishLocomotives.html#168_20050129_001_CC_JA.jpg

[iarnrod]

If the model is based on CIE drawing No. 468, then the main dimensions and their corresponding rounded conversion to 4mm scale should be as follows, if my calculations are correct :

 

Length over buffers : 23' 6.25" = 282.25" = 94.33mm

Length over underframe : 20' 0" = 240" = 80.21mm

Hopper length : 15' 0" = 180" = 60.157mm

Overall height : 8' 9" = 105" = 35.09mm

Top of hopper side to top of curve on hopper end : 6" = 2mm

Hopper height from top of underframe to top of hopper side : 4' 3" = 51" = 17.04mm

Underframe height : 10" = 3.34mm

Height top of rail to bottom of underframe : 3' 2" = 38" = 12.7mm

Bottom of hopper discharge to top of rail : 1' 3" = 15" = 5.01mm

Wheel diameter : 3' 1.5" = 37.5" = 12.53mm

 

Pretty much every model ever made has some variation on the real dimensions and their associated conversion to a scale model, so I expect that is also the case on this model. However, to my mind, the model is certainly an excellent representation of the real thing.

[steventrain]

look superb, Well done to IRM Team.

[Glenderg]

If the model is based on CIE drawing No. 468, then the main dimensions and their corresponding rounded conversion to 4mm scale should be as follows, if my calculations are correct :

 

The model is not based on any drawing, as drawings, especially from CIE, are notoriously inaccurate.It is based on a physical measured and photographed survey of a wagon in the North Wall Yard, so I'd hesitate to use any of the dimensions along with a calipers to check. It's a scale representation of the real thing, with the only compromises relating to manufacturers abilities. This is a 21mm wagon on a 00 wheelset, effectively!

 

I'll be getting the wagon later and putting it through the NCT for the coupler height.

 

Richie.

[Broithe]

Has anybody counted the rivets?

[jhb171achill]

Very well done, gents. Truly excellent addition to the Irish railway scene. (It's in the wrong shade or purple, though...)

[WRENNEIRE]

It even runs.....

 

[RedRich]

The model is not based on any drawing, as drawings, especially from CIE, are notoriously inaccurate.It is based on a physical measured and photographed survey of a wagon in the North Wall Yard, so I'd hesitate to use any of the dimensions along with a calipers to check. It's a scale representation of the real thing, with the only compromises relating to manufacturers abilities. This is a 21mm wagon on a 00 wheelset, effectively!

 

I'll be getting the wagon later and putting it through the NCT for the coupler height.

 

Richie.

 

100% agree Richie. General Arrangement Drawings are what they say they are just a general arrangement of what an item of rolling stock will look like when complete. Going on site, correctly measuring and surveying the wagon is how you will arrive at getting it as close as possible to the correct dimensions.

 

I am confident that the wagon will raise the bar again. The EPP model is really showing that a top class model will be the result and this is a win win situation for everybody. I hope that everyone appreciates the amount of hard work and effort the lads have put into this project, they certainly have it from me.

 

Rich,

[DiveController]

I'm sure you guys have done your homework and it will be spot on!!

 

Promoting the wagon like this, with the step by step tooling shots, the CAD drawing etc is a great approach. Hopefully you'll continue to do the same with future releases.

Have to agree. I really enjoyed the CADs with the various parts picked out in different colours. Really allowed me to gain an appreciation for the various parts including air pipes, hopper doors, and braking system which I would otherwise have glossed over. These really look well.

 

Also noticed this evening that they can be converted to 21mm very simply

Great bit of engineering there men

I have to agree this is a very important point. Not just for the relatively few presently modelling to the correct gauge but if a decent rtr track (and points) were to become available, I'd be tempted to convert a lot of stock.

Edited August 6, 2016 by DiveController

[GSR 800]

absolutely EPIC

[Junctionmad]

Excellent , I love the under frame detail , well done

[NIRCLASS80]

Have the NEM pocket height been checked for Kadee coupling use??

[Glenderg]

Have the NEM pocket height been checked for Kadee coupling use??

 

See below....

 

Evening Folks,

 

As we have outlined, this is Engineering Prototype 01 (EP01), concerned with overall appearance, and the look of the model, whereas EP02 generally deals with the business of polishing the tooling to a smooth finish, removing any imperfections, and getting the wheels turned (these are custom to our run) and sorting out any coupling issues.

 

There have been a few concerns raised both here and on social media platforms about coupler height. Since everyone appears content with the overall shape, we chose to tackle this head on. It couples to a 141, but anyone with a track mounted de-coupler would have an issue. In order to resolve it there are four different elements that have to be taken into account, principally:

 

- The centre line of the coupler box is 2.1mm too high, by NEM standards.

 

- The NEM socket is moulded to the buffer beam, so cannot simply be removed and dropped to a chose height.

 

- If there is a substantial design change, then re-tooling must occur, which means a delay in production. This would involve both the ballast wagon, and the cement bubble.

 

- There is a horizontal crossbar for the vacuum cylinders that is in the centre line of the NEM socket.

 

 

So here’s the condensed version of a very long conversation (72 hours?) amongst all stakeholders….

 

01 – If we drop the whole NEM pocket and extend it down to its desired height, it will interfere with the vacuum chamber crossbar, which will require a re-tooling, and create a big lump of plastic hanging from the wagon. Thus all visual finesse will be lost.

 

02 – We could drop it down, and extend the crossbar downward, but again this would require a retooling, further delay and, well, look nasty. Plus, the crossbar would now be fraudulent.

 

03 – One of our teams’ stock is fitted with Kadee’s and brought their compatibility to the table, so that has to have a suitable resolution. (We did not find any Alex Jackson Coupling Enthusiasts on our travels…..)

 

04 – A cranked or swan neck fitting would do the trick, but it is to an older standard and this would leave the NEM pocket in an unsuitable position for Kadee fitted stock.

 

After much discussion, some brain lubrication juice, and calliper activity, we have settled on the swan neck fitting as it keeps production pace steady, does not compromise the visual fidelity of the wagon we bust a gut to achieve, keeps the crossbar intact, and will marry up nicely with your Murphy Model of choice.

 

As for the Kadee issue, it can be mounted directly to the underside of the NEM pocket (you’ll have to file off the IRM stamping, alas) and it fits perfectly between the crossbar and underside of the pocket – a no. 18 or 19 will work. This also lines up perfectly with the Kadee track gauge. Please see photos below.

 

 

 

Comments welcome.

 

Richie

Edited August 8, 2016 by Garfield

[richrua]

A lot to digest there! It seems like a perfectly acceptable fix to me. I appreciate that your priority is a highly accurate model.

[popeye]

Coupling height is always a problem.

I find different makers height varies up or down.

What i might do is glue a piece of thin plastic under the socket then glue

the coupling to that.I do this with other wagons i build and i can keep

the coupling from sticking out to much past the buffers.

[Noel]

Seriously Impressive. Congrats guys. The tension lock swan neck solution seems like the best compromise. Looking forward to planned delivery in 11 weeks.

 

Ps. Any pre-production pics of the load?

[scahalane]

Forget the couplings.. I'm loveing the teaser shot of the coloured beast complete with ballast. Is that one ye painted yourselves because it looks dam sexy..more please.

[Garfield]

That's the EP1 sample which Richie has painted for colour-matching purposes. The load is his own handiwork... no sample of the production load available yet, unfortunately.

[Sulzer201]

A huge congratulations to everyone involved in this project, the finished product is a superb model.

[NIRCLASS80]

Thanks for the info on Kadees. I think that is easy enough fix.

[Warbonnet]

So, we decided to paint and weather our pre-production ballast wagon up and put a load in to see how it looked. Wonky buffer aside, what do you think?

 

We're currently working with the factory in China on our snag list with this sample and should soon have factory decorated, corrected samples to share.

 

[Northwest141]

Excellent

[scahalane]

Looks fantastic.

[Noel]

Apart from one of Richie's hairs on the load It looks absolutely stunning.

 

If they come out of the box factory weathered as well as that most of us will fall off our perches with excitement. Top class, well done guys.

[BosKonay]

Thanks all, selling fast - grab them while hot

 

https://irishrailwaymodels.com/index.php/shop/

[ttc0169]

Fantastic very realistic paint job,

It's a credit to all your hard work lads.

[Warbonnet]

Thanks men, we think the pics speak for themselves. We're getting very excited about them. As Bosko says, they've been selling well since we published pics of the pre-production model and brought it round the clubs.

 

Apart from one of Richie's hairs on the load It looks absolutely stunning.

 

If they come out of the box factory weathered as well as that most of us will fall off our perches with excitement. Top class, well done guys.

 

Thanks Noel, the paint finish with the patch paint marks and the decals like above will feature on the finished model. The models wont be weathered as we felt that factory weathering wouldnt be a patch on the services offered by the likes of Grahams, George Norman, Tony Mirolo, Anthony Smyth and indeed our own Glenderg. Their skills will truly do the wagons justice and I'm sure most are up for commissions.

[popeye]

Looks amazing, well done.

[Weshty]

If you can produce it looking painted like that, happy days.

 

Looks superb.

[RedRich]

The paint job really brings it to life. You can see the little details such as the builders plate etc more clearly. Superb work men and thanks for giving us top level rolling stock we have been wishing would be produced for ages.

 

Rich,