Murphy Models new 201 and Mk3 coaches

[Bob229]

Any update on the new release from Murphy Models of 201 loco and Mk3 coaches

[Westcorkrailway]

Ids say it’s a case of when they release they drop…..that’s it.

 

I’d go to the “new murphy’s products” thread for information

 

[connollystn]

Not a fan of the Murpby Models 201. Doesn't capture the character of the prototype due to obvious inaccuraracies. Consodering what the guys at I.R.M. did with the A class would much prefer them to do an up-to-date mode of the 201(new).

[Westcorkrailway]

51 minutes ago, connollystn said:

Not a fan of the Murpby Models 201. Doesn't capture the character of the prototype due to obvious inaccuraracies. Consodering what the guys at I.R.M. did with the A class would much prefer them to do an up-to-date mode of the 201(new).

I’d dissagree. Murphy’s 201s are not the strongest model of the bunch but are still very serviceable models. I look foraward to the upcoming release of the newer badger, enterprise and ecpecially IE liveries 

[Ironroad]

7 hours ago, connollystn said:

Not a fan of the Murpby Models 201. Doesn't capture the character of the prototype due to obvious inaccuraracies. Consodering what the guys at I.R.M. did with the A class would much prefer them to do an up-to-date mode of the 201(new).

I find this to be a very disappointing comment, he stuck his neck out to cater to a niche market and now we are spoiled

[Bob229]

The Lima 201 was a good start for Irish railway models and Murphy Models 201 brought it to the next level looking forward to the new model 201 could not fault Murphy Models 201,  now has anyone heard any rumours on when they will arrive maybe I know a man Thanks

[Westcorkrailway]

25 minutes ago, Bob229 said:

The Lima 201 was a good start for Irish railway models and Murphy Models 201 brought it to the next level looking forward to the new model 201 could not fault Murphy Models 201,  now has anyone heard any rumours on when they will arrive maybe I know a man Thanks

It was mentioned in the soft announcement that it was late 2021-spring 2022. If we take into account delays witch are inevitable due to shipping ect. My GUESS would be April-august 2022

 

i could also be presently suprised

[JasonB]

12 hours ago, connollystn said:

Not a fan of the Murpby Models 201. Doesn't capture the character of the prototype due to obvious inaccuraracies.

We're all entitled to our opinion, but have you got any 201's? I was never a fan of the prototype, but I've half a dozen of the model. Great detail, decent runners and have never given me any trouble. 

Not sure what the obvious inaccuracies you refer to are, but is any model perfect?  

[JasonB]

15 hours ago, Bob229 said:

Any update on the new release from Murphy Models of 201 loco and Mk3 coaches

According to Murphy's website nothing has changed regarding the 201's. Still showing as late 2021 early 22. As for the Mk3's, that's anyone's guess. I don't count the months or days for the release of a model anymore. When they arrive, they arrive.   

[John-r]

Hi all,. This is a genuine question and not to have a go at anyone's opinions, but as JasonB has also asked in previous post, what are the inaccuracies with the  Murphy models 201, I have a good few of these models as well and thought they looked the part , as I don't know whats wrong with them ( if anything) would we really need another version of this loco, I stand to be corrected on this subject.

Cheers lads.

[NIRCLASS80]

I know I am delighted with mine. The red marker lights not being independently switched is the only thing that requires modifying. 
Murphys even model the blanked foot steps on the cab front as modified in real life by IE. 
 

[murphaph]

I thought PM released his own 201 precisely because he wasn't entirely happy with the Lima one and set out to improve on the details. I like my ones very much and would buy more of they were released in the original livery, which is the only one I ever intend modelling. I'm not really sure how much they could be improved upon. The mechanism is good. Cab interior detailing can be done by the modeller. The lighting could be better with the ability to independently control the tail lights and so on but again, with a bit of know how this can be tackled by the modeller.

I'm not  rivet counter though, so perhaps there are some glaring anomalies with the model that I have never noticed.

[Bob229]

Speaking of 201, just saw 215 departing Kent with the 11.25 Dublin service can't beat a loco hauled service

[irishthump]

15 hours ago, connollystn said:

Not a fan of the Murpby Models 201. Doesn't capture the character of the prototype due to obvious inaccuraracies. Consodering what the guys at I.R.M. did with the A class would much prefer them to do an up-to-date mode of the 201(new).

Seriously? The 201 is a very high-spec and a wonderful runner. I'd love to hear a full list of these "obvious inaccuracies".

The 201 is the only MM loco that I don't have more than one of, and I always regretted it!

[Noel]

2 hours ago, Bob229 said:

Speaking of 201, just saw 215 departing Kent with the 11.25 Dublin service can't beat a loco hauled service

Yes was on cork train yesterday and Monday. Tipping along at 160kph in places. 4006 was bouncing a lot yesterday, but comfy seats in the CAF mk4 coaches. Alas no food on board, not even trolleys (covid gets the blame). The Green'n'grey livery 201s look great matching their coaching stock. Noticed some of the 22ks got nicer seats recently, noisy though inside the cabin compared to the relaxing 'whoosh' of the mk4s gliding along on CWR. Often wondered what might happen if a leading coach or DVT derailed when being pushed at 100mph by a 201 (ie what are the fail safes, etc).

17 hours ago, connollystn said:

Not a fan of the Murpby Models 201. Doesn't capture the character of the prototype due to obvious inaccuraracies. Consodering what the guys at I.R.M. did with the A class would much prefer them to do an up-to-date mode of the 201(new).

Not sure what said inaccuracies might be, but I like my two Intercity green models 222 and 229. Nice smooth runners but as models just very long locos as are mk4 coaches, so never going to look very realistic on typical layout curves.  Hard to fit a rake of 8 mk4 sized coaches.

[JasonB]

29 minutes ago, Noel said:

Often wondered what might happen if a leading coach or DVT derailed when being pushed at 100mph by a 201 (ie what are the fail safes, etc).

Have you got yourself a part time job working with the grim reaper over the Christmas, Noel? 

[Dempsey]

One of my favourite classes after the 071. I personally look forward to the new releases and am extremely happy with my fleet of the class. 

[Bob229]

6 hours ago, irishthump said:

Seriously? The 201 is a very high-spec and a wonderful runner. I'd love to hear a full list of these "obvious inaccuracies".

The 201 is the only MM loco that I don't have more than one of, and I always regretted it!

Next year you will have the option to add more 201 

[irishthump]

55 minutes ago, Bob229 said:

Next year you will have the option to add more 201 

I’ll take it!

[Ironroad]

8 hours ago, murphaph said:

I thought PM released his own 201 precisely because he wasn't entirely happy with the Lima one and set out to improve on the details. I like my ones very much and would buy more of they were released in the original livery, which is the only one I ever intend modelling. I'm not really sure how much they could be improved upon. The mechanism is good. Cab interior detailing can be done by the modeller. The lighting could be better with the ability to independently control the tail lights and so on but again, with a bit of know how this can be tackled by the modeller.

I'm not  rivet counter though, so perhaps there are some glaring anomalies with the model that I have never noticed.

Agreed, I'm not a rivet counter either and I would also like to understand what the alleged deficiencies are.

The original Lima 201 commissioned by Paddy Murphy was a landmark development as it was the very first real  RTR model model of an Irish locomotive. It was very acceptable at the time and after stocks at retail stores cleared out it sold for astronomical prices on EBAY until the release of the new version in 2011. However,  the decision to produce a revamped model surprised me as the the field was open to Paddy and he might have opted to fill other gaps that existed, EG an A class. We can only guess at his thinking. The attached article published in 2008 may give some insight. http://www.murphymodels.com/files/Murphy_Models_Interview_MR120_052-054.pdf. Note that Hornby had acquired the assets of Lima including their tooling, but did the tooling for the 201 belong to MM and what happened to it. Also note that in 2005 a small number of 201s (in NIR livery) appeared on the market under the brand name AGO, supposedly produced from parts purchased from the liquidators of LIMA. How did that happen if Hornby bought the assets? Was this an infringement of copyright? So perhaps Paddy being true to what he said in 2008 produced a vastly upgraded model in response to a demand that seemed very obvious and he was probably able to rely to some extent on work and research already done for the first model but he may also have wanted to to circumvent or snooker any further use of the original tooling or parts.

This was a quality model and is worthy of a rerun.  

 

[DJ Dangerous]

23 hours ago, connollystn said:

Not a fan of the Murpby Models 201. Doesn't capture the character of the prototype due to obvious inaccuraracies. Consodering what the guys at I.R.M. did with the A class would much prefer them to do an up-to-date mode of the 201(new).

Eh???

[RedRich]

7 hours ago, JasonB said:

Have you got yourself a part time job working with the grim reaper over the Christmas, Noel? 

Jaysus Jason I'm having visions of  both of them standing lineside with scythes. Capes and skirts blown up revealing festive bloomers.

I need to pour a Bushmills.

Rich

[JasonB]

21 minutes ago, RedRich said:

Jaysus Jason I'm having visions of  both of them standing lineside with scythes. Capes and skirts blown up revealing festive bloomers.

I need to pour a Bushmills.

Rich

Thanks for that, Rich. I won't be able to sleep tonight.  

[Westcorkrailway]

2 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Agreed, I'm not a rivet counter either and I would also like to understand what the alleged deficiencies are.

The original Lima 201 commissioned by Paddy Murphy was a landmark development as it was the very first real  RTR model model of an Irish locomotive. It was very acceptable at the time and after stocks at retail stores cleared out it sold for astronomical prices on EBAY until the release of the new version in 2011. However,  the decision to produce a revamped model surprised me as the the field was open to Paddy and he might have opted to fill other gaps that existed, EG an A class. We can only guess at his thinking. The attached article published in 2008 may give some insight. http://www.murphymodels.com/files/Murphy_Models_Interview_MR120_052-054.pdf. Note that Hornby had acquired the assets of Lima including their tooling, but did the tooling for the 201 belong to MM and what happened to it. Also note that in 2005 a small number of 201s (in NIR livery) appeared on the market under the brand name AGO, supposedly produced from parts purchased from the liquidators of LIMA. How did that happen if Hornby bought the assets? Was this an infringement of copyright? So perhaps Paddy being true to what he said in 2008 produced a vastly upgraded model in response to a demand that seemed very obvious and he was probably able to rely to some extent on work and research already done for the first model but he may also have wanted to to circumvent or snooker any further use of the original tooling or parts.

This was a quality model and is worthy of a rerun.  

 

I see paddy as really doing only the GM stuff. You could make an argument at that time silverfox covered the other major areas like A, C, Sulzer. Add in the fact multiple liveries had been introduced since lima 201 loco, as well at murphy’s standerd of quality going up massive in 10 years. I suppose it’s understandable that we have had 3 1/2 runs of the 201 from Lima/MM over the past 20 years

[Noel]

20 hours ago, JasonB said:

Have you got yourself a part time job working with the grim reaper over the Christmas, Noel? 

No, just spent 3 hours sitting in the coach right behind the DVT on Thursday, going a good lick over some uneven track work as the suspension was working overtime and I could see the DVT bouncing a lot, knowing 3200hp was pushing 8 coaches ahead of it. It just crossed my mind as we were doing 100mph at the time. With steel monocoque coach bodies probably quite able to handle a derailment, unless passing a bridge at the time.  

[Georgeconna]

I've been running the MK.2 recently. Like others no end of trouble with the coupling hooks, Springs too soft in the which tend to bounce the coupling off of each other.

Also some Irish locos, 201 included ,the coupling hooks droop and go under the rolling stick tension locks causing derailments when pushing stock. The 201 Coupling set up I would expect was a difficult thing to design and have it sit right.

I have 201 running around there, started to stutter and stall but a quick picks ups and wheel clean job oxo lovely runner.

[Colin_McLeod]

On 9/12/2021 at 8:56 PM, connollystn said:

Not a fan of the Murpby Models 201. Doesn't capture the character of the prototype due to obvious inaccuraracies.

Direct question to @connollystn

What are the inaccuracies?  I don't see any "obvious inaccuracies"

[railfan222]

There are indeed a number of modelling inaccuracies on the Murphy Models 201s:

1: NIR 208 and 209 in NIR blue: The marker lights on the real life 208 and 209 when they were blue were the same original marker lights as the other IE 201s. The 2014 released models of 208 and 209 in NIR blue show the locos with the rectangle shaped LED markers which first appeared on all 201s (including 208 and 209) from 2000 onwards with the last 201 upgraded to have rectangle shaped LED markers in 2003.

Also inaccurate on Murphy Models 208 & 209 is the postion of the AAR socket for push-pull working and multiple loco working. When all IE and NIR 201s were delivered, the AAR socket used to be down on the skirt. From 1996-1997 all 201s had the AAR socket re-positioned to just next to the headlight. I am pretty sure 208 and 209 only ever got their AAR sockets re-positioned from the skirt to right beside the headlight when the 2 NIR locos were repainted from NIR blue into the IE/NIR Enterprise livery.

2: The models of 233 incorrectly show her with purple thumbnails instead of the current pink thumbnails. Of interest is that the pink thumbnails of the original Enterprise  livery was applied to both the  Enterprise 201s and the Standard Class De Detrich coaches.

3: Murphy Models MM0201 was released with her sockets right next to the headlights. In real life 201 and 204 still have their sockets (the AARs) still in the original postion.

 

Murphy Models have to date released models of the 201s made by Kader Holdings with some locos with their footsteps below the marker lights open and some closed. Aswell as with the rectangle shaped LED marker lights. The different marker lights worn by the 201s is as follows.

 

1: Original 1994 marker lights. Between 2000-2003 these were replaced with LED markers.

2: Rectangle shaped marker LED lights: These started to appear on all IE and NIR locos from 2000 onwards.

3: Oval shaped LED markers: These appeared for the first time in 2014 when 8209 came out of Inchicore. The oval shaped marker lights began to be put on all IE and NIR 201s between 2014-2018 with 229 being the last to get the oval shaped LED markers.

 

Regards Kian O'Leary.

[irishthump]

On 11/12/2021 at 11:56 AM, Georgeconna said:

 

I have 201 running around there, started to stutter and stall but a quick picks ups and wheel clean job oxo lovely runner.

That’s the only niggle I ever had with the 201’s, the fact that they only pick-up power from 4 axles. The middle ones have no contact strips.

[murphaph]

Would it really make any difference when the bogies themselves are so far apart? If all 4 left or right rail contacts are interrupted simultaneously then I would argue the problem is with the track. If a long co co (electrically a Bo Bo) stalls then what hope has a 0-4-0 on the same track?

 

[irishthump]

18 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Would it really make any difference when the bogies themselves are so far apart? If all 4 left or right rail contacts are interrupted simultaneously then I would argue the problem is with the track. If a long co co (electrically a Bo Bo) stalls then what hope has a 0-4-0 on the same track?

 

Probably not much difference, unless you’re running over a long crossover or yard ladder with insulfrog points.

But it’s surprising there isn’t 6 wheel pick up. Many European HO models have unpowered centre axles but still pickup from all 6 wheel sets. Probably more to do with with them usually having friction tyres…..

[Eagles]

I was surprised that Paddy Murphy changed manufacturer for the 201s locomotives as Bachmann produced the 071s  they are outstanding quality model rail magazine  review of the 071s they were top quality as Bachmann produce top quality products if Bachmann produced the 201s locomotive they would be better detail as the contract manufacturer to Murphy models

[WRENNEIRE]

Bachmann did not produce the 071's
Produced by Murphy Models who used a different manufacturer

[DJ Dangerous]

On 25/12/2021 at 11:51 PM, railfan222 said:

There are indeed a number of modelling inaccuracies on the Murphy Models 201s:

1: NIR 208 and 209 in NIR blue: The marker lights on the real life 208 and 209 when they were blue were the same original marker lights as the other IE 201s. The 2014 released models of 208 and 209 in NIR blue show the locos with the rectangle shaped LED markers which first appeared on all 201s (including 208 and 209) from 2000 onwards with the last 201 upgraded to have rectangle shaped LED markers in 2003.

Also inaccurate on Murphy Models 208 & 209 is the postion of the AAR socket for push-pull working and multiple loco working. When all IE and NIR 201s were delivered, the AAR socket used to be down on the skirt. From 1996-1997 all 201s had the AAR socket re-positioned to just next to the headlight. I am pretty sure 208 and 209 only ever got their AAR sockets re-positioned from the skirt to right beside the headlight when the 2 NIR locos were repainted from NIR blue into the IE/NIR Enterprise livery.

2: The models of 233 incorrectly show her with purple thumbnails instead of the current pink thumbnails. Of interest is that the pink thumbnails of the original Enterprise  livery was applied to both the  Enterprise 201s and the Standard Class De Detrich coaches.

3: Murphy Models MM0201 was released with her sockets right next to the headlights. In real life 201 and 204 still have their sockets (the AARs) still in the original postion.

 

Murphy Models have to date released models of the 201s made by Kader Holdings with some locos with their footsteps below the marker lights open and some closed. Aswell as with the rectangle shaped LED marker lights. The different marker lights worn by the 201s is as follows.

 

1: Original 1994 marker lights. Between 2000-2003 these were replaced with LED markers.

2: Rectangle shaped marker LED lights: These started to appear on all IE and NIR locos from 2000 onwards.

3: Oval shaped LED markers: These appeared for the first time in 2014 when 8209 came out of Inchicore. The oval shaped marker lights began to be put on all IE and NIR 201s between 2014-2018 with 229 being the last to get the oval shaped LED markers.

 

Regards Kian O'Leary.

Excellent information, but I would hardly consider any of those niggles as "obvious", and I cannot see how they leave a model which fails to capture the character of the prototype. The MM 201 was and is an awesome model.

[murphaph]

I tend to agree. Where a particular socket was at a particular point in the life of a particular loco is something that just doesn't interest me. It's nice when manufacturers go the extra mile but I would not like to be paying for all the tiny tooling differences between particular locos at different stages in their lives. There's just too much variation to model sometimes and remain cost effective. The guts of the 201 are sound. It has good mechanics and it captures the angles and dimensions of the prototype. The liveries are clean and crisply applied. I don't think there's an awful lot that could be done much better.