IRM A Class Now In Production! Here's why you should get your pre-orders in sooner than later...

[connollystn]

@GSR 800 - Thanks for posting that picture. The A30 looks really great in that setting and I'm delighted I got my hands on a few of these cuties. I see in the background that you have the black and tan version [A15] which now I regret not buying. Saw it at the last Wexford show and knew straight away knew that I'd made a mistake. That's the worst thing - no amount of pictures are a substitute for seeing the real thing.

[GSR 800]

7 minutes ago, connollystn said:

@GSR 800 - Thanks for posting that picture. The A30 looks really great in that setting and I'm delighted I got my hands on a few of these cuties. I see in the background that you have the black and tan version [A15] which now I regret not buying. Saw it at the last Wexford show and knew straight away knew that I'd made a mistake. That's the worst thing - no amount of pictures are a substitute for seeing the real thing.

Aye I went with A15 first as I knew the Black n Tans would sell out quite quickly. Have to say though, A30 is a stand out among my diesels, you can understand where the lads from CIE were coming from with the original livery choice, even if it ended up weathering horribly. And a good few went on into the mid 60s with that livery, though completely filthy by that point!

Really a stunning looking model in the silver.

[Sean]

41 minutes ago, connollystn said:

@GSR 800 - Thanks for posting that picture. The A30 looks really great in that setting and I'm delighted I got my hands on a few of these cuties. I see in the background that you have the black and tan version [A15] which now I regret not buying. Saw it at the last Wexford show and knew straight away knew that I'd made a mistake. That's the worst thing - no amount of pictures are a substitute for seeing the real thing.

It should still be possible to get one from Chris Dyer.

[BosKonay]

https://irishrailwaymodels.com/collections/a-class-locomotive/availability_in-stock?

[connollystn]

@Sean - Thanks very much for that suggestion.

[JasonB]

23 hours ago, Fowler4f said:

IRM, I’m not happy to say the least, I have now paid over the top for A30 from Private Supplier as I understood you had sold out. Rubbish ! I have purchased Eighteen A Class from you already. I recently received a demand of full payment for 13 Magnesite wagons when I had already paid £200 + towards the order, granted there are now in stock earlier than expected and I have agreed to pay then balance ! 
But I am beginning to think we are being taking for granted and that is not good enough. No excuses, thank you.

Christ, that's harsher than somebody going at your nether regions with an angle grinder. 

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, JasonB said:

Christ, that's harsher than somebody going at your nether regions with an angle grinder. 

Were you the grinder or the grindee, or is the memory too painful to discuss?

[JasonB]

13 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Were you the grinder or the grindee, or is the memory too painful to discuss?

Neither. More of a reoccurring nightmare. I usually have it after a few pints. 

[Georgeconna]

11 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Strange!

it was sent to sales@irishrailwaymodels.com June 13th 4.50PM

Would in be in Spam as I had an Attachment on it?

OkI will follow the instructions above to as I have honestly made a pigs ear of this ordering lark!!

Sorted pretty quickly by the lads. I actually forgot I had a standing order into IRM.  

Thanks for the Patience lads.

[Patrick Davey]

Ok folks what's the story..... there had been a few less-than-subtle hints on here recently about new goodies.....powered goodies...... yes the magnesite wagons are awesome but not on my geographical radar and as for the Deltic..... admittedly I have been drooling but unless Boris gets his bridge or tunnel completed AND re-gauges the whole of Ireland (or GB) then I'm unlikely to have reason to run one.....

Yes we got our AAAAAAmazing As and now our 'across the water' colleagues have their DDDDDDDelightful Deltics so surely it's back to us again.........

[GSR 800]

10 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

Ok folks what's the story..... there had been a few less-than-subtle hints on here recently about new goodies.....powered goodies...... yes the magnesite wagons are awesome but not on my geographical radar and as for the Deltic..... admittedly I have been drooling but unless Boris gets his bridge or tunnel completed AND re-gauges the whole of Ireland (or GB) then I'm unlikely to have reason to run one.....

Yes we got our AAAAAAmazing As and now our 'across the water' colleagues have their DDDDDDDelightful Deltics so surely it's back to us again.........

I'm sure we'll get some Beautiful B1a's next....in my dreams anyway..

Edited July 1, 2022 by GSR 800

[iarnrod]

There was/is supposed to be 16 new IRM announcements this year, if I remember correctly. One of the IRM lads mentioned that figure at the start of the year.

Also, 2 out of that 16 are supposed to be powered models, which by IRM's own definition, is something with a motor in it.

I'm guessing Covid and the continuing effect on factories in China, along with logistics issues, are probably delaying things along the way.

I'd also imagine that IRM are holding off on one or more of the bigger releases until the model show in October, but still a fair few announcements to come.

Edited July 1, 2022 by iarnrod

[Sean]

I dont mind waiting as long as i know what im waiting for so im not out shopping for alternatives when an RTR is coming.

[DJ Dangerous]

The possible list of announcements was:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/11116-0mg-magnesite-wagons-next-for-irm/page/3/#comment-178186

But Boskonay cautioned us that:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/11116-0mg-magnesite-wagons-next-for-irm/page/3/#comment-178210

I imagine that one of the announcements will have a vague P42 connection:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/11612-new-announcement-give-your-depot-a-lift-with-cie-forklifts/#comment-180512

Or a strong one:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/11461-irm-kegs-wanted/#comment-177221

But, to be honest, I'm looking at the bank balance, and selfishly praying for more delays!

[iarnrod]

There has been strong hints of further coaching stock from the IRM lads, so my money is on the Park Royals.

With the NIR Mk.2's announced, I suspect further IR versions to be announced at some point, and also a natural progression there would be the 80 Class as one of the powered items.

Also a mention from them at some point in the past of one of the Project 42 wagons having a re-run. Hard to know which one, but if the Ammonia wagons are on the cards, natural option would be fertiliser wagons for a re-run. I suspect keg containers and other accessory packs will be re-run as all except the fert packs have long sold out.

The forklift pack would surely count as another of the 16 releases, so I reckon that IRM are only around 2 releases behind schedule as of now.

Anyway, we can speculate all day, but still 6 months and around 10 announcements still to come in 2022.

Bank balance breathes a sigh of relief for now.

[murphaph]

8 hours ago, Sean said:

I dont mind waiting as long as i know what im waiting for so im not out shopping for alternatives when an RTR is coming.

The flip side of that particular coin is that if IRM says "we want to release x at some stage" then the "when is x finally coming, you announce stuff but then don't deliver for years" comments start. IRM now has a firm policy of announcing a new model when the first engineering samples are ready and not before as they can reasonably predict the time to market from that point. As was mentioned with the recent Class 89, even getting access to the prototype can pose major challenges so it's unwise to announce stuff you haven't at least got your CAD done on. 

The basic rule of thumb for Irish models and IRM is simple enough though I would assume....more or less everything will be done eventually, certainly anything that existed in numbers in real life. The one offs are the most difficult to justify but at least of you decide to scratch build a one off you will only make one and not a rake or something. Anything you could conceivably make a rake of I would suggest will eventually be covered by IRM and to keep your powder dry, unless you enjoy making stuff. In which case there's no harm done.

[JasonB]

16 minutes ago, murphaph said:

The basic rule of thumb for Irish models and IRM is simple enough though I would assume....more or less everything will be done eventually, certainly anything that existed in numbers in real life. The one offs are the most difficult to justify but at least of you decide to scratch build a one off you will only make one and not a rake or something. Anything you could conceivably make a rake of I would suggest will eventually be covered by IRM and to keep your powder dry, unless you enjoy making stuff. In which case there's no harm done.

Agree completely. If it's viable, it will eventually be released. More patience and less speculation is what's needed. 

[BosKonay]

Speculate away - it's fun

 

[Patrick Davey]

1 hour ago, JasonB said:

Agree completely. If it's viable, it will eventually be released. More patience and less speculation is what's needed. 

Patience is boring

[murphaph]

I actually wouldn't like to be a GB modeller right now. The amount of top drawer stuff AS is releasing would mean passing on this or that and then regretting it immediately. At least with our less frantic pace we have a chance to acquire things we like and then let the wallet recover in time for the next hit. 

[BosKonay]

1 minute ago, murphaph said:

I actually wouldn't like to be a GB modeller right now. The amount of top drawer stuff AS is releasing would mean passing on this or that and then regretting it immediately. At least with our less frantic pace we have a chance to acquire things we like and then let the wallet recover in time for the next hit. 

When we asked in the last customer survey of IRM customers, the feedback was a gentler pace, and more notice. 

So, unlike the Accurascale side, we will continue launching new tool IRM models when we are fully finished the research, development and CAD and ready to start tooling, which is about 60-70 days to a sample, about the same again for a decorated sample and at least the same again for assembly. So about a year, to 18 months of warning, give or take. 

Non new-tools, or accurascale crossovers, like Mk2b, 2c and others to come, will launch with a sample, or decorated sample, typically cutting lead times to under 12 months. 

Hope that helps, we do have so much underway

[DJ Dangerous]

27 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

When we asked in the last customer survey of IRM customers, the feedback was a gentler pace, and more notice. 

So, unlike the Accurascale side, we will continue launching new tool IRM models when we are fully finished the research, development and CAD and ready to start tooling, which is about 60-70 days to a sample, about the same again for a decorated sample and at least the same again for assembly. So about a year, to 18 months of warning, give or take. 

Non new-tools, or accurascale crossovers, like Mk2b, 2c and others to come, will launch with a sample, or decorated sample, typically cutting lead times to under 12 months. 

Hope that helps, we do have so much underway

 

That sounds perfect to me...

But also, how amazing is it to have a manufacturer of our niche within a niche within a niche hobby, ask for feedback, take it on board, and respond in kind???

Hmmmmm, maybe I'm reading too much into that post...

Accurascale Mk2B/C crossovers TO COME... So another Irish Mk2B/C that we don't yet know about, aside from the RPSI an NIR variants???

[Westcorkrailway]

2 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

That sounds perfect to me...

But also, how amazing is it to have a manufacturer of our niche within a niche within a niche hobby, ask for feedback, take it on board, and respond in kind???

Hmmmmm, maybe I'm reading too much into that post...

Accurascale Mk2B/C crossovers TO COME... So another Irish Mk2B/C that we don't yet know about, aside from the RPSI an NIR variants???

Or perhaps they mean more crossovers…mk3, mk1…LMS compound….Jinty…….N class

Over-analysis is what we do! 

[Mayner]

2 hours ago, murphaph said:

 The basic rule of thumb for Irish models and IRM is simple enough though I would assume....more or less everything will be done eventually, certainly anything that existed in numbers in real life. The one offs are the most difficult to justify but at least of you decide to scratch build a one off you will only make one and not a rake or something. Anything you could conceivably make a rake of I would suggest will eventually be covered by IRM and to keep your powder dry, unless you enjoy making stuff. In which case there's no harm done.

There is an interesting RM Web post from Stephen on the minimum numbers in terms of sale Accurascale consider viable  for producing a particular model https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/155786-more-model-ideas/page/66/.

Difficult to see the sales of Irish individual locos, coaches or wagons reaching those levels due to the very small size of the market (1000 active modellers/collectors )

The forthcoming IRM Enterprise stock is based on a synergy with the Accurascale MK2, though whether the numbers stack up for an 80 Class or even IE MK2ac with Dutch Van only Accurascale and IRM know.

While locos particularly prestigious ones (possibly railcars) and block train wagons are likely to sell, its difficult to see IRM or tooling up for a 'essential items" for the 1950-80s era such a Buffet Cars, Heating and Luggage Vans and TPOs let alone a GSWR Corridor or a MGWR 6w coach for Southern Modellers

Modellers of Ulster's railways broad and narrow continue to show great resilience and determination continuing to scratch, kit and scratchbuild high quality models of locos stock and structures as opposed to waiting for rtr models or kits to appear!

 

2 minutes ago, Mayner said:

There is an interesting RM Web post from Stephen on the minimum numbers in terms of sale Accurascale consider viable  for producing a particular model https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/155786-more-model-ideas/page/66/.

Difficult to see the sales of Irish individual locos, coaches or wagons reaching those levels due to the very small size of the market (1000 active modellers/collectors )

The forthcoming IRM Enterprise stock is based on a synergy with the Accurascale MK2, though whether the numbers (demand) stack up for an 80 Class or even IE MK2ac with Dutch Van only Accurascale and IRM know.

While locos particularly prestigious ones (possibly railcars) and block train wagons are likely to sell, its difficult to see IRM or tooling up for such 'essential items" for the 1950-80s era such a Buffet Cars, Heating and Luggage Vans and TPOs let alone a GSWR Corridor or a MGWR 6w coach for Southern Modellers

Modellers of Ulster's railways broad and narrow continue to show great resilience and determination continuing to scratch, kit and scratchbuild high quality models of locos stock and structures as opposed to waiting for rtr models or kits to appear!

 

 

[JasonB]

5 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

Patience is boring

Yes it is. But it's not as boring as reading the same repetitive suggestions over and over again. That's just my opinion. 

Speculate away. 

 

[Ironroad]

I see it as lobbying and I don't see any harm in keeping hopes alive. Most certainly some of our wishes are probably unrealistic commercially but we have not seen outright dismissal of the suggestions being made and it would be a shame if the goose that laid the golden egg was forgotten entirely as I sometimes fear is the way things are going.

I think these are the figures posted by Stephen on RM Web quote;

"Generally if we can make 20-30k of it, if its a wagon, 15-20k of it if its a coach and at least 5-8k of it if its a loco, it's 'viable' in our eyes. "

The problem is that if John is right in his assessment above that the market is as small as 1,000 active modellers/collectors, that number is not necessarily representative of the interest that may exist for particular offerings because it is diluted by bias for particular periods.  

So I think the best we can hope for is items that spanned long periods of time that will sell in multiples.  A possibility here is the AEC DMUs that ran in various liveries from 1951 to the early '80's.

Running contrary to all of this was the production of the ballast plough. The probability is that few of us purchased more than a pair and they did take a while to sell out and that maybe a reason for hesitancy to go with such a unique item again. But given the fact that they are essential to completing a ballast train, did they contribute to sales of the ballast wagon?  So I don't think items that may have low volume demand can be entirely ruled out. It is noteworthy that Paddy Murphy seems to have had success in selling purely complementary items such as EGVs and Restaurant cars.

So is the glass half full or half empty??? 

 

 

 

[BosKonay]

If it helps, between both Irish and UK/Europe/row irm has 4106 registered customers. So the market is a bit bigger than you might think.

 

This forum has 1616 members, and it's only a 'subset' of the Irish modellers out there, or those that will buy something Irish for nostalgic reasons.

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, BosKonay said:

If it helps, between both Irish and UK/Europe/row irm has 4106 registered customers. So the market is a bit bigger than you might think.

 

This forum has 1616 members, and it's only a 'subset' of the Irish modellers out there, or those that will buy something Irish for nostalgic reasons.

 

I was wondering if the thousand-strong estimate was a little bit small.

Plus there are non-direct buyers who will buy at physical shops, at shows, or from trusted retailers and sellers.

There was a second-hand A30 for sale at Hattons a month or two back. Don't have a screenshot to hand, but I'm almost sure it sold for more than IRM are selling them for.

Hard to gauge but I'm sure it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that there are another thousand or more who will buy non-direct...

So, 15 x 071 variants at 504 units each, we buy two locos each and they're all sold!

Imagine if IRM sold via Hattons, Rails, Kernow etc. There'd be murder on here, as there wouldn't be enough availability for Irish buyers to even get one loco each. The market would quadruple overnight.

Edited July 3, 2022 by DJ Dangerous

[murphaph]

The NIR buffet, generator vans and driving trailers are super niche as well and share little with the GB mk2's. If those things are viable then most stuff is I'd say.

[Colin R]

May be a B or a C class loco would go down well, if you are looking to model a certain time period in the Irish scene, for what it is worth I happen to like the late 30's to early 60's period so I can run a mixture of both Steam and Diesel locos.

I am not sure as to what the last classes of Irish steam locos where, but if you looked at those that have made it into Preservation then that would be a start.

Colin 

[jhb171achill]

4 minutes ago, Colin R said:

May be a B or a C class loco would go down well, if you are looking to model a certain time period in the Irish scene, for what it is worth I happen to like the late 30's to early 60's period so I can run a mixture of both Steam and Diesel locos.

I am not sure as to what the last classes of Irish steam locos where, but if you looked at those that have made it into Preservation then that would be a start.

Colin 

Agreed - a “C” fits well into the steam / diesel changeover period.

Thr last steam engines in use anywhere in Ireland were N I Railways’ “WT” class 2.6.4Ts, known as “Jeeps”. No. 4, one of the very last two (withdrawn 1970), is preserved at Whitehead.

The last in use in CIE (April 1963) were a mixed bag, mostly elderly 0.6.0 tender engines of GSWR (J15), and MGWR (J18/J19) origin, but a couple of “Woolwich” 2.6.0s and several old 4.4.0s of various origins also lasted to about 1962. Notable among the others were the last few 400 class 4.6.0s and a couple of the useful MGWR J26 0.6.0Ts.

The last GNR locos, two 0.6.0 goods engines, lasted until about 1965 or 1966, under the UTA. I saw them often.

[jhb171achill]

I should add that as far as I’m aware, all the locos used on the last beet campaign with steam (winter 1962/3) were J15s, and the last locos used on a CIE passenger service which was all steam (Loughrea, Ballinrobe, Ballaghaderreen) were the similar ex-MGWR J18 0.6.0s. Loughrea went diesel in April 1963. A couple of G2 2.4.0 tender locos were still on the Sligo line until almost the end of steam.

[Ironroad]

5 hours ago, BosKonay said:

If it helps, between both Irish and UK/Europe/row irm has 4106 registered customers. So the market is a bit bigger than you might think. .

That sheds a more positive light on matters and is encouraging. 

1 hour ago, Colin R said:

May be a B or a C class loco would go down well, if you are looking to model a certain time period in the Irish scene, for what it is worth I happen to like the late 30's to early 60's period so I can run a mixture of both Steam and Diesel locos.

Yes a C class is an obvious choice and they together with the AEC railcars that would open up lots of possibilities.

[Galteemore]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Agreed - a “C” fits well into the steam / diesel changeover period.

Thr last steam engines in use anywhere in Ireland were N I Railways’ “WT” class 2.6.4Ts, known as “Jeeps”. No. 4, one of the very last two (withdrawn 1970), is preserved at Whitehead.

The last in use in CIE (April 1963) were a mixed bag, mostly elderly 0.6.0 tender engines of GSWR (J15), and MGWR (J18/J19) origin, but a couple of “Woolwich” 2.6.0s and several old 4.4.0s of various origins also lasted to about 1962. Notable among the others were the last few 400 class 4.6.0s and a couple of the useful MGWR J26 0.6.0Ts.

The last GNR locos, two 0.6.0 goods engines, lasted until about 1965 or 1966, under the UTA. I saw them often.

Honour compels me to mention the ex SLNC Z class tanks, 26 and 27, both of which passed to NIR stock - the only non-WT operational steam locos on NIR books - the GNR locos (UGs 48 and 49) stored at Grosvenor Road may have technically been in NIR stock, but they never ran as such AFAIK.

The two ‘Loughs’ were, incidentally, the last named locos to run on an Irish railway under company ownership and operation. 

This photo of ‘Lough Erne’, linked from Flickr, was taken under NIR ownership in 1969. 27 lasted almost till the very end of steam on NIR.

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Galteemore

[Colin R]

26 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Honour compels me to mention the ex SLNC Z class tanks, 26 and 27, both of which passed to NIR stock - the only non-WT operational steam locos on NIR books - the GNR locos (UGs 48 and 49) stored at Grosvenor Road may have technically been in NIR stock, but they never ran as such AFAIK.

The two ‘Loughs’ were, incidentally, the last named locos to run on an Irish railway under company ownership and operation. 

This photo of ‘Lough Erne’, linked from Flickr, was taken under NIR ownership in 1969. 27 lasted almost till the very end of steam on NIR.

 

This photo makes me want to take up 7mm modelling. That said I have been thinking for a while about a Gauge 3 size garden layout (that is 13.5mm or 17/32inch to the foot scale) with an Irish gauge of 70.875mm or 2 3/4inches in old money. 

 

Colin Rainsbury